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Offline Hemmerich  
#101 Posted : 15 April 2008 23:11:14(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
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Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt
<br />Here it is - Trix 23411, identical to the Marklin apart from having insulated wheels.

And the different road and car number (10505 Mü, Wagen 82); which makes those TRIX cars in particular interesting - as I had mentioned already in other postings. Smile
Offline spitzenklasse  
#102 Posted : 15 April 2008 23:56:30(UTC)
spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
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Handsome car Matt. I like the shiny window frames. My Rheingold/Helvetia has brass ones.
Offline jonquinn  
#103 Posted : 16 April 2008 05:36:42(UTC)
jonquinn


Joined: 15/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,591
Location: Pennsylvania
shouldn't the dome car have large block lettering (rheingold) or DB (spelled out) in gold lettering? or was there a difference between the rheingold and rheinpfeil trains? I was wondering if the lack of lettering was due to some copyright issues or other type of infringement? Or maybe the real thing just had no large black lettering on the dome car?

will I have to make decals with an ALPS printer (they make metallic ink in gold color for it) to make this true to scale?

roco also makes a nice looking set of the rheingold, from what I can tell of the photos. however the cars are probably longer/scale length. The set - no locomotive - is about $250-280 US.


edit 4/16
Maybe I have been able to answer my own question to some degree - it looks like pfeil translates to "arrow". So did this train not have any lettering below the dome windows? Seems like it is missing something without extra markings.
Offline mike c  
#104 Posted : 16 April 2008 06:41:08(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,298
Location: Montreal, QC
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt

UserPostedImage



Without having a place to post photos to then link to a posting (ie photobucket), how do I upload photos with a message?

Thanks

Mike C
Offline Guus  
#105 Posted : 16 April 2008 12:17:45(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mike c

Without having a place to post photos to then link to a posting (ie photobucket), how do I upload photos with a message?

Thanks

Mike C


Hi Mike,

I'm sure you know that photos can be uploaded to this sites server. It's free and the photos will remain here on the server.

https://www.marklin-users.net/ap...s/upload/uploadstart.asp

Kind regards
Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline WelshMatt  
#106 Posted : 16 April 2008 16:14:59(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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I get the impression that the brass/gold windowframes were a later addition. These cars were delivered in the blue/beige Rheingold scheme and then went on to become the TEE Rheingold/Rheinpfeil in red/beige.

I would probably buy a matching set of red/beige ones but I don't seem to be able to find them anywhere at sensible prices. I paid between £30 and £35 per coach for these which I thought pretty fair considering the detailing and high standard of finish.
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline spitzenklasse  
#107 Posted : 16 April 2008 17:48:41(UTC)
spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
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Thanks for the tip Guus. I think you're correct about the later cars. I know items are harder to find in Britain, and pricier, even with the strong Lb. sterling. Try looking on e-bay. I know there are Us dealers who sell to Britain and europe. With the exchange rate in your favor over our dollar, you might geta good deal. Even after paying shipping, and insurance you could fair well! Happy hunting! You might try Micr-Macro-Mundo. They are on the web, and located in Miami Florida. Good prices, and a fair selection. There is also Eurolokshop in New York state, and Reynaulds Euroimports in Elburn, Illinois. There are others as well, like Discount trains, in Sunrise, (Fort Lauderdale, Fla.) I'm sure one of these has what you want, and will ship it.
Offline WelshMatt  
#108 Posted : 16 April 2008 19:18:23(UTC)
WelshMatt


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The dome car from my Rheingold set has "RHEINGOLD" in gold lettering on the sides, yes. I think there were two batches of the prototypes with different numbers of windows in the dome - the later one had larger panes of glass so fewer windows. This might well explain inconsistencies in lettering, plus I'd imagine they changed over time anyway - the V200 for example went from having "DB" in full in chrome letters on the sides to the little "keks" symbol.

If you have the 42995 Apfelpfeil set you can see this easily, as one car is from the first batch and the other from the second. I am also vaguely looking for the old 4092 and 4099 Apfelpfeil coaches but these seem incredibly rare, according to the Modellbahnboerse site they were only made in 1979. Definitely going to hunt out a red/beige 4099 at some point though.

I have looked at buying trans-Atlantic but I think it'd come out just as expensive in the end, as retailers over there are having to buy the models in Euros. At the moment I'm sniffing out the few bargains I can, like the first versions of 9093/4 for £12 each boxed and in great condition.
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline spitzenklasse  
#109 Posted : 16 April 2008 20:27:58(UTC)
spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
Location: ,
Oh! Good, that would be a very nice buy!
Maybe it;s time for global currency? Or is that too "SOVIET like"? I often wonder, What if they had built roads, and schools, and houses, and cars, and stores, and furniture, and appliances, and electronics instead of puting all effort into beating us at bombs and rockets? Might have worked for everyones benefit by now?
Offline spitzenklasse  
#110 Posted : 21 April 2008 20:06:39(UTC)
spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
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Why did marklin make the luxury express coaches longer? Is it because they've switched manufacturers? Shouldn't they also lengthen the class BR103 electric also. I think the current one is 1/100 scale length.
Offline WelshMatt  
#111 Posted : 21 April 2008 23:34:29(UTC)
WelshMatt


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To the best of my knowledge the Br. 103 is scale length - the prototype is far shorter than the coaches. There were two batches of the real thing, the second was longer (more space in the cabs).

I'm not aware of Marklin having switched manufacturers. I thought they were trying to find a better compromise between scale length and the ability to handle R1 curves without looking daft? I'd guess they also thought that the Trix versions would sell better if they made them longer.
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline mike c  
#112 Posted : 22 April 2008 02:31:40(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8,298
Location: Montreal, QC
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by spitzenklasse
<br />Why did marklin make the luxury express coaches longer? Is it because they've switched manufacturers? Shouldn't they also lengthen the class BR103 electric also. I think the current one is 1/100 scale length.


Marklin and Trix decided to change to the 1:93 standard, which has been used by Fleischmann since the 1990s. Roco had also released a few models (the swiss EWIV) in this scale, but has since gone to full 1:87. Hag's EWI were 1:87, the IC2000 and McDonald's WR were 1:93.

I presume that this decision was taken so that Maerklin could directly compete with Fleischmann. I guess that there may have been insufficient sales of the 1:100 coaches and the idea of poaching some of Fleischmann's clientele may have been appealing. The question is whether any new clients will offset the potential loss of clients who preferred the shorter coaches.

I would have preferred to see a little more detail, especially for the interior decorations.

It just happens that 1:93 coaches are about the longest length that can pass on parallel tracks of R1 and R2 without touching. With Ma-Trix's design offset mounted bogies, the carriage overhang is even smaller than with normal bogies.

So far, I have purchased some of Maerklin's new SBB lightsteel coaches (about exact 1:87) and the Trix FS 23414 and a few DB UIC coaches. I am waiting for delivery of a set of Rheinpfeil coaches (no Dome car and no Restaurant).

I just got the Roco TEE Rheingold Set in 1:87 and it is a gem.
I have my 1:87 on display and run the 1:100 and 1:93 material on my little test loop.
When I finally buy the Gotthard layout from the Swiss Transport Museum, I will be able to run my 1:87 as well.
I keep forgetting that if I want to save up for that, I have to stop buying loks and coaches. Still, it's a nice dream.

Regards

Mike C
Montreal
Go HABS Go!
Offline spitzenklasse  
#113 Posted : 22 April 2008 03:14:59(UTC)
spitzenklasse


Joined: 06/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,573
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That would be something Mike. We must dream! I love the gotthard bahn. I wonder if it will become a historical railroad when the new base tunnel opens? Would the awiss realy sell the layout? Have you seen it?
Offline bmcrae  
#114 Posted : 22 April 2008 03:59:41(UTC)
bmcrae

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Posts: 970
Location: Okanagan Valley, BC
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mike c
<br />Go HABS Go!

DITTO!!!! wink
Offline Hemmerich  
#115 Posted : 22 April 2008 21:15:15(UTC)
Hemmerich


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Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt
<br />To the best of my knowledge the Br. 103 is scale length - the prototype is far shorter than the coaches. There were two batches of the real thing, the second was longer (more space in the cabs).

Version 1 has a length of 19500mm, version 2 - starting with road# 103 218-4 - has 20200mm; which convert to 226mm and 232mm in HO.

Märklin always offered/offers models with length of version 1; their models are 219mm long. ROCO offered/offers both versions; their models are 233mm long for version 1 and 236mm for version 2 - that much about their "exact 1:87" ads. biggrin

When having both versions on a layout, as usual it always depends on the view/angle if anyone even recognizes the length difference. Here some pics of a Märklin and ROCO (version 2) model in different views. Personally I prefer the shorter Märklin models; they fit much better to their 1:100 or 1:93,5 cars. wink

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:I'm not aware of Marklin having switched manufacturers.

Märklin IS the manufacturer! (whether they produce their new cars in their own factory in Györ or outsource production to a subcontractor doesn't matter) Cool
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:I thought they were trying to find a better compromise between scale length and the ability to handle R1 curves without looking daft? I'd guess they also thought that the Trix versions would sell better if they made them longer.

The "comfort length" was introduced by Märklin to provide a more attractive length for those 26,4/27,5m car types by still allowing its customers to run them w/o problems on their existing layouts. Anything else is pure speculation without any solid proof. wink
Offline steventrain  
#116 Posted : 22 April 2008 21:26:58(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,746
Location: United Kingdom
Is that Roco class 103 in 00 scale???
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Hemmerich  
#117 Posted : 22 April 2008 21:44:19(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
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Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by steventrain
<br />Is that Roco class 103 in 00 scale???

biggrinbiggrinbiggrin

Not really - it's the 2003 club model #69740; which was complemented with 1:100(!) club car set #44900 in 2004; the last year before they went bancrupt.
Offline WelshMatt  
#118 Posted : 22 April 2008 23:54:28(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
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I'd have thought the problem with the Br.103 is getting the slightly different cab shape? I know the extra length on the later batch was to give the driver a bit more space so I'd guess the curves are slightly different.
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline WelshMatt  
#119 Posted : 26 April 2008 20:35:51(UTC)
WelshMatt


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Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Caplin
<br />I have this lonely loco 37571 just pulling some hopper wagons.

Then to day I got three second hand coaches (well kept) to match (M* 4096, 4097 and 4098) for a total of just 60 Euros. [:p]

UserPostedImage

In spite of that they are shorter and have no NEM sockets for short couplers, I like them, the colours match the BR 103 excatly.




Well I can beat that now - picked up 4095/4096/4097, all three for €30 on ebay. Unboxed but in good condition, I now have two 4095s but at that price I couldn't pass them up. That's only slightly more than I paid for the first (boxed) 4095...

Edited by moderator 11 January 2011 13:52:32(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline steventrain  
#120 Posted : 27 April 2008 10:53:59(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,746
Location: United Kingdom
Very good price, Matt!Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline WelshMatt  
#121 Posted : 28 April 2008 00:00:33(UTC)
WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,345
Location: ,
I think you can use the redrilled coupling trick on these coaches, certainly my 4095 happily traversed R1 curves in both directions after trimming them down. It really comes down to how the couplings are fitted - if they clip onto a peg moulded into the bogie then you can drill another hole in the coupling to get them closer. If (as with my 4093 and 4094) the coupling has pegs that clip into the bogie then you can't use that technique.

I can post a photo of the two designs if that would help.
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
Offline Hemmerich  
#122 Posted : 28 April 2008 04:04:15(UTC)
Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,734
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt
<br />I think you can use the redrilled coupling trick on these coaches, certainly my 4095 happily traversed R1 curves in both directions after trimming them down. It really comes down to how the couplings are fitted - if they clip onto a peg moulded into the bogie then you can drill another hole in the coupling to get them closer. If (as with my 4093 and 4094) the coupling has pegs that clip into the bogie then you can't use that technique.

I can post a photo of the two designs if that would help.

Hi Matt, et al

I used basically 4 different methods (3 of them apply to most Märklin cars):

- redrilled coupling
- different bogie with NEM pocket
- replacement of car bottom and bogies (my preferred method, but not available for all cars)
- specific short coupling adapters like SYMOBA, etc.

I'll probably open a different thread for that discussion.
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