Hello Everybody:

When I first looked through the 2008 New Items Brochure, I very quickly noticed that the 26544 Cisalpino/SBB/FS Set had a few inaccurate details.
I do not know whether Maerklin will eventually release models based on Trix' announced 185.2, which is much closer to the actual Re 484 as was used by Cisalpino. In any case, the photo of the set that was included in the Brochure includes a normal Re 482 painted in the Cisalpino livery. I am certain that this will be delivered with the decals saying 484.
What concerns me more is that the Set is supposed to contain one Cisalpino (ex-SBB) Apm (like 4368), one ex-FS A (like 41893) and one ex-SBB Bpm (like 4366/42163). There is also an additional ex-FS coach available under 41897. My problem here is that the SBB 2nd class coach should be a Bpm EC (like 4369) and not like the one pictured.
I have already contacted Maerklin and got the standard "thank you for your interest in our products" reply. At least, the message stated that my letter would be forwarded to the corresponding department.
Here is where you all come in... If enough of us write in, we may be able to effect some minor changes, such as ensuring that the set comes with the right coaches.

If you would like to help out, send an email to service@maerklin.de

Regards

Mike C

Hello Michael:

First things first. It is very rare that a Re 484 in Cisalpino livery is seen in Zuerich HB. This is not because the trains do not stop in Zuerich, but because the Re 484 were only used on the Milano-Geneva and Milano-Bern segments of the routes via the Simplon tunnel. The trains between Bern and Basel were pulled by either Re 4/4II or Re 460, as were all of the Cisalpino trains on the Gotthard.
AFAIK, the Re 484s have been returned to SBB Cargo and the trains are now being pulled in Switzerland by Re 460 or Re 4/4II. In Italy, traction is handled by Trenitalia (FS) Loks.
At some point in the future, the ETR 610 will go into service. I do not know whether this means that the 470s will be withdrawn from service or whether there will be a migration with 610s taking over for the 470s and the 470s replacing the locomotive pulled trains.
I guess that we should know more over the next few months.
I already have the ACME Cisalpino coach sets and pull them with one of my Hag, Roco or Maerklin Re 460s or Re 4/4IIs.

Regards

Mike C

It's interesting that two North American members discuss about, in part, Italian rolling stock, Cisalpino is a joint wenture.
On our forum, marklinfan.it, we keep moaning about the fact that Marklin doesn't produce Italian rolling stock from very long time, I mean new tooling, not re-painting of off-the-shelf stuff.
Marklin thinks that the italian market is a very limited one and then has forgotten us, someone says at least until 2012.
From your exchange I understand that they are wrong, an italian locomitive would sell also abroad, not only in Italy.
At least we have Roco, the new Caimano is a nice one.
Sorry if I went OT.

laalves:

Mehano has announced a new Eurospinter for CP for 2008. It is now posted on their website:

http://www.mehano.si

r/mark

Hey Lutz,

ever heard of Gieffeci? They are Roco's distributor in Italy. For many years, Roco has produced models for Gieffeci, many of which are not available in the Roco International Catalog. This was also in addition to any Italian models in the "International Collection".

So, I would not say that Roco has failed in Italy.

Until the demise of Lima and Rivarossi, they were the two main Italian Model Train Brands. Since then, there have been quite a few new companies to come on the scene, including ACME and VI Trains. Add to this the reborn Hornby-Lima-Rivarossi and you definitely have one of the busiest markets in terms of models being released right now.

It would be nice to see Maerklin put out a version of the E64F4 or Traxx loks for Italy. Maybe an Angeltrains 186 or a FNM Dispolok. There is already a model of the SBB Re 474. How about the same livery but with DFG markings?

The one thing that I really would love to see is a Set with 3 or 4 Eurofima coaches in the original orange livery. That would make a lovely train for Italian, Swiss and German or Austrian modellers. Another nice model would be a UIC-X as a Cuccette (Couchette) coach.

The other thing that I would like to see is a Maerklin version of the Trix 23414, but in the red and gray colours like 4189.

Oh, and bring back the classic Italian box car!

Regards

Mike C

Mario:

If your trains are pure toys, then that is fine.
My collection consists of trains that I have either ridden on or seen during my travels in Europe. The trains are not just playthings, but also recollections of memories associated with that train and things seen or experienced on those trips.

I am not saying that every model has to be exact to the point of being fanatical. All that I ask for is that the models be "as prototypical as possible".
If not, Marklin could make one model of coaches and just repaint it as close to every other livery out there. If I wanted that, I would just buy Piko.
I don't understand how models that have "glow through" bodies ever make it past quality control, nor how small details that could be corrected for a few pennies per model are left incorrect (see windshield wipers on the 189/474 or the SNCF decals on the skirting of the 4266 SBB Coach.)
More than that, I do not understand modellers who accept everything as it is delivered.
I have for many years submitted a yearly list of desired models to Marklin. Over the years, a few of those model suggestions have actually been released. I am proud to say that I have participated, and hope that my suggestions have indeed helped Marklin decide on new items to release.
If you will buy just anything, that's fine. I don't have those resources, so I want to make sure that when I buy a model, that it is at least worth the money I am spending on it.

Respectfully yours,

Mike C

Just a renumbering of last year's. It's a bad model.

I have a Lima version that is shorter than it should be (the Mehano is correct in that bit) but looks much better than Mehano's.

A few issues here:

1) AFAIK there are no Eurofima coaches in Cisalpino livery. The SBB coaches that were repainted for this use are SBB EC coaches (1993). The Italian coaches that were repainted in the Cisalpino livery are Italian UIC-Z A, B and BH coaches and Grand Comfort Dining Car and UIC-X Baggage coach. These coaches look remarkably similar to the Eurofima coaches they were based on, but like the SNCB and OBB variants, they too have slight differences that can be used to tell them apart.

2) The Cisalpino Loks were only used on the Simplon-Loetschberg and Simplon-Rhone Valley routes. Most of those routes saw those loks pulling repainted SBB EC material or Trenitalia XMPR stock (Milano-Geneva). The main trains with FS CIS liveried stock were the Canaletto and the Cinque Terre over the Gotthard to Chiasso and points south.

3) On the Gotthard route, the Cisalpino trains were pulled by either Re 4/4II (often MU) or by Re 460, depending on which Fahrplan. The 484s were used between Milano and Geneva and between Milano and Bern. Re 4/4IIs or Re 460s were used on the stretch from Bern to Basel and back.

4) ACME's set was composed of entirely Italian rolling stock. The matching lok would have been used to pull ex-SBB stock, which was at one point available from Wabu.

I am not a bean counter. My collection represents trains I have been on or have seen on my trips in Europe. It is at once a hobby, it is a collection of toys, and a remembrance of things seen, people met and experiences on that particular trip. Ever so often, I look at my display, and the trip comes back to me.

If you don't care about your models being prototypical, then why doesn't Maerklin just make a 185 and a 182 and then just repaint them for every country? Wouldn't you rather have a realistic (but still playable) model? That is all I ask for.

As far as the original posting, I have already stated that the information contained in the New Items Brochure referred to all three coaches in the Set being registered with the SBB. The add-on coach was identified as Italian. Mr. Hemmerich's photo shows that one of the coaches in the set is identified as a ex-FS BH. That information was not available to anybody reading the New Items Brochure, and could only be gleaned by visiting the Messe or inside info from Maerklin.

As with the Gottardo, we rely on information contained in the New Items Pages. If that info later changes, we are not always in the know.

As far as the Set, I had deduced that the Eurofima A was a Trenitalia (FS) coach, because the SBB has not provided any of this coach type for Cisalpino use. One coach could be clearly identified as a SBB A type EC coach, leaving the other as the "open seating second class coach registered with the SBB" (see 4366) which would not be prototypically accurate.

If it is in fact a FS BH, then it is a little closer to the actual model, but still not entirely prototypical. But then it is the text in the New Items Brochure that is not correct, so once again, the inaccuracy is the result of sloppy preparation at Marklin.

This whole issue was caused by either incorrect models or incorrect description, and I as a Marklin customer have the right to bring it up in a forum about Marklin trains without being branded a bean counter.

Regards

Mike C

Lutz,

I started this theme based on a concern about the contents of this set, which according to the information contained in the New Items Brochure, did not correspond visually to that description.

1) Do you agree or disagree that there was a discrepancy between the image and the description?

2) As a result of the debate as to whether it was important whether the coaches were indeed former FS or SBB stock, did it ever come across to you that this particular fact was important to me or not?

3) My point was simply that the coach illustrated did not correspond to the prototype described in the Brochure. Do you agree that that was my point?

4) You seem to have access to information beyond that to which I (and many other modellers) have access to. If I tried, I could not magnify the image in the Brochure to be able to read the road numbers of the individual coaches. I rely on Maerklin to publish accurate information about the models, and I base my decision on whether to pre-order said item from that information. AFAIK there is no Lutz Hemmerich New Items Brochure, although that might contain more information if such a publication would be made each year.

5) I may in my postings criticize the model or the manufacturer, in instance of an unclear description or other issue pertaining to a new or current model. Your criticism seems limited to criticizing people who criticize Maerklin.

I may, in the future, receive an email from Maerklin in which they reply to my email, stating that the coaches in the set are primarily FS coaches. At that time, my likely response will simply be that I hope that they eventually release the SBB Bpm in the matching livery.

I don't give a rat's ass about how many rivets there are on a lok, as long as the overall impression is correct for that lok type.
The high quality and detail is one of the reasons that my collection is by Maerklin and not by Piko. If ACME would have delivered the 484 in AC, that model would surely be sitting in my display by now.

I was going to order the Hobby Set so that my niece and nephew could play with it, and I probably still will.

In the interim, I continue to be very pleased with my Wabu (Roco) ex-SBB Apm and Bpm and the ACME Sets, which are as nice as any model in my collection.

Thanks for the information. That is appreciated, but the infantile criticism and the quoting out of context, you can keep that. That being said,

greetings and best regards from the other side of the pond.

Regards

Mike C

All: Here is a picture of the ETR 470 in Cisalpino markings:

http://www.cs.fsu.edu/~m...auptbahnhof/IMG_6804.JPG

I also have some pictures of the mock-up of the new Cisalpino trainset as shown to people in the Zuerich HB in 2006. I don't actually remember if this is supposed to be an ETR 610 or something even more modern. But it was scheduled to be used only after the new tunnel was open, and was supposed to drop the travel time from Zuerich HB to Milano Centrale by about half. BTW, the people in the picture are mostly my family, and the little still talks about the "Pino cookie" that is shown in the last few frames.--MM

http://www.cs.fsu.edu/~m...in_Switzerland/Cisalpino

please replace the word "whole" in the previous posting with hole. My hand was typing faster than I was thinking.:)

Mike C

I have received my 26544 Set and I am waiting for two 41897 coaches to go with it. I have been using the coaches with one of my Maerklin Re 4/4IIs (37344) and with one of my Re 460s.
I am not really using the lok because the Gotthard route CIS ECs are not pulled by the 484s. Those loks were used with SBB EC Coaches painted in the CIS livery on the Loetschberg-Simplon and Rhone-Simplon routes.
The Maerklin coaches are nice. I intend to equip them with interior lighting. I find that the Maerklin coaches are easier to illuminate and that the longer consists look better in the dark.

I am disappointed that ACME has not yet released the AC version of their model. If they do eventually release it, I will probably get that version, just to have it in my collection.

ACME claimed to have an exclusive deal with Cisalpino AG. If they do, I do not know how Maerklin was able to manufacture their model. I do know that Wabu (Switzerland) stopped producing Cisalpino umbau models after threats of legal action.

All in all, if you are a fan of the 26.4cm Maerklin coaches, and you want an interesting looking consist on your layout, this set is worth considering. It is definitely a good value for the whole train.
If you want to be more prototypical, you will forego the "Re 484" in favor of one of the other loktypes (see above) that actually pulled this train.

You can also add one or two 42162 or 42163 as Kurswagen for the Swiss portion of the route.

Regards

Mike C

Nice picture, Lutz.

This is such a nice set. I am very tempted!

Ray

Hi Mark. I have this set and added 2 extra 41897 second class coaches. I like it a lot. It fits in well with all my swiss items, and really is good value for the money. If you are familiar with any of the Hobby series loks you know what you are getting. It's another item I don't mind letting my 8 year old son operate on the layout

The look of the train is distinctive on the layout (I think Mike used the term 'interesting'. )
It is a worthy/welcomed addition to my collection and I would recommend it to anyone.