Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 431 Location: Stockton, CA
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Hello everyone... Ijust about spewed my morning coffee when I read this. Who knows what will happen, but one might argue it just makes sense: Both produce three rail trains -- and there's always a possibility of pre-war tinplate re-issues for those of us still hooked on O gauge trains. http://www.trains.com/ct...ult.aspx?c=a&id=2230Stay tuned... we could all be in for an interesting year ahead. Steve
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Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC) Posts: 5,193 Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
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It does make sense. The current Lionel owners have brought that brand back to prominence. We will have to wait and see. |
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Joined: 13/11/2008(UTC) Posts: 381 Location: Richmond, Virginia
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Joined: 20/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,300 Location: manteo, nc
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That might be a good thing! The two biggest names in toy trains together. The possibilities are mind boggling.
Bill |
Marklin HO and Z also Hornby 00 and US 2-rail |
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand
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Well, I could think of worse companies to own Marklin.
And, being owed by a US MRR company might serve to improve Marklin's exposure to the US market. And, we might see some more US models being produced by Marklin.
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Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC) Posts: 1,915 Location: Netherlands
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Germans see this not so positive. Reason because then everything goes to China.
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M-track with a CS2. |
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand
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Davy wrote:Germans see this not so positive. Reason because then everything goes to China.
That may well happen anyway, regardless of whoever owns Marklin.
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand
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Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 300 Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
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Bigdaddynz wrote:Davy wrote:Germans see this not so positive. Reason because then everything goes to China.
That may well happen anyway, regardless of whoever owns Marklin. Hello, Almost daily I learn more and more examples of quality control problems or just blatant criminal action by some of the manufacturers of products from China. The toy producers seem to be especially bad. From a news report yesterday I learned now that the Chinese government has banned lead in children's toys, the manufacturers have switched to using Cadmium, an even more toxic heavy metal! One would hope that eventually, the numerous toy companies who have outsourced the manufacture of their products and have been repeatedly embarrassed by recalls and other quality problems, would re-think their choice. In the mean time, I continue to spend a lot of money collecting finely made, high quality model railroad products from Germany and Hungary. (OK, I mean Marklin trains :-) I do not intend to become a collector of cheaply manufactured models of dubious quality. I believe that most Marklin customers feel the same way. I hope whomever buys the company understands this. Rob |
Rob Mackenrode Wende Bahn |
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Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,752 Location: Jakarta
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Anyone has any idea of the financial muscle behind Lionel? Any opinion on their ability to be able to be able to pull off this deal?? |
Now collecting C-Sine models. |
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Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC) Posts: 3,023 Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
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Hi All,
After all this time, I hope that Herr Pluta gets it "right"! Let's see what happens.
I am not sure if a tie up with Lionel is a good idea.
Cheers, Ranjit |
Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital _____________________________________________________________________________
#Get Vaccinated
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"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo "If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney |
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand
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TimR wrote:Anyone has any idea of the financial muscle behind Lionel? Any opinion on their ability to be able to be able to pull off this deal?? I know that Lionel is part owned by Neil Young, the rock singer.
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Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC) Posts: 3,023 Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
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Certainly like Neil Young's music, but I am still not sure about Lionel, the company!
Cheers, Ranjit |
Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital _____________________________________________________________________________
#Get Vaccinated
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"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo "If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney |
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Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC) Posts: 3,959 Location: Hellas (Athens)
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Bigdaddynz wrote:Well, I could think of worse companies to own Marklin.
And, being owed by a US MRR company might serve to improve Marklin's exposure to the US market. And, we might see some more US models being produced by Marklin. Lets hope for that David. |
An outsider. I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
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Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC) Posts: 3,023 Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
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I feel that an European MRR company, such as Märklin, owned and operated by an American MRR company, such as Lionel is not such a good fit and a good idea. Business cultures, marketing strategies, financial management, insolvency regulations and practices, laws, etc. are so very different. See what happened to Volvo.
Cheers, Ranjit |
Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital _____________________________________________________________________________
#Get Vaccinated
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"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero "Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo "If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney |
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Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC) Posts: 1,081 Location: Denmark
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Ranjit wrote:I feel that an European MRR company, such as Märklin, owned and operated by an American MRR company, such as Lionel is not such a good fit and a good idea. Business cultures, marketing strategies, financial management, insolvency regulations and practices, laws, etc. are so very different. See what happened to Volvo.
I agree. I would really hate to see the americans "take over". |
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Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,218 Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
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The thing I don't like about Lionel is that only the business part is in the US and everything is made in china. But I think the look and quality of there product is better now than it was in late 60's 70's and 80's. |
DT Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's. |
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Joined: 16/10/2001(UTC) Posts: 793 Location: Pittsburgh,
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rrf wrote: I do not intend to become a collector of cheaply manufactured models of dubious quality. I believe that most Marklin customers feel the same way. I hope whomever buys the company understands this. Rob, altough I comprehend your concern, for every defective product out of China there are thousand that are of good to exellent quality. Marklin manufatcuring is synonimus of good quality (altough with certain exceptions). However, I feel that it has to do with their philosophy (metal bodies, solid details etc.) more than where the particular model is made. Case in point, I own several made in china models by different makers (Rivarossi, Bachmann, Liliput) and they are quite different. In particular, I am quite satisfied with the Rivarossi locomotives. Of course, plastic body etc. but price/quality comparable to Marklin. I would not be to worried if M would make the trains in China, provided they continue with their phiosophy. As part of a multinational company with also shops in China, I can say that quality is good as long as you have a good QC system in place. |
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Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,
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I would like to see an American firm take over and push Marklin out of the culture problems and into an expanding market. As long as the products are of good quality and reliable it does not matter to me where they are made. Quality control should be in the hands of the owners. |
davemr |
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Joined: 01/01/2007(UTC) Posts: 643 Location: Alberta
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We could all get into another heated debate about Chinese made products however we just run in circles. Keep in mind that not all Chinese manufacturers are evil. There are just a few bad apples in every bunch.
Cheers... Darren
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Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC) Posts: 300 Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
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Darren Watalla wrote:We could all get into another heated debate about Chinese made products however we just run in circles. Keep in mind that not all Chinese manufacturers are evil. There are just a few bad apples in every bunch.
Cheers... Darren Hello, Darren is right. My previous post was more critical than it should have been. I did not intend to imply that all Chinese products are poorly made. In fact, I love my Lenovo Thinkpad. That said, there seem to be countless quality problems that the US toy companies have with their products manufactured in China. Toxic heavy metals is just one example. I wonder how many times a company must recall their products, before they start to second guess their decision to move manufacturing. |
Rob Mackenrode Wende Bahn |
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Joined: 26/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 40 Location: ,
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Joined: 03/05/2005(UTC) Posts: 213 Location: Washington state, USA
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I have a few of the Chinese made Lionel locos/cars, I could not tell the difference from the late 90s US made items if it did not say "made in China" on the bottom. The quality seems to be good overall, even on their lower end items, which is pretty much everything I have. I have a Lionel O gauge layout on the floor in my other spare room.
The O gauge market here in the US is extremely competetive, with Lionel constantly battling with MTH for sales. They are doing well, so it seems they know what they are doing. I don't think a little of that experience would hurt Marklin at all. In the end I think that it would be better for Lionel to buy them then no buyer at all.
-James
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Joined: 27/01/2007(UTC) Posts: 149 Location: ,
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You Tube Lionel Pennsylvania CC2 gives a good idea of their high end product They seem to make either real nice expensive scale items, sn 027 traditional line which is a bit of a compromise or more toy like cheaper products e Eurobahnfan wrote:Hello everyone... Ijust about spewed my morning coffee when I read this. Who knows what will happen, but one might argue it just makes sense: Both produce three rail trains -- and there's always a possibility of pre-war tinplate re-issues for those of us still hooked on O gauge trains. http://www.trains.com/ct...ult.aspx?c=a&id=2230Stay tuned... we could all be in for an interesting year ahead. Steve |
Carl |
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Joined: 23/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 384 Location: Alberta
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Hello All: This news is somewhat mind boggling, and I am not sure just how to react. On first impressions, my "spidey sense" is saying NOOOOOOO, but once I calmed down, I can sort of see the sense in it. The good thing about all of this is the fact that it is a train company doing the take over. It's not some consortium that only wants to make a buck. As some have said... it's going to make for an interesting year |
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ James Bannerman Give me steam, and how you feel can make it real, real as anything you've seen. (Peter Gabriel) |
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Joined: 21/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 382 Location: Simpsonville, SC
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I just received this from my hobby shop....
MARKLIN UPDATE Marklin profitable, says administrator; Lionel interested in purchase?
A reorganized Marklin is making money and has apparently drawn interest from the biggest name in American model railroading, while Faller creditors have approved the company's reorganization plan.
Märklin administrator Michael Pluta has been quoted recently in the German press as saying the company generated 7 million Euro ($10.2 million) in earnings from April-December 2009.
An article in the Südwest Presse newspaper in Ulm said the earnings figures come on 110 million Euro ($160.2 million) in sales during FY 2009. The earnings figure is before interest and taxes.
Additionally, the publication says a delegation from U.S. toy train manufacturer Lionel has visited Märklin's production facilities in Göppingen in Germany and Györ in Hungary, presumably with interest in purchasing the company.
Pluta, getting ready for Nuremberg's Spielwarenmesse Toy Fair in February, says he's under no pressure to get the company sold. In late 2009, he said a sale might be possible in 2010. He added Märklin is slated to release 400 new products this year.
(c) Model Retailer 2010
FALLER UPDATE Good news from Faller
Faller administrator Dr. Volker Grub issued a statement January 13 that creditors have unanimously approved the company's reorganization plan as presented.
Under the plan, manufacturing, administration, and sales will be concentrated in the headquarters town of Guetenbach. Creditors will receive a payment of 10% of their claim within one month; Faller will take responsibility for the pensions of its current employees; and the firm will make a payment to the pension insurance association. In addition, the ownership will invest a minimum of 500,000 Euro ($725,000) in the firm.
Dr. Grub stated that he believes the firm can operate successfully under this plan.
(c) Model Retailer 2010
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Never quit building. |
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Joined: 09/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 983 Location: ,
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Many thanks for ther above update which I can read without using my peculiar translator. I wonder if Faller is only paying creditors 10% or are they getting the rest due to them. |
davemr |
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Joined: 18/06/2005(UTC) Posts: 669 Location: El Sobrante, California
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Bigdaddynz wrote:TimR wrote:Anyone has any idea of the financial muscle behind Lionel? Any opinion on their ability to be able to be able to pull off this deal?? I know that Lionel is part owned by Neil Young, the rock singer. There is a fellow on the "West Coast" that goes by the name of Rod Stewart that has a certain affinity for model trains. Matter of fact his 5th floor condo is filled with a layout according to MRR mag. Gene
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Joined: 10/01/2010(UTC) Posts: 64 Location: Pennsylvania,USA
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hello everyone, I have a different opinion here. I think that some in the toy industry would like to see manufacturing being done in eastern europe or Germany instead of China for the same reasons as stated(lead,poor quality,etc). rumor has it that other toy makers in the US have started making things domesticly so lionel might be looking to get rid of China as the lead manufacturerand.Buying Marklin could help to enter other markets and possably open some doors in europe.This is just an opinion ...nothing based in fact here. Thanks
Kev |
Kev
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Joined: 05/12/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,996 Location: CA, USA
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I think it would be a good move to get it in the hands of a company that is not only in the MRR business, but not going under either. I believe lionel would do a good job of it all, the only angle I couldn't comment on is how globally minded they (or Marklin at the moment) are. Lionel is VERY american in terms of product and consumers, however there are many similarites between what they represent in the US, and Marklin in Germany. I don't think they would sabbatoge the brand or the product as it doesn't compete with what they are doing in O gauge. I also feel the product would benefit.
Chinese or German made, I just haven't been impressed with the last few Marklin purchases I've made. I haven't been discouraged either, but I can easily say the detail and functionality on Lionel's high end Chinese product are far superior to Marklin's german items I've bought as of late. Like it or not (I don't and strongly prefer German made) its a fact and I'd rather have the nice model. I just don't want to pay German prices for Chinese items.
It will be interesting to see what happens. |
SBB Era 2-5 |
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Joined: 18/12/2009(UTC) Posts: 20 Location: Boise, Idaho
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Darren Watalla wrote:We could all get into another heated debate about Chinese made products however we just run in circles. Keep in mind that not all Chinese manufacturers are evil. There are just a few bad apples in every bunch.
Cheers... Darren The tainted food scandals scare me...very similar to the tainted food scandals in the US around the turn of the 20th century which led to the Pure Food and Drug act. China now exports a lot of frozen vegetables and apple juice (my kid drinks a lot of apple juice) to the US. Lack of environmental regs also brings serious concern... Anyhow, China produces some high quality products and products that are next to garbage...it's a tossup...
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Joined: 01/01/2007(UTC) Posts: 643 Location: Alberta
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Phill wrote:The tainted food scandals scare me...very similar to the tainted food scandals in the US around the turn of the 20th century which led to the Pure Food and Drug act. China now exports a lot of frozen vegetables and apple juice (my kid drinks a lot of apple juice) to the US. Lack of environmental regs also brings serious concern...
Anyhow, China produces some high quality products and products that are next to garbage...it's a tossup...
It's kind of like looking at airline statistics. They say it is the safest way to travel because there are thousands of flights going on daily without incident. All it takes is someone asleep at the swith to miss a maintenance procedure or miss a dmagaed part and you have an accident. It makes everyone nervous to fly. If we look at the sheer volume of goods coming out of China and see how many are involved in recalls it might be similar. But how many planes are flying with cracks in the frame and how many tainted products are getting through the testers? I could be talking out my butt here since I don't have and real statistical numbers to quote so don't hang me for any of my ramblings please. Cheers... Darren
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand
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Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC) Posts: 11,071 Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
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NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders and a hose pipe on the aorta Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around |
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Joined: 02/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 897 Location: Ramløse, Denmark
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Maybe we'll get Märklin issueing the Challenger and the great UP Gas Turbine lokomotive |
CS, Denmark/Germany Ep. I - V, Switzerland Ep. II - V, USA Ep. III/IV |
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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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Big L were perfectly OK for the job  |
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC) Posts: 12,139 Location: New York, NY
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I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators. AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only. CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ... Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide
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Joined: 19/09/2008(UTC) Posts: 957 Location: ,
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I would be shocked
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Joined: 02/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 897 Location: Ramløse, Denmark
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I_love_Marklin_37538 wrote:I would be shocked |
CS, Denmark/Germany Ep. I - V, Switzerland Ep. II - V, USA Ep. III/IV |
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Joined: 23/02/2009(UTC) Posts: 24 Location: spotswood, newjersey
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TimR wrote:Anyone has any idea of the financial muscle behind Lionel? Any opinion on their ability to be able to be able to pull off this deal?? Yes, I think Lionel can pull this deal off. Its just like the game monoply and lionel can be the big boy on the block utilizing their investors... to dig deeper... to make this happen. As of 1st of May 2008 they are now out of Bankruptcy and have strong investors. I'm just curious if the German Gov't is going to allow such a event. |
Smoke |
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Joined: 03/05/2005(UTC) Posts: 213 Location: Washington state, USA
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smoke006 wrote:Yes, I think Lionel can pull this deal off. Its just like the game monoply and lionel can be the big boy on the block utilizing their investors... to dig deeper... to make this happen. As of 1st of May 2008 they are now out of Bankruptcy and have strong investors. I'm just curious if the German Gov't is going to allow such a event. The only reason Lionel was in bankruptcy in the first place, as far as I know, was because of a lawsuit filed by MTH that they lost and had a very expensive monetary judgement. That was appealed and then settled for a much lower amount that was within the realm of reality. Otherwise I think that their sales are still fairly good. I think that this would be a good thing in the end, Lionel seems to be making a real effort here to get their name out in the public eye again and the range of traditional line items (those focused toward the lower end) is best it has been in years. That is what Marklin really needs to do. Get people into the hobby with affordable, quality hobby models, and many will eventually decide to move up to the more expensive models with more features. The current group of hobbyists that purchase the expensive models now will not be around forever, bringing new people in is an absolute must. -James
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Joined: 19/09/2008(UTC) Posts: 957 Location: ,
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LionelMPC wrote:The only reason Lionel was in bankruptcy in the first place, as far as I know, was because of a lawsuit filed by MTH that they lost and had a very expensive monetary judgement. That was appealed and then settled for a much lower amount that was within the realm of reality. Otherwise I think that their sales are still fairly good. I think that this would be a good thing in the end, Lionel seems to be making a real effort here to get their name out in the public eye again and the range of traditional line items (those focused toward the lower end) is best it has been in years. That is what Marklin really needs to do.
Get people into the hobby with affordable, quality hobby models, and many will eventually decide to move up to the more expensive models with more features. The current group of hobbyists that purchase the expensive models now will not be around forever, bringing new people in is an absolute must.
-James Once M gets taken over will there be a new logo?
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand
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I_love_Marklin_37538 wrote:Once M gets taken over will there be a new logo? Who knows! You will have to ask whoever buys Marklin that question.
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Joined: 10/01/2010(UTC) Posts: 64 Location: Pennsylvania,USA
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I am sure the logo will not change. That Marklin logo is an icon in the hobby world
Kev |
Kev
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Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,778 Location: New Zealand
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I wouldn't think the logo would get changed, but then Marklin themselves have changed the logo at certain times, so no telling what a new owner would do.
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Joined: 19/11/2007(UTC) Posts: 2,835 Location: Northern California,
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I have quite a few China produced Marklin which I've obtained over the last several years. I have no complaints at all since the quality is equal or above that which was made in Germany in the 90's. Of course the 90's models are tinplate and the more recent copies are plastic. But they go well together so no problems. If Lionel takes over it should be a good omen for the American market since it's the largest in the world for model trains, especially now with the recent revival of interest in model trains over here. I don't really care where the models are manufactured, just that the quality is excellent. A Challenger or some other US locos would be very well accepted. This is the best news I've heard about Marklin in a long time. Hope it comes true. I might actually start to buy new models again if they start to produce US MRR. I might even have to enlarge my train room to get them in there. Heavens forbid. Cheers, Bob |
Robert's trains insured by Colt 45--Marklin Club of NorCal, Founder and Sole Member--- Robert's photos may be used as public domain-all copyrights waved "All tyranny needs to gain a foothold is for people of good conscience to remain silent"-T.Jefferson
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Joined: 13/11/2008(UTC) Posts: 381 Location: Richmond, Virginia
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Upon relatively sober reflection, the question for me is, "Would Lionel keep Marklin as a high end, quality brand". I think people who live breath and think model trains as a business might very well want a brand that covers the high end of the market as well as the low. They could be a good thing.
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Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,218 Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
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EuroKev wrote:I am sure the logo will not change. That Marklin logo is an icon in the hobby world
Kev I don't know the Reproductions Tinplate Scale 1 MTH train Sets now say Lionel on the Side |
DT Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's. |
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Joined: 19/09/2008(UTC) Posts: 957 Location: ,
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dntower85 wrote:I don't know the Reproductions Tinplate Scale 1 MTH train Sets now say Lionel on the Side Has there been any news lately about Lionel bidding for Marklin?
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Joined: 23/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 384 Location: Alberta
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Hello All; I have been watching this thread with earnest, in hopes that this "rumor" had some meat to it, but after speaking with my local dealer about the possibility of such a buy out, I'm afraid that my current view is that the possibility of this happening is remote. First of all, I don't believe that Lionel (even with it's recent successes in restructuring itself) has the money needed to initiate the deal. The money needed would be immense and would require Lionel, at the very least, to go to the bank and ask for help, something I don't believe the banks are willing to do in this economic climate. Secondly, Mr. Pluta doesn't appear to be in any hurry to give up his stewardship of Marklin to just any company that comes down the pipeline and expresses an interest in purchasing mother M. This is a good thing, as I believe it will only serve to see Marklin remain strong in these tough times, and, given that the company could remain insolvent indefinitely, as long as the workers are paid, the product keeps on coming out, is this such a bad thing. So, to my mind, although these speculations are fun, Marklin seeing any buyer in the near future is highly unlikely, but then again, what do I know? |
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________ James Bannerman Give me steam, and how you feel can make it real, real as anything you've seen. (Peter Gabriel) |
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