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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Do you work your layouts to a timetable, or schedule of some kind, or do you just watch the trains go round?.
There's no right answer to this. Some like to run their trains in such a way that they get to see different trains go by. Others make up complicated timetables which they adhere to, with programmed passenger services stopping at stations and freights fitted in between, as a real railway would work.
In my restricted space, I wanted to have the ability to let the trains do lap after lap and "stretch their legs". I also wanted to see local trains meeting expresses at a station, and goods trains arriving in a yard to be shunted and sorted.
I also wanted to have the ability to do engine changes for both passenger and goods trains, mainly so I could represent the working at a border station. At the moment I can't do this very well as I have yet to build my planned extension with engine shed facilities.
Currently my preferred way of operating is to run a simple sequence:
Local passenger train runs and stops at station. Express passenger train runs and stops at station. Freight loco makes up a train in the yard and then pulls out onto main line Freight train arrives back in yard and shunts different wagons into sidings. Local passenger train runs and stops at station Light freight loco takes short freight train to station, drops/collects 1/2 wagons off at goods shed. Express passenger train leaves station.
This sequence is not cast in stone, but it represents a typical running session which takes about half an hour to complete. How many laps the trains do between starting and stopping determines how much sitting and watching I do! |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 26/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 1,423 Location: Brisbane, QLD
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I don't actually have a layout at the moment, but...
When I set up a wooden-floor-bahn, I like to create the longest route I can, and (basically) I like to "watch the trains go round and round" No timetables!
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Cheers, Damon |
 1 user liked this useful post by DamonKelly
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Joined: 04/11/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,652 Location: New Zealand
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Lord Macca New Zealand branch of Clan Donald.
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 1 user liked this useful post by Macfire
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Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
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Like to watch and operate and hope to do something like Ray (Some day). My time table is "I will be out with the trains" as often as I can. Currently it is slow construction progress but I leave it in a state that I can run and change trains. N |
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around |
 1 user liked this useful post by nevw
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand
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 1 user liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
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Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,609 Location: Australia
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After all the order of my working day, I like to watch the trains stop and start according to a throw of the virtual dice...  Obviously, long trains can't go into short sidings  but otherwise it is random... |
Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com |
 1 user liked this useful post by xxup
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Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 8,244 Location: Montreal, QC
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With over 60 loks and trainsets, there is almost an unlimited number of consists that I can build to run on my layout when it is set up. Normally, I might have two express trains (Intercity) or two international trains running. Other times, it may be a regional or local push-pull consist or two. Same with freights, it can either be an international unit train, or a domestic assorted freight train. I don't do much shunting because the layout is not set up for that. May favorites probably still are the Roco IC2000 and EWIV Intercities pulled by my collection of Hag, Roco and Maerklin Re 460s. I may have one or two sidings so that I can change the train consists, ie replace the IC2000 by the CNL or EN for night operation.
Regards
Mike C
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 1 user liked this useful post by mike c
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Joined: 26/11/2006(UTC) Posts: 507 Location: Atlanta, Georgia
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Ray, I have a timetable similar to yours. But I voted combination since some days I just like to watch 'em run around randomly. |
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 1 user liked this useful post by trainbuff
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Joined: 15/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,591 Location: Pennsylvania
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I have no layout, but still cannot understand why people want to "work" on their hobby/toys. running timetables and waybill cards takes the enjoyment out of the hobby _ I am referring to these "hardcore" model railroaders - so often written about in the pages of magazines like the US magazine Model Railroader. these are the kinds that go so far as to have one person act as a dispatcher and use phones or 2-way radios, calling out train orders. what do these people do when a train operator buddy misses a deadline in a group operating session (or misses them many times)? do they fire their friend? If one of the operators derails his train badly or collides with another train, are there any groups that kick him out because he (or his MRR avatar) is now considered dead? why not add train engineers that are high on pot? amtrak has their share. or texting while train driving - there are more than a few of those going on too. how about labor unrest like strikes, picketing, and grievances for real or perceived wrongs on the part of the layout owner? maybe some nails thrown out in the homeowner's (read that management/supervision) parking lot by a disgruntled rail crew? I suppose my point is that the people who really want to bring realism to their toy train layout by following "strict" operating rules don't even come close to real life (I'm not certain of this, but I think they really want to emmulate real life with their toy trains). I don't have a problem with loose rules or timetables.
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 1 user liked this useful post by jonquinn
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Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta
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Random.. but only because I have no proper layout at the moment. In the future I might run a schedule if I want the trains to run automatically - but only if it is managed automatically through computer. |
Now collecting C-Sine models. |
 1 user liked this useful post by TimR
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Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC) Posts: 20,296 Location: Scotland
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Hi Ray,
I voted for Random running.
With the stage the layout is at,I'm happy just to see a couple of trains and some wagons/coaches running.
Ian.
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 1 user liked this useful post by Ian555
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Joined: 01/01/2008(UTC) Posts: 874 Location: Scotland
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I can understand people using a timetable, esp. if they are running a complex layout with multiple operators. However, as a lone operator at exhibitions, I tend to tailor my running to the audience (I can only accommodate up to eight or nine trains anyway.) At home I only run test trains by tail chasing through all possible routes.
When I get round to building my N scale layout, I will have two double track main lines, one set for tail chasers and one set for operations. However, I am getting to be of a mind that model railways are for sharing and here I have no-one to share with, so I am having second thoughts about what to do with my N scale stuff (let alone my small amount of HO of sundry makes, including a recently purchased Hornby live steamer). |
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 1 user liked this useful post by Breitenfurt
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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jonquinn wrote:I have no layout, but still cannot understand why people want to "work" on their hobby/toys. running timetables and waybill cards takes the enjoyment out of the hobby _ I am referring to these "hardcore" model railroaders - so often written about in the pages of magazines like the US magazine Model Railroader. these are the kinds that go so far as to have one person act as a dispatcher and use phones or 2-way radios, calling out train orders. what do these people do when a train operator buddy misses a deadline in a group operating session (or misses them many times)? do they fire their friend? If one of the operators derails his train badly or collides with another train, are there any groups that kick him out because he (or his MRR avatar) is now considered dead? why not add train engineers that are high on pot? amtrak has their share. or texting while train driving - there are more than a few of those going on too. how about labor unrest like strikes, picketing, and grievances for real or perceived wrongs on the part of the layout owner? maybe some nails thrown out in the homeowner's (read that management/supervision) parking lot by a disgruntled rail crew? I suppose my point is that the people who really want to bring realism to their toy train layout by following "strict" operating rules don't even come close to real life (I'm not certain of this, but I think they really want to emmulate real life with their toy trains). I don't have a problem with loose rules or timetables. Jon, I totally agree with you. When your hobby comes so close to looking like a real job, is it still fun? |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 13/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 642
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I had to improve the results for timetabled running, so I hit "combination"... |
Fredrik.
*ECoS 2 + ECoSDetector + SwitchPilot + ECoSTerminal; *Z21 + Loconet + Digikeijs + MGP; **CS3+ + CdB (** coming soon...)
WWW: MJ-fjärren |
 1 user liked this useful post by Fredrik
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Joined: 01/01/2007(UTC) Posts: 643 Location: Alberta
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That is one of the things I like about this forum you guys are not wrapped up in the operations stuff. Honestly if there was a forum section for it I would probably ignore it. I like the idea of maybe running a freight train around the layout picking up and dropping off cars at different industries. Maybe play around with shunting in a yard. My layout will not be modeled after a certain railway during a specific time period. My layout will be a showcase for whatever model I decide to purchase.
I tried to join the local model train club last year (2 rail DCC) and I was invited to a members house to see his layout. He had 2 levels sprawled across half his basement. Lots of track but about 1 square foot had scenery. He had it all set up for operations and gave me a locomotive and a build card. I set out to gather my train. It was kind of neat at first since he had the cars set up so at each station you had to do shunting to get your car out of a bunch of others. It got tedious and I was eager to just get finished. It was a lot of work. You need to have a very large layout to do the operations stuff and the more operators the bigger the layout needs to be. I decided that was not what I wanted out of my hobby.
Cheers... Darren
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 1 user liked this useful post by Darren W
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Joined: 19/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 207 Location: Durango, Colorado
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Uh-oh! I'm one of the guys who is beginning to like some operational aspects. I don't think I care for some of its "nit-picky" aspects but the general goals of getting trains from "A" to "B", making up new consists, etc. appeal to me.
Initially, I was fascinated by watching 2 or 3 trains continually run around a layout but my timespan for being engrossed in this is shrinking. I still love it - but only for short periods. I have also recently gotten involved with someone's HO 2-rail DCC operational layout - it is a huge one. Actually, I (and others) am helping to build it and we recently started operations on a monthly basis as a reward. I used to like double track all around so at least two trains could be running continuously but I find having single track segments adds a lot of fun. It makes one much more involved in getting the trains around the layout.
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 1 user liked this useful post by Writhdar
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Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 300 Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
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Hello,
I am only now working on my first permanent layout in over thirty five years. However the yearly Christmas floor bahns, as well as couple of table bahns which lasted a year or two, have provided some important themes that are now part of my layout plan:
1) I am still mesmerized by dual oval mainline train watching. The addition of multiple sidings, which can create an automated sequence of trains on each mainline simply adds to the pleasure.
2) I like crossings and other danger points that require human intervention with the signals and switches. This has become an important aspect of my branch lines. However, I always set up the branch line so that all but one train can be put on a siding, thus allowing a third line to run in auto pilot when I'm in the mood just to watch.
3) I can understand why some folks like to play with train composition and model the operations of a real RR. Unfortunately, it's not my thing. I "Play" with my trains, I don't run them.
4) I like to change track layouts. I get bored quickly with the same layout and always want to make changes. Hence why I loved M-Track as a kid and now am a devoted convert to C-Track. My permanent layout's plan is based upon a three level modular concept. The top level is a traditional MRR layout with scenery. The two lower levels are simple easy access shelves, which hopefully will provide a lifetime of layout changes.
Sorry, I know I went a little off topic!
Bye, |
Rob Mackenrode Wende Bahn |
 1 user liked this useful post by rrf
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Joined: 23/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,828 Location: Sydney, Australia
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My fiendish plan is to have two very similar but not identical trains running in opposite directions on the figure-eight main line, and watch them meet and pass each other for a while. Then I sideline them and run another pair and so on. The next stage of operational development is to devise an Excel spreadsheet with a list of all possible trains and a random function to select which pair to run next. Did that make sense to anyone? |
Gary Z Scale "Never let the prototype get in the way of a good layout" |
 1 user liked this useful post by ozzman
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Joined: 30/09/2005(UTC) Posts: 904 Location: bologna, BO
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I don't have a timetable. But I have a train list and, everytime I play with trains, I choose a country and an era.. and compose trains following this list. This is because I love to compose trains using my rolling stock.
For example: 2301 is a direct train and must be composed by a locomotive, a 1/2 class coach, and two 2nd class coaches. And, when it is Germany era IV I use a 110 with three UIC-X, in French Era V I use BB22200 and USI cars, and so on.
Pietro
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 1 user liked this useful post by al_pignolo
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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al_pignolo wrote:I don't have a timetable. But I have a train list and, everytime I play with trains, I choose a country and an era.. and compose trains following this list. This is because I love to compose trains using my rolling stock.
For example: 2301 is a direct train and must be composed by a locomotive, a 1/2 class coach, and two 2nd class coaches. And, when it is Germany era IV I use a 110 with three UIC-X, in French Era V I use BB22200 and USI cars, and so on.
Pietro Sounds like a good system, Pietro. |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 09/02/2008(UTC) Posts: 972 Location: North Wiltshire
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I suppose I run mine in a specific order,based priimarily on the fact that I currently have a double track mainline with a visible and a shadow station.
On each track there is always a train running and two waiting (one in each station) so in total (and when everything is working) there should be two running and four waiting.
When I've finished this level I'll use the same principal with the upper level, which will also be double track. As it will be more open to view I hope to use blocks and signals and two stations (and maybe a hidden one, too!)
Pete |
Living on Earth is expensive, but it does include a free trip around the sun every year.
Z Scale is great - where's me glasses? |
 1 user liked this useful post by Nightowl4933
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Joined: 30/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 71 Location: Amsterdam
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It appears that I'm the first one who votes (and does) timetabled operation. I do this some ten years now, utilising computer supported control. On my layout the majority of trains is passenger trains. The timetable 2009-2010 is 580 scheduled trainmoves per day. A number of trains however does not circulate every day. Each train move is described by a plan line. While operating the layout a plan line can be changed, for example to give a train a different route. Plan lines are executed when the train(number) is present or expected at on start track of the train move in the minute before scheduled departure. In addition the operator can at any time instruct the computer to carry out any train movement, for example an unscheduled train move.  I have added a screen shot of the user interface (is in dutch language). The window at bottom right is the view on the timetable. The window in the middle shows one plan line, allowing to edit the line. Notive that the operator cannot change the days/time, the traintype or the sequence number.
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 1 user liked this useful post by Tdl
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Joined: 08/05/2009(UTC) Posts: 590 Location: Sydney
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I voted random. However I'm considering Windigipet within the next year, when I expand my layout. And I would like see the posibilities it will give. |
Regards Kenneth
CS1 update - K & C tracks - German Era 3B & 4, with some Swiss and Austrian visitors. - My Layout |
 1 user liked this useful post by Piggy
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Tdl wrote:It appears that I'm the first one who votes (and does) timetabled operation. I do this some ten years now, utilising computer supported control. On my layout the majority of trains is passenger trains. The timetable 2009-2010 is 580 scheduled trainmoves per day. A number of trains however does not circulate every day. Each train move is described by a plan line. While operating the layout a plan line can be changed, for example to give a train a different route. Plan lines are executed when the train(number) is present or expected at on start track of the train move in the minute before scheduled departure. In addition the operator can at any time instruct the computer to carry out any train movement, for example an unscheduled train mover or shunting.
Willem, thanks for that. I was beginning to think no-one did timetabled operation! In your last statement you imply that the unscheduled shunting was done by the computer. Is that right, or did I read it wrong? I can't see how that would work. |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 30/03/2006(UTC) Posts: 71 Location: Amsterdam
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Ray,
shunting train moves are included in the procesplan. However the computer program cannot control a train that moves into an occupied track, because it does not know where to halt. Hence such train moves are halted at the signal that cover the occupied track. From there onwards the train must be moved by a human engineer. My program can handle scheduled and unscheduled moves.
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 1 user liked this useful post by Tdl
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Tdl wrote:Ray,
shunting train moves are included in the procesplan. However the computer program cannot control a train that moves into an occupied track, because it does know where to halt. Hence such train moves are halted at the signal that cover the occupied track. From there onwards the train must be moved by a human engineer. My program can handle scheduled and unscheduled moves. That makes pefect sense. Thanks Willem! |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 08/04/2007(UTC) Posts: 25 Location: Jackson, WI
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Interesting question. It depends on what you mean by timetable, I guess. When I operate, I run the trains in a sequence that resembles a prototype schedule in that I have a mix of local passenger trains, D trains, freights, etc., in what I think is a plausible order, but I don't use a clock. I'll just run through as much of the schedule as I care to and then stop. Next time, I start at that point.
T.
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 1 user liked this useful post by Turbo T Terry
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Turbo T Terry wrote:Interesting question. It depends on what you mean by timetable, I guess. When I operate, I run the trains in a sequence that resembles a prototype schedule in that I have a mix of local passenger trains, D trains, freights, etc., in what I think is a plausible order, but I don't use a clock. I'll just run through as much of the schedule as I care to and then stop. Next time, I start at that point.
T. Hi Terry, I would class that as simple timetabled operation. There are various ways to tackle the timing of a schedule when following a timetable. Some use a real time clock, others use an accelerated clock so that they don't have to wait hours between trains. The easiest option, in my opinion, is to just jump to the next item on the schedule. This is what I do, and from the sound of it, so do you. At least there is a semblance of order imposed on the running of the trains, and gives one the feeling of having a realistic railway service, if only in one's imagination. |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,061
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I am random running as I work on layout development. I have also tried setting up a timetable using Excel but haven't been able to figure a way to do it that will allow me to chart the train movements. I have printed out a days worth of SBB passenger trains running between Arth Goldau and Luzerne so that I have the data but no scheduling tool. Someday I would like to run with computer scheduling and control but not at the time being.
Does anyone know of a simple scheduling tool?
Thanks, Roger |
Modeling Immensee, mile/km 0 on the Gottard. SBB Era V.
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 1 user liked this useful post by rbw993
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Joined: 27/07/2009(UTC) Posts: 5,862 Location: Leesburg,VA.USA
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Hi all, I voted for random too. I still operate with analog control and on my new layout I can operate 5/6 trains with signal block control. I have an upper and a lower level which are separated electrically for both track and overhead operation. If 2 two trains are running at the same time on the lower level where the yards are and I have an open track at the main station I can use a steam or diesel Lok to make up a new freight train from the cars already in the yards. I quite enjoy that. Cheers! Peter
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 1 user liked this useful post by petestra
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Joined: 23/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,828 Location: Sydney, Australia
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rbw993 wrote:Does anyone know of a simple scheduling tool?
Thanks, Roger Would MS Project work? It's all about scheduling of elements. |
Gary Z Scale "Never let the prototype get in the way of a good layout" |
 1 user liked this useful post by ozzman
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Joined: 26/11/2006(UTC) Posts: 507 Location: Atlanta, Georgia
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Tdl wrote:It appears that I'm the first one who votes (and does) timetabled operation. I do this some ten years now, utilising computer supported control. On my layout the majority of trains is passenger trains. The timetable 2009-2010 is 580 scheduled trainmoves per day. A number of trains however does not circulate every day. Each train move is described by a plan line. While operating the layout a plan line can be changed, for example to give a train a different route. Plan lines are executed when the train(number) is present or expected at on start track of the train move in the minute before scheduled departure. In addition the operator can at any time instruct the computer to carry out any train movement, for example an unscheduled train move. ...
I have added a screen shot of the user interface (is in dutch language). The window at bottom right is the view on the timetable. The window in the middle shows one plan line, allowing to edit the line. Notive that the operator cannot change the days/time, the traintype or the sequence number. TDL, That's a nice screen shot. What software do you use? I'm amazed at the results of this poll. There is so much knowledge on this forum about computers and control stations, signals and sensors, how prototypical trains look and operate, that I would have expected the votes to reflect more realistic operations than random running. Interesting. |
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 1 user liked this useful post by trainbuff
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Joined: 01/01/2007(UTC) Posts: 643 Location: Alberta
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I guess there may be a need for a definition of working trains to a timetable. There are members that have very nice automated layout control and run trains to a timetable set up within.
This is different to running with train operations where it is manual control of each locomotive by a user who builds the train as per a card system and instructions from a dispather. These operating sessions are meant to simulate real railraod traffic and can include a half dozen or more users all operating at the same time according to a timetable and instruction set out by the dispatcher.
There are different ways you can run a train to a timetable/schedule both with very different focus.
Cheers... Darren
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 1 user liked this useful post by Darren W
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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,871 Location: Gibraltar, Europe
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Darren Watalla wrote:I guess there may be a need for a definition of working trains to a timetable. There are members that have very nice automated layout control and run trains to a timetable set up within.
This is different to running with train operations where it is manual control of each locomotive by a user who builds the train as per a card system and instructions from a dispather. These operating sessions are meant to simulate real railraod traffic and can include a half dozen or more users all operating at the same time according to a timetable and instruction set out by the dispatcher.
There are different ways you can run a train to a timetable/schedule both with very different focus.
Cheers... Darren Yes, that is true. Nevertheless, if trains run at certain times, or in a certain sequence, defined by some kind of document which can be defined as a timetable, for the purposes of the poll I would say it is timetabled operation, irrespective of whether the actual trains are being run by people or by a computer. I concede that the experience can be very different to the operator. |
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
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Joined: 19/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,061
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ozzman wrote:rbw993 wrote:Does anyone know of a simple scheduling tool?
Thanks, Roger Would MS Project work? It's all about scheduling of elements. It might Gary. Unfortunately I don't have it. I could buy Rairoad & Co. Traincontroller for the same price! Regards, Roger |
Modeling Immensee, mile/km 0 on the Gottard. SBB Era V.
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 1 user liked this useful post by rbw993
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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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Time tables ? Waybill cards ? ... GASP !!!  |
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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 1 user liked this useful post by john black
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Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,599 Location: Spain
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Running 'em REAL random (based on a real-time clock in a PLC). The timetable thing however is a good idea, and brings in lots of possiblities to play more with the trains. Especially in groups and clubs. It´s a nice possible addition to our hobby! |
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 1 user liked this useful post by hxmiesa
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Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,879 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
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Ray, My vote: Combination of above Preset and manually operation of shunting trains but no timetable.
John |
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 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
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Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC) Posts: 1,339 Location: USA
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Willem, can you tell us what software you are using? Regards, Thomas |
ETE  ECoS iTrain TouchCab C-Gleis German Era Id & IIIb USA Era IIIb SBB Era III SJ Era IV GC Era V |
 1 user liked this useful post by GSRR
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