 Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
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NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around |
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 Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC) Posts: 1,339 Location: USA
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nevw wrote:Thomas,
I think that I have purchased the same. I got a Board to digitise Marklin analogue Signals. They make all of the above also.
Look at this Ebay item and go to the store. You will see all there.
350164404734
I will PM with Email address.
Very reasonably priced.
Also see the Viessman equivalents half the price of M .
NN Nev, Thank you for the PM, have it all now. Regards, Thomas |
ETE  ECoS iTrain TouchCab C-Gleis German Era Id & IIIb USA Era IIIb SBB Era III SJ Era IV GC Era V |
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Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,218 Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
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Very Nice work Rutger. But what is the Spare Tire for?  |
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's. |
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Joined: 01/03/2009(UTC) Posts: 1,339 Location: USA
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TRUKO wrote:Hi Thomas,
Thanks for your reply! What i can do is ask my friend when he is running the next purchase cycle if he also is willing to sell towards the States, I'am not sure yet about that. For the moment he has done recently a purchase cycle for the Marklin 3Rail forum in the Netherlands and Belgium. He is doing it just as a "railroad friends gesture" so he's not commercial or so. (no website)
Tell me if your still interested.
Regards,
Rutger
Rutger, Thank you for the kind offer. Nev posted the information, and I was able to find the manufacturer's website, product list and pricelist. Fa. IEK mbH http://www.iek.dehttp://www.iek.de/elektr...e_schaltungen_und_zu.htmhttp://www.iek.de/Preise.htmadditionally these are available on ebay.de, as Nev posted. (dr.pannek) or (modellbahndiscount) http://stores.ebay.com/ModellbahndiscountRegards, Thomas |
ETE ECoS iTrain TouchCab C-Gleis German Era Id & IIIb USA Era IIIb SBB Era III SJ Era IV GC Era V |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Hi Thomas,
Ok, that's fine. Little remark: I've looked on the website but it is other hardware then I use. But if it works fine then it's Ok!
Regards,
Rutger |
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 Joined: 01/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 251 Location: Ontario, Canada
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TRUKO wrote:Hi Marklin fans, The first cross connection is there:  Hi Rutger, Can you explain what all the different colored wires are for? Just curious as I am starting wiring phase on my layout and want to learn more about this approach. I had only though of running red, brown, yellow (separate transformer) but you have something more complex going. Thanks! John
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Hi John,
I also learned this from other train modelers, so I decided to build direct from the start extra power lines. The colors I used are just the standard colors as they are available on the Dutch market. It's all 2,5mm/2 massive cupper wire
As follow:
- Yellow/Green - Brown = Red - Brown for normal drive current coming from the CS2
- Yellow/Green - Blue = separated transformer for all lights: houses, lantern, switch lights; so it's a "plus and min" wire. Coming from a non Marklin transformer.
- Yellow/Green - Black = spare set of wires for additional Boosters or other purposes in the future
Hope this makes sense for you?
Regards,
Rutger
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Joined: 01/03/2007(UTC) Posts: 251 Location: Ontario, Canada
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TRUKO wrote:Hi John,
I also learned this from other train modelers, so I decided to build direct from the start extra power lines. The colors I used are just the standard colors as they are available on the Dutch market. It's all 2,5mm/2 massive cupper wire
As follow:
- Yellow/Green - Brown = Red - Brown for normal drive current coming from the CS2
- Yellow/Green - Blue = separated transformer for all lights: houses, lantern, switch lights; so it's a "plus and min" wire. Coming from a non Marklin transformer.
- Yellow/Green - Black = spare set of wires for additional Boosters or other purposes in the future
Hope this makes sense for you?
Regards,
Rutger
Perfect sense :) I was a bit thrown off by all the different yellow/green but I see how it works now. Good planning. Now I just need to locate some 2mm wire here in various colors.
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Hello All, So, the Railspiral is on it's place. I guess that the declination is a little more than 3% but it should be manageable by the Loc's. when the electronics frame is open, it is possible to reach the Rail spiral from inside.  A few pieces of rails in place to check how it fits all together. Next is to make little borders to prevent the train fall from the Rail spiral.  Best regards, Rutger |
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Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
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Nice Neat Work Rutger, thanks for sharing.
NN |
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around |
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Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 3,023
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
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Nice work, neat spiral, my friend!
Cheers,
Ranjit |
Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital
_____________________________________________________________________________
#Get Vaccinated
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"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Hello Railroad friends, The Railspiral is ready, next step is to mount the rails on it and the start with the top plate.  Thanks for your reactions!! Regards, Rutger |
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Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 3,023
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
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Most of the time, spirals have "rounded" shape. Yours is very unusual with a "hexagonal" shape! Did you have a specific reason, or was it easier to cut the wood that way? I like the little border to prevent trains from falling. Keep up the good work, Rutger!
Cheers,
Ranjit |
Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital
_____________________________________________________________________________
#Get Vaccinated
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Ranjit wrote:Most of the time, spirals have "rounded" shape. Yours is very unusual with a "hexagonal" shape! Did you have a specific reason, or was it easier to cut the wood that way? I like the little border to prevent trains from falling. Keep up the good work, Rutger!
Cheers,
Ranjit Hi Ranjit, Thanks for your reply, appreciated! The reason I choose this design is: 1) it cost less material instead of using a lot of wood plates to get the circles of the same size out of it. 2) it is easier to cut the wood, you can make plenty of these hexagonal shapes 3) it is easy to build a large spiral, you can go on and on if you want. The idea comes from Rainer Lussi: http://www.stayathome.ch/gleiswendel.htmEnjoy! Regards, Rutger |
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 Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 841 Location: Lidingö, Sweden
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Hi Rutger,
Very nice spiral! It looks very well built.
I have a question. On 31 January 02:16:47 you have posted a picture showing track laid and then at 17:55:31 another picture where wooden edges have been added.
First a remark, the edges add to the stability and it reduces the risk that trains would fall to the floor in case de-railing, which is very good.
Second the question, when looking at how close to the edge of the board the track was laid in your earlier posting, I wonder if you have checked with long passenger coaches that they won't hit the wooden edges, added in the picture of the second posting?
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Western Pacific wrote:Hi Rutger,
Very nice spiral! It looks very well built.
I have a question. On 31 January 02:16:47 you have posted a picture showing track laid and then at 17:55:31 another picture where wooden edges have been added.
First a remark, the edges add to the stability and it reduces the risk that trains would fall to the floor in case de-railing, which is very good.
Second the question, when looking at how close to the edge of the board the track was laid in your earlier posting, I wonder if you have checked with long passenger coaches that they won't hit the wooden edges, added in the picture of the second posting?
Hi, Yes,I understand what you mean. It also keeps me busy so before I mounted the borders I did a test with a 'simulated' border:  There is approx. 4mm space between the coach and the border, a check on the Dutch forum learned that it should be enough. Regards, Rutger |
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Joined: 19/09/2009(UTC) Posts: 841 Location: Lidingö, Sweden
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TRUKO wrote:Hi, Yes,I understand what you mean. It also keeps me busy so before I mounted the borders I did a test with a 'simulated' border: There is approx. 4mm space between the coach and the border, a check on the Dutch forum learned that it should be enough. Regards, Rutger That clearance looks quite OK! And if your models are based on continental gauge, then it wouldn't be any problem in the future. I had an old layout where I had built everything for 24 cm coaches and it was quite a task to modify it to also allow 27 cm coaches. When I get to the building phase of my new layout I'll do lots of test similar to what your photo shows, even though I wouldn't use a "Schürzenwagen", which I believe your's is, based on the roof design. I'd have to use one of my Roco models of SJ A7 or B7 coaches since the Swedish gauge is larger than the continental and the models are also wider and taller than for instance a Eurofima coach - as they should be. I'll look forward to read more about your layout in the future.
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Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA
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Very nice work. I do not want to sound negative but it seems to be to me an allfull lot
of exacting work that can be accomplished much easier with wood. What are the benefits with using metal? Solid yes, but no more permanent in a household environment.
Now, I understand we each have our own way of doing things so please let me know what your goals are.
Thanks,
Eric
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Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 3,023
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
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Thank you for the crisp and clear answers to my questions, Rutger.
Cheers,
Ranjit |
Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital
_____________________________________________________________________________
#Get Vaccinated
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Western Pacific wrote:That clearance looks quite OK! And if your models are based on continental gauge, then it wouldn't be any problem in the future. I had an old layout where I had built everything for 24 cm coaches and it was quite a task to modify it to also allow 27 cm coaches.
When I get to the building phase of my new layout I'll do lots of test similar to what your photo shows, even though I wouldn't use a "Schürzenwagen", which I believe your's is, based on the roof design. I'd have to use one of my Roco models of SJ A7 or B7 coaches since the Swedish gauge is larger than the continental and the models are also wider and taller than for instance a Eurofima coach - as they should be.
I'll look forward to read more about your layout in the future. Hi, If you look on my website on page http://www.derangeerbaan...el/02-personen-rijtuigen you're able to see which type it is. Watch my website, I will update it when I made progress, and also give a post on the forum. Best regards, Rutger |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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sudibarba wrote:Very nice work. I do not want to sound negative but it seems to be to me an allfull lot
of exacting work that can be accomplished much easier with wood. What are the benefits with using metal? Solid yes, but no more permanent in a household environment.
Now, I understand we each have our own way of doing things so please let me know what your goals are.
Thanks,
Eric Hello Eric, You're not negative but honest. So there are a few reasons that I choose for this way of building with metal: 1- Just fun, I can work well with wood, no problem, but did never do some welding and I'am fascinated by the process of welding. 2- it is cheaper if you do not taken into account the costs of the welding equipment 3- you have to do more design work before you can start, but if you want to make a large railplan with wood you have to design that also. In the end I think it's comparable. 4- the frame is less massive en you've more space for the trains 6- I have a garage were I can do the welding, and in the end a nice painted and clean frame enters the household environment. 5- bear in mind that you can change it by mounting new parts with bolts and nuts. I made now my second frame module, and I did already less design work and more of the top of my head, based on the experience of the first module. My feeling is that it is a little more work then making it from wood. Cheers, Rutger |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Ranjit wrote:Thank you for the crisp and clear answers to my questions, Rutger.
Cheers,
Ranjit You're welcome Ranjit!! Cheers, Rutger |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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The top plate is now ready regarding the main work. The measurement in Wintrack differs from reality, so I take over the real measurement.  In this picture you can see the creation of the transfer from the Rail spiral to the topplate.  More photo's on: http://www.derangeerbaan...e-module-3/10-bovenplaatHere you can see clearly the transition from the Rail spiral to the painted top plate  Regards, Rutger |
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Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
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Very impressive!
Since I'm planning to build a spiral myself, I was wondering:
"what do you consider the minimal radius in a spiral?"
I'm in doubt to use the 424.6 mm (K 2231) or the 553.9 mm (K2241) radius as a inner curve. Im a fraid a too narrow inner curve will result in a too steep gradient (> 3%) which can't be handled by a lo'with 6 30.2 cm coaches.
Whats your opinion?
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Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
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For the inner track on the spiral I used R2 (C Track 478mm Radius) and R3 on the outer (510mm R). I calculated the distances so as I had approximately 2.5% on the upward (Outer) track. I am having no problems. R3 with 95MM between levels will give you about 3%.
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NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around |
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Joined: 03/02/2010(UTC) Posts: 898 Location: So Cal
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nevw wrote:For the inner track on the spiral I used R2 (C Track 478mm Radius) and R3 on the outer (510mm R). I calculated the distances so as I had approximately 2.5% on the upward (Outer) track. I am having no problems. R3 with 95MM between levels will give you about 3%.
May I ask a question. If a 24172 or 24188 were added every 180 degrees of the circle to lengthen the run would that reduce the degree of incline? Robert |
HOac and Z scale running SBB/BLS Era IV-V
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Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
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Robert, I have a 500mm Straight between the end radii and have a 100-100mm Rise and about 2.5% on outer track.
1020 DIa gives 3213mm so overall circuit is 4200 and at 2.5% = 105 rise..
nn
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NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 809 Location: Leopold, Victoria
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Looking great Rutger, can't wait to see more photo's. |
Legless
Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track |
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Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
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I should have made some comments earlier.
My layout is Steel frame. 50X25mm Steel.
the table has 3 layers. the bottom purely item storage. middle layer Hidden Station 18 Sidings.
Topo . the running area. approx 3 sheets if 12.5 mm Plywood per layer.
we estimate the weight to be close to 300 Kilos.
4 M X 1.750m
It is awesome.
Nev
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NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Legless wrote:Looking great Rutger, can't wait to see more photo's. Hi Legless, thanks!! More photo's are available on my website: http://www.derangeerbaan.com/If you want to read this website in your own language, please copy the URL link from this website in http://translate.google.com/# and choose your language. Enjoy, Regards, Rutger |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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nevw wrote:I should have made some comments earlier.
My layout is Steel frame. 50X25mm Steel.
the table has 3 layers. the bottom purely item storage. middle layer Hidden Station 18 Sidings.
Topo . the running area. approx 3 sheets if 12.5 mm Plywood per layer.
we estimate the weight to be close to 300 Kilos.
4 M X 1.750m
It is awesome.
Nev
Hi Nev, That sound really big!!! do you have some photo's to share? I'm interested in your steel construction with the different layers. Regards, Rutger |
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Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
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NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Hi Nev, Wow, scanned quickly through your photo's, looks good...!! It's a big layout you're making there!! Regards, Rutger |
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Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 809 Location: Leopold, Victoria
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Hi Rutger,
been translating your site as soon as you made it available. So many thanks. |
Legless
Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Hello Train friends, Next stage of my plan is startet. Today I dismantled the testplan and started with the next extension.  More photo's can be find on: http://www.derangeerbaan...to-s/04-aanleg-niveau--1Tip: copy the link in google translate and you're able to read the site in your own language. Regards, Rutger |
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Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 809 Location: Leopold, Victoria
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Did you take the section outside before you used the grinder? |
Legless
Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Legless wrote:Did you take the section outside before you used the grinder? Preferably not, because this section exists of 2 parts to enable it going down via the stairs.... I will take a large blanket(s) to protect the floor and the surrounding and then use the grinder. It are just 2 small weldings.... Regards, Rutger |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Welded frame adjustment done today. Finally it was easy to remove the pipe.  Something different then changing your wooden frame....  Regards, Rutger |
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 Joined: 13/09/2005(UTC) Posts: 262 Location: Johannesburg
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Hi Rutger,
Whatch those fingers.......
Excellent job
Pieter |
Era I-V / HO / C-Track / MS2, CS2 & CS3 Z gauge. Insider
Member of Märklin Modellers Group |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Hello Friends, It takes a while but today i made some progress with level -1. The basis for the rails is ready!! A few small thing to finish and then I can start to build my railplan again!!  Regards, Rutger |
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Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
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Nice tidy work. It looks better at each showing.
N |
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around |
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 Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,771 Location: New Zealand
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Well, we know that there's one layout frame that will not warp!
Fantastic job.
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 Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 5,382 Location: Akershus, Norway
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I agree with the guys above, Rutger. |
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 809 Location: Leopold, Victoria
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You're got to love metal. |
Legless
Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Hi Gents,
Thanks for all your reactions!! Yes, this frame will not warp!!
But the frame has a little warp due to the welding....;-)))...so I've made
corrections in the wood to overcome the higth differences.
Regards,
Rutger |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Hi All, First test trip is a fact!!! From level -1 to level 0, no problem for the loc's.  Regards, Rutger |
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Joined: 20/07/2007(UTC) Posts: 809 Location: Leopold, Victoria
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Legless
Era's 1 to 111,C track,k track |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Hi All, It was a long time quit from my side, finally I've found tome again to continue. A new layout plan is made and already the 3rd frame module is welded. See for the new plan my (renewed) website: De Rangeerbaan See you! Rg. Rutger |
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Joined: 28/03/2009(UTC)
Posts: 93
Location: Netherlands
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Originally Posted by: Piper  Hi Rutger,
Whatch those fingers.......
Excellent job
Pieter Hi Pieter, You where right....I had an accident with the grinder last month... lucky me I still have all my fingers.... It was a good lesson... Rg. Rutger |
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