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Offline woj  
#1 Posted : 30 April 2008 16:12:13(UTC)
woj

Sweden   
Joined: 30/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: Halmstad
I am new here, so hello to all of you out there, and I just started a new Marklin layout project (I am documenting it with photos, so hopefully I will be able to post something in the near future, nothing that impressive anyways). My planning is almost done, preliminary work started. Two things I still need to sort out:

1. I need one of the contact points (24944) to work only one time - send one impulse and then switch itself off until it is switched on by another contact point. (I need this to achieve fool-proof automatic alternating traffic on my layout). How do I do this? I am not going to use the central station for it, it should be done with conventional analog connections. I was thinking about using a relay to cut off the circuit to the switch (that is the impulse from the contact point would cut off the contact point itself). Would this work? Or would the relay get stuck somewhere in the middle because of the interrupted impulse? Or is there some other obvious solution to this I don't know about?

2. I want to use the Marklin grade crossing, but I want it to be over a curved track. Is it easily adaptable / looks resonable? Or should I use some do-it-yourself crossing? What do you recommend?

Cheers,

Woj

PS. Sorry for lengthy writing and repetitions, bad habit I know ;)
Offline tekin65  
#2 Posted : 30 April 2008 16:18:58(UTC)
tekin65

Turkey   
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,151
Location: istanbul,
Woj hi,

Welcome to the forum.

Re. your questions:

1) Yes, if I were you I'd use a relay for the job.

2) No, I wouldn't think that it is easily adaptable. You must find a curved isolated track; i don't know about the availability.

Regards,

Cem.
3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD

Now all eras but no ICE

My loco inventory for the interested
Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 30 April 2008 17:05:46(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Woj, welcome to the forum.

If you want to have your level crossing on a curve, you can use the Viessmann level crossing gates and make the approach ramps etc yourself.

See here:

http://www.viessmann-mod...r_nr=2&sprache_nr=2#

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline woj  
#4 Posted : 30 April 2008 17:23:28(UTC)
woj

Sweden   
Joined: 30/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: Halmstad
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by tekin65
<br />
1) Yes, if I were you I'd use a relay for the job.


Anyone here tried it? Is it foolproof? Note that the one time switch needs to activate some things (a signal and a turnout) and then deactivate itself...

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
2) No, I wouldn't think that it is easily adaptable. You must find a curved isolated track; i don't know about the availability.


The curved isolated track is not a problem, you can make one by cutting the connections underneath (talking about C-track here). I was thinking about the crossing itself. Anyways seems I have to look for something else...
Offline ulf999  
#5 Posted : 30 April 2008 17:34:53(UTC)
ulf999


Joined: 12/05/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,908
Location: Stockholm, Sweden
Welcome to the forum Woj!
Ulf, American HO. www.goldenvalleyroute.com/
Offline woj  
#6 Posted : 30 April 2008 17:45:22(UTC)
woj

Sweden   
Joined: 30/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: Halmstad
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas
<br />
If you want to have your level crossing on a curve, you can use the Viessmann level crossing gates and make the approach ramps etc yourself.


Nice tip, I browsed through it and it would defo be the ultimate solution (slow closing / opening / adaptability in almost any aspect). One thing I don't like about it is that I want my grade crossing over two bi-directional tracks. That makes the connections for the viessmann complicated (at least for my taste), not only in terms of electrics, but also in terms of designing the track elements (switches in proper places). On the other hand the Marklin crossing is dead simple to install over any number of tracks, bi- or single direction.

(There is still a possibility that (a) there will be no crossing on my layout, or (b) it will be on straight track).

Thanks for the suggestion though ;)

Cheers,

Woj
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#7 Posted : 30 April 2008 17:56:12(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
1a. I think it works with a simple relay like that; but use a relay which takes some power to switch. With a modern electronic relay, it might switch so fast that whatever you want to switch doesnt'.
1b. Fool proof would be having double contact tracks; the first switching the thing, the second switching the relay and cutting the first contact track.
2. As said, Märklin level crossing may be used, but there will be some space between the crossing and track. You would need to do the isolation and contact yourself replacing the origibal tracks but thats simple with C-track. However, it's better to use contact tracks and a relay, as it might be bad contact with car wheels anyway.
And even better is Viessmann of course; gentle lowering bars instead of the awful abrupt things of Märklin.

/Lars
Offline woj  
#8 Posted : 30 April 2008 20:31:53(UTC)
woj

Sweden   
Joined: 30/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: Halmstad
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Lars Westerlind
<br />1a. I think it works with a simple relay like that; but use a relay which takes some power to switch. With a modern electronic relay, it might switch so fast that whatever you want to switch doesnt'.


Ok, so is the Marklin relay good for that? I know the Viessman relays are highly "sophisticated" meaning probably too fast.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
1b. Fool proof would be having double contact tracks; the first switching the thing, the second switching the relay and cutting the first contact track.


Yes, I was thinking just that. This produces some more problems but I should be able to get around them.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
2. As said, Märklin level crossing may be used, but there will be some space between the crossing and track.


Not if I tweak it a bit...

Offline steventrain  
#9 Posted : 30 April 2008 20:46:48(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,606
Location: United Kingdom
Welcome to the forum, woj.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline intruder  
#10 Posted : 30 April 2008 21:46:57(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
Welcome to us, Woj.

In my small summer house M-track layout I have a station with two tracks. When a train enters the station from the east, on track 2, it automatically releases the eastbound train on track 1 and vice versa. This is operated by contact point, working only once.

The contact point operates an ordinary 4-pole relay (via a rectifier and a condenser).
The four poles for track 1 are controlling:
1 and 2: the enter and exit switches are set correct for the track 2
3. set track 2 exit signal to green
4. set the 7245 to disconnect the contact point in track 1

Track 2 has the same function, but of course controls track 1

Well after leaving the staion area the next time, the train triggers another contact point, resetting the 7245. This works very well.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline Basil  
#11 Posted : 30 April 2008 23:24:29(UTC)
Basil


Joined: 25/06/2006(UTC)
Posts: 141
Location: ATHENS
Welcome to the forun Woj.

Basil
Offline woj  
#12 Posted : 01 May 2008 00:48:36(UTC)
woj

Sweden   
Joined: 30/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 74
Location: Halmstad
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by intruder
<br />
The contact point operates an ordinary 4-pole relay (via a rectifier and a condenser).
The four poles for track 1 are controlling:
1 and 2: the enter and exit switches are set correct for the track 2
3. set track 2 exit signal to green
4. set the 7245 to disconnect the contact point in track 1

Track 2 has the same function, but of course controls track 1

Well after leaving the staion area the next time, the train triggers another contact point, resetting the 7245. This works very well.


Yes, that's it I think. Could you give some parameters of the rectifier and the capacitor? I am very poor with detailed electrics, I only know general principles.
Offline intruder  
#13 Posted : 01 May 2008 12:55:04(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
I used diode brigde rectifiers, but I cannot remember the data (we have not opened our summer house for the season yet, maybe next weekend).
The relay coils do not draw much current, so a 100 mA rectifier should be sufficient, or it is possible to make one with four diodes, e.g. 1N4148 (100 mA) or 1N4002 (1 A).

I cannot remember the condencer either, maybe 100 microfarad, 40 volts. It makes the rectified AC smooth and keeps the relay on a bit longer.

In this case it's analog operation with normal 16 V AC.

Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline MärCo  
#14 Posted : 03 May 2008 12:11:57(UTC)
MärCo


Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,159
Location: The Netherlands
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by woj
<br />I am new here, so hello to all of you out there, and I just started a new Marklin layout project (I am documenting it with photos, so hopefully I will be able to post something in the near future, nothing that impressive anyways).

Every train is important, big or small wink.
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
Offline Renato  
#15 Posted : 08 May 2008 16:45:00(UTC)
Renato

Italy   
Joined: 19/03/2004(UTC)
Posts: 976
Location: Gorizia, Italy
Welcome to the forum Woj.

Renato
Offline drstapes  
#16 Posted : 10 May 2008 05:01:34(UTC)
drstapes

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 764
Location: Bury St. Edmunds, Suffolk
re contacts
using m track and the contact rails you can easily do what you want. The train having passed over the contact will change the signal,point etc one way. you will have to have a further contact section at some point on the layout to reverse the effect
Regards

Geoff (UK)

marklin HO from the 50's and 60's
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