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Offline Midtfynsdata  
#1 Posted : 05 February 2007 10:14:56(UTC)
Midtfynsdata


Joined: 14/12/2006(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: , Midtfyn
Hello All

I Hope somebody can me help that i am not getting the BIG picture.
I wnat to wire up a schattenbahnhof with 9 tracks with Viessmann relais 5551. I just cant seem to get it working. I already have burnet to solenoids. I also have looket at schematic written by Lars Westerlind regarding schattenbahnhof. Just not getting the ide with the wiring. I am using c tracks not digital.
I am sorry that my elektro skills are so poorely. [:(]
Regards
Stefan
Offline rschaffr  
#2 Posted : 05 February 2007 21:22:45(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,193
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Stefan: I see no-one has come up with help. Just wanted you to know that you weren't being ignored. I control my Schattenbahnhofen with my computer and am digital, so I can't help you. I'm sure one of our blocking experts can provide you a wiring diagram that will help.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Midtfynsdata  
#3 Posted : 05 February 2007 21:34:19(UTC)
Midtfynsdata


Joined: 14/12/2006(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: , Midtfyn
Thanks Ron.

The problem i mainly that i cant get the solenoids to work like i would. But everywhere i have looket the talk about starting the trains manually.... Is that right? I am hoping to do it automaticaly. If that is at all possible without PC/PLC.
Regards
Stefan
Offline rschaffr  
#4 Posted : 05 February 2007 21:44:15(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,193
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
It should be possible.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline clapcott  
#5 Posted : 05 February 2007 23:01:43(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,448
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Stefan,

Just so we are on the same page, which schematic are you working from?
And what are the symptoms (other than burnt solenoids)
- what function(s) work as expected?
- what function(s) do not work? (what does actually happen and what do you expect)
Peter
Offline Midtfynsdata  
#6 Posted : 05 February 2007 23:17:57(UTC)
Midtfynsdata


Joined: 14/12/2006(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: , Midtfyn
I dont really have a schematic to look at. The schematic´s i have seen, the all start a train with manual buttons. I would like to run the entire station automaticaly. example. When train runs down to track 9 (last track) a new train runs from track 1. Train entering from the layout to the station and starts train on track 2 and so on. Is this possible analog? Would like to have the opportunitie for making it digital in the future? they just keep running until i cut the power or a block stops them.
I can make a new train start when another trains is entering but i cannot get the solenoids to get back to right position so that the can allow a new train on that track. Maybe a special placement for resetting contact track somewhere. I cant see where that should be or how many contacts i need at total. You can see my layout under "me and my layout" if that helps a bit
Regards
Stefan
Offline laalves  
#7 Posted : 06 February 2007 00:23:49(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Well Stefan, I did try to help you out in another thread, but after I posted my schematic, you didn't ask anything else. Other than that, the best I could manage would be to go there and do the wiring for you biggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrinbiggrin!

Luis
Offline Midtfynsdata  
#8 Posted : 06 February 2007 00:35:28(UTC)
Midtfynsdata


Joined: 14/12/2006(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: , Midtfyn
That would be very nice if you would do that. biggrinWill You????

I didn´t ask for more because i am using 5551. already bought 3 pieces for test puposes. But after i didn´t got it working i have looked at your diagram and almost left to the store for buying the same youre using. I understand your wiring reasonably Smile (I think...)
The reason i posted this is, can i get it working with this i have? If nobody had written a couple of days i sure had switched everything to a true copy of yours.
Regards
Stefan
Offline laalves  
#9 Posted : 06 February 2007 01:02:24(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Sorry, time's too short to go to Denmark in the near future.... biggrin.

I am planning a train trip to the Norsk fjords this spring though....


Either way, and whatever usual shadow station diagam you use, the 5551 is not really much useful. The 5552 is much more flexible, and you can even use it as a 5551 if the need arises. Connections for that effect are simple and explained in the manual.

Maybe you can trade your 5551s in at your dealer for 5552s?

Luís
Offline Midtfynsdata  
#10 Posted : 06 February 2007 01:26:09(UTC)
Midtfynsdata


Joined: 14/12/2006(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: , Midtfyn
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by laalves
<br />Sorry, time's too short to go to Denmark in the near future.... biggrin.

I am planning a train trip to the Norsk fjords this spring though....


Either way, and whatever usual shadow station diagam you use, the 5551 is not really much useful. The 5552 is much more flexible, and you can even use it as a 5551 if the need arises. Connections for that effect are simple and explained in the manual.

Maybe you can trade your 5551s in at your dealer for 5552s?

Luís


I buy all the beer you can drink while you do the wiring???? wink

Ok with the 5552. Got the impression from somebody that the more outputs the better. I can problably use them somewhere else. Now the question to you Laalves: Are you saying that i should make a copy of your schematic and use 1 5552 per track?
Regards
Stefan
Offline Tony  
#11 Posted : 06 February 2007 10:44:40(UTC)
Tony

South Africa   
Joined: 18/09/2004(UTC)
Posts: 726
Location: Cape Town
Hi Stephan, some time back I posted what I did with my shadow station and I thibnk there have been a number of postings related to shadow stations over the past years.
If you see this link:
https://www.marklin-user...1&SearchTerms=shadow

This shows what I have done. I only have 4 storage tracks,I use reed switches extensively, I manually release the trains that I want, I also use the 5552's and I rely on the end cutoff switches of the Ctrack points.( ie this would not work with m-track points - the "solenoids" would burn out)

the reed switches control the entry point to each storage line in a simple fashion.

This setup does much more than just the shadow station and includes by-pass from both directions and reversing loops from both directions which is quite useful and adds many fun, operational senarios.

Personally I prefer a manual release of a train as it gives you more flexibility and control
Regards Tony
Offline laalves  
#12 Posted : 06 February 2007 15:42:09(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Midtfynsdata
<br />
Are you saying that i should make a copy of your schematic and use 1 5552 per track?

Well, that is a bit too strong biggrin, but if you replace that "should" for a "could", then, yeah, sure, go ahead, by all means.
As to train release, it´s perfectly manual, via the CS.
BTW, I chose to use an analog transformer to feed track power in the whole shadow station area to be able to automatically lower the driving speed in the shadow station area, which means that I send the trains to the station controlling them digitally but, as soon as the lok enters the station area, the automatic system takes over, reducing speed of the train to about half of the maximum and selecting the first available empty siding.
Since I can bypass the contact track via k83 control, I can actually use any of the 10 tracks as either sidings or thouroughfares, which means I can also use the shadow station as a reversing loop.

Hope you get what I mean.

Luís
Offline Midtfynsdata  
#13 Posted : 06 February 2007 21:44:08(UTC)
Midtfynsdata


Joined: 14/12/2006(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: , Midtfyn
Tony an laalves thanks for the input.

I thinking about going the way you are Laalves but that requires a investment of the CS right now and 10 5552 and 3 viessmann decoders. Are you going to use this kind of solution on youre entire layout laalves? You also talked about Tams schattenbahnhof modul is that better, even when its analog?
Regards
Stefan
Offline laalves  
#14 Posted : 06 February 2007 23:55:50(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Midtfynsdata
<br />Tony an laalves thanks for the input.

I thinking about going the way you are Laalves but that requires a investment of the CS right now and 10 5552 and 3 viessmann decoders. Are you going to use this kind of solution on youre entire layout laalves? You also talked about Tams schattenbahnhof modul is that better, even when its analog?

Well, I'm not planning any more shadow stations, so I don't think so.
As to k83, I'll likely use more of them or any of the equivalent items available biggrin.
As to the Tams solution, better or woese is a matter of opinion, I guess. It should be easier, though. I suggest you download the manual and read it to make your own mind.

[Edit]Further, you don't need to use 10 relays and k83 decoders. 5 x 5552 will do if you build a control board with simple hardware DPDT switches (10 of them) to bypass the contact track.

So, if you need digital control via CS or 6021+6040 or Intellibox, then you need 10 x 5552 + 2.5 k83. If you're happy with manual control, you need only 5 x 5552, one halffor each siding.[Edit]

Luís
Offline Midtfynsdata  
#15 Posted : 07 February 2007 00:00:23(UTC)
Midtfynsdata


Joined: 14/12/2006(UTC)
Posts: 37
Location: , Midtfyn
Thanks for the help laalves.... But I will be in contact biggrin
Regards
Stefan
Offline laalves  
#16 Posted : 07 February 2007 00:01:41(UTC)
laalves


Joined: 10/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,162
Location: Portugal
Note that I edited my reply above.

L
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