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Offline pmgsr  
#1 Posted : 28 December 2006 13:49:35(UTC)
pmgsr


Joined: 01/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 168
Location: Lisbon, Lisbon
Hi there!

Altought reading this forum for many time (years) i never wrote anything on it. I guess i was afraid of all this great brains talking about things they really know about it.
Now i forgot all those issues and decide to start writing (try to stop me now :-)
Of course that the time wasn't really much (not even now)... but i'm starting a new layout (i'll write about it on another message) and i'm resolving some issues - one of them is having my trains organized with the correct locos.

The point is... you have another Portuguese to bother you :-)

For starting i would like to use some of you knowledge to ask about what should be an ideal loco for the Rheingold set 4228, mainly from Marklin. Any sugestions?
(i already search the forum and found a remark abou t the 37186 - http://www.maerklin-info...einzelansicht/37186.jpg)

Thanks.
Pedro Rosa.
Linda-a-Velha / Lisbon, Portugal.
My Layout (Marklin, C-Track, Digital)
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#2 Posted : 28 December 2006 14:33:20(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Welcome to the forum. Pedro !

Unfortunately, I unable to answer your question, but I am convinced that some else here will do.

Pierre.
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#3 Posted : 28 December 2006 14:34:36(UTC)
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Hi Pedro,

First, welcome!
I (and I think we) like to have Portuguese members around. And hey, one of the best ways of gathering information is by asking it here. It's also nice you've tried the search first.
So, about the Rheingold set (which is an DRG, era II model) the best (read: most prototypical) option is to have a so called Bavarian S 3/6 (or from Era II: BR 18.4) to pull this beauty. I personally would go with a 37184, the same loco as the 37186, but in black with nice gold details.
Another nice option would be the 3711 (a Württemberger C in era II livery as BR 18.1) or the 37951 (A BR 03 in era II livery)
But, all models mentioned (untill now) are not available from the factory anymore, so you'll have to look for one sitting on the shelf of your dealer on for example ebay.
Good luck!
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
Offline DamonKelly  
#4 Posted : 28 December 2006 14:58:09(UTC)
DamonKelly

Australia   
Joined: 26/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,409
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by pmgsr
<br />Hi there!


Hi, and welcome to the forum, Pedro! Smile

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
Altought reading this forum for many time (years) i never wrote anything on it. I guess i was afraid of all this great brains talking about things they really know about it.


Well, lots of people talk a lot...whether they know anything is immaterial wink

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
...
Of course that the time wasn't really much (not even now)... but i'm starting a new layout (i'll write about it on another message) and i'm resolving some issues - one of them is having my trains organized with the correct locos.


I firmly believe that model trains are primarily for fun. The "correct" loco is fine and dandy, and almost always looks better, but using whatever you have, or whatever you want, is also quite allowable biggrin

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
The point is... you have another Portuguese to bother you :-)


Webmaster Juhan, we have yet another one! They are becoming a menace. I think a bounty is in order -- say €10 per head! That should clear them out! winkwinkwink

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
For starting i would like to use some of you knowledge to ask about what should be an ideal loco for the Rheingold set 4228, mainly from Marklin. Any sugestions?
(i already search the forum and found a remark abou t the 37186 - http://www.maerklin-info...einzelansicht/37186.jpg)


Ah!...the Rheingold set...truly beautiful! I have one myself.

In the 1997/1998 catalogue (when 4228 was still current), Märklin recommended the BR18.4 (33184 Delta, or 37184 Digital) as "a suitable model to go with this train".
I picked a 33184 up in Vienna (quite by accident), and have converted it to a 5-pole motor and ESU LokSound.

I believe there is some controversy about the specification of the BR18.4 as the "Rheingold loco". This Site reckons the BR18.4 (S3/6) is a correct loco.
I read on a another train-geek site about the Rheingold that the BR18.4 was not in fact correct -- or at least not the Märklin model. I dunno...confused

My understanding is that the BR18.4 is the DRG designation of the older K.Bay.Sts.B. S 3/6 (Royal Bavarian State Railroad). Märklin have made a number of models of this popular loco. The one you mention (37186) was a "special" created for some centenary of the Rheingold -- it never existed in 1928 or so. Märklin had a real S 3/6 = BR18.4 locomotive restored and repainted in the Rheingold colours in 2005 (I think -- might have been 2003 confused)
I'm sure other learned members will leap in here and correct everything I've said, but it's a start!

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
Thanks.


You're welcome wink

BTW, I love Portugal -- I know it intimately, having been there on a two week holiday for World Expo '98 in Lisbon. winkwink
Actually, I truly enjoyed Portugal, especially the food! Pork and clams...mmm...!

Seriously, you won't find a better train forum than this one (not just Märklin), and any questions you have, just ask away! People far more knowledgeable (and serious) than me will answer your questions.
Remember -- "There are no stupid questions, just stupid answers".
--
Cheers,
Damon
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#5 Posted : 28 December 2006 15:12:44(UTC)
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DamonKelly
<br />

My understanding is that the BR18.4 is the DRG designation of the older K.Bay.Sts.B. S 3/6 (Royal Bavarian State Railroad). Märklin have made a number of models of this popular loco. The one you mention (37186) was a "special" created for some centenary of the Rheingold -- it never existed in 1928 or so. Märklin had a real S 3/6 = BR18.4 locomotive restored and repainted in the Rheingold colours in 2005 (I think -- might have been 2003 confused)




Completely correct... The S 3/6 is the Bavarian (K.Bay.Sts.B.) name for the series that later on became the BR 18.4.
I have not found information yet that contradicts the information that the Rheingold was pulled by a BR 18.4. However, I do know it has been pulled by other locos as well.
The 37186 is indeed a Museumloc, painted in those colors in 2003. Earlier, this loc has been painted in quite bright green. (Märklin also made a model of that one: 33182/37182) Nowadays the loc is (AFAIK) still in the Rheingold livery as painted in that color one or two years ago. (This color scheme is used on the loco in the 26750 set Märklin released two years ago)
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
Offline DamonKelly  
#6 Posted : 28 December 2006 15:37:43(UTC)
DamonKelly

Australia   
Joined: 26/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,409
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Thanks Sander, nice to know I'm not completely ignorant! Smile

The comment about the Märklin BR18.4 (33184/37184) came from a web site that I can't remember [:(]. The comment was that the colours (gold band, mainly) and details were incorrect for a BR18.4 pulling a Rheingold. My opinion was that this was way too anorakish for me.

I am interested in the other locos that pulled the Rheingold. That site mentions several other locos -- did Märklin (or another quality i.e. 3-rail manufacturer) make models of these?

And Pedro, don't feel we've "hijacked" your question -- the best threads often end up in a wide ranging discussion.
--
Cheers,
Damon
Offline Davy  
#7 Posted : 28 December 2006 16:37:35(UTC)
Davy


Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,915
Location: Netherlands
Read this and put this website by your favorites.

http://www.dbtrains.com/...comotives/epochII/BR18.4

UserPostedImage

This is also a beautiful loc.
Which is also used in period II. This is the version around 1950. Just before the end of its life of this loctype br 18,1.

M-track with a CS2.
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#8 Posted : 28 December 2006 17:03:32(UTC)
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DamonKelly
<br />

did Märklin (or another quality i.e. 3-rail manufacturer) make models of these?



Okay, let's go for a short listing:

NS 3700 or 3900: as far as I know there was never a real series of these locs in model, perhaps Philotrain has made it once. (But in that case only two-rail and probably extremely expensive)

BR 18.3: produced by Liliput in several versions. Up to now only in two-rail.

BR 18.4: produced by Märklin and others, Roco for example has a very nicely detailled version, also in three-rail Märklin system.

BR 18.4-5: Märklin made one, the 33183, only in Delta, limited series, in an interesting blue color. The model is not completely prototypical since the S 3/6 (K), which is the predecessor of the BR 18.4-5, has a square roof of the housing instead of the one with the rounded front like the S 3/6 (BR 18.4). Despite of that fact, the 33183 is equipped with such a rounded front. Note: The BR 18.4-5 is not the same as the BR 18.5 produced by Fleischmann. The BR 18.4-5 is originally a Bavarian S 3/6 of a later series than the BR 18.4, the BR 18.5 is a DRG (era II) "nachbau" of the Bavarian S 3/6.
(I hope this is not getting to confusing wink )

BR 38.10-40: As the website states was used if needed, is originally a Prussian P8 and produced by Märklin in several versions. The 37030 is an Era III version, the 37032 would be most prototypical to haul the Rheingold as it is an era II version.

By the way: an interesting overview of models produced per baureihe can be found here: www.osterthun.com/models.htm

Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#9 Posted : 28 December 2006 17:07:22(UTC)
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Whoops... forgot one: the Swiss Ae 4/7: is an electric loc and produced in H0 by HAG. (Both two- and three-rail)

Another fact: the beautiful picture posted by Davy shows the BR 18.1 (Württ. C) which I mentioned in the first reply. According to the website presented by Damon it is not completely prototypical to use this loco to haul the Rheingold. Although it is an express loco from that era, and extremely beautiful indeed.
Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
Offline pmgsr  
#10 Posted : 28 December 2006 17:29:58(UTC)
pmgsr


Joined: 01/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 168
Location: Lisbon, Lisbon

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by PierreGILLARD
<br />Welcome to the forum. Pedro !


Thanks Pierre!
Pedro Rosa.
Linda-a-Velha / Lisbon, Portugal.
My Layout (Marklin, C-Track, Digital)
Offline pmgsr  
#11 Posted : 28 December 2006 17:44:07(UTC)
pmgsr


Joined: 01/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 168
Location: Lisbon, Lisbon
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Sander van Wijk
<br />First, welcome!
I (and I think we) like to have Portuguese members around. And hey, one of the best ways of gathering information is by asking it here. It's also nice you've tried the search first.


Thanks... yes i know what you mean, there's a lot of questions being asked that have been already asked before.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:So, about the Rheingold set (which is an DRG, era II model) the best (read: most prototypical) option is to have a so called Bavarian S 3/6 (or from Era II: BR 18.4) to pull this beauty. I personally would go with a 37184, the same loco as the 37186, but in black with nice gold details.


Lovely locos! I'm starting to search those :-)
Look at this auction: http://cgi.ebay.es/MARKL...eNameZWD1VQQcmdZViewItem
Am i wrong or the gold details are missing? :-)

The 37186 is lovely! But a little bit expensive.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
Another nice option would be the 3711 (a Württemberger C in era II livery as BR 18.1)


I can have the 37113 but it should not be an ideal choice for this train.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote: But, all models mentioned (untill now) are not available from the factory anymore, so you'll have to look for one sitting on the shelf of your dealer on for example ebay.
Good luck!


I don't want to make off-topic remarks, but i have some ways of arranging some old stuff in Portugal, mainly from Marklin (I have a website - with portuguese documentation and used stuff - i can you give the site in a few weeks, it's now being updated).

But as you say, ebay is a nice way to get some Marklin stuff - this 4228 was bought on ebay.

Thanks again.
Pedro Rosa.
Linda-a-Velha / Lisbon, Portugal.
My Layout (Marklin, C-Track, Digital)
Offline pmgsr  
#12 Posted : 28 December 2006 17:53:21(UTC)
pmgsr


Joined: 01/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 168
Location: Lisbon, Lisbon
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by pmgsr
<br />Hi there!
Hi, and welcome to the forum, Pedro! Smile


Thanks Again! - and for all other guys that are being so friendly!

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
I firmly believe that model trains are primarily for fun. The "correct" loco is fine and dandy, and almost always looks better, but using whatever you have, or whatever you want, is also quite allowable biggrin


Yes, i also think that imagination should be part of model railroad fun... yesterday i bought 6 Lemke Coca-Cola packages - lovely stuff, but i don't know if they ever existed!

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
Webmaster Juhan, we have yet another one! They are becoming a menace. I think a bounty is in order -- say €10 per head! That should clear them out! winkwinkwink


We're taking over the World, starting at this Forum :-)

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:I picked a 33184 up in Vienna (quite by accident), and have converted it to a 5-pole motor and ESU LokSound.


That's what i want to do, also ;-)

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
BTW, I love Portugal -- I know it intimately, having been there on a two week holiday for World Expo '98 in Lisbon. winkwink
Actually, I truly enjoyed Portugal, especially the food! Pork and clams...mmm...!


I thought that you would start talking about the Euro 2004 :-)
There are any greeks out there?!?! - i know that they are there!

Nevertheless we are known to be friendly.

Pedro Rosa.
Linda-a-Velha / Lisbon, Portugal.
My Layout (Marklin, C-Track, Digital)
Offline pmgsr  
#13 Posted : 28 December 2006 17:56:03(UTC)
pmgsr


Joined: 01/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 168
Location: Lisbon, Lisbon
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
And Pedro, don't feel we've "hijacked" your question -- the best threads often end up in a wide ranging discussion.


No, it was a pleasure to look at the "real" Rheingold on that link... even being pulled with a V200 (well, that solves my problem :-)
Pedro Rosa.
Linda-a-Velha / Lisbon, Portugal.
My Layout (Marklin, C-Track, Digital)
Offline Davy  
#14 Posted : 28 December 2006 18:56:04(UTC)
Davy


Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,915
Location: Netherlands
Pedro Miguel,

Welcome to the forum. Marklin loc 37113 is indeed a very nice machine but not the best machine for the Rheingold set I think.

UserPostedImage

M-track with a CS2.
Offline steventrain  
#15 Posted : 28 December 2006 18:57:56(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,750
Welcome to the forum Miguel.Smile
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline steventrain  
#16 Posted : 28 December 2006 18:59:08(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 32,750
Nice pictures and links Davy!
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline nevw  
#17 Posted : 29 December 2006 00:44:42(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,004
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Welcome Pedro.

Would a Db 110 Elec Lok in Cream and Blue also go with the Rheingold set ??

That is what I got to match my Set Smile

Nev
wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline HueyCE  
#18 Posted : 29 December 2006 03:24:54(UTC)
HueyCE


Joined: 12/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,528
Location: Groton, Connecticut
Welcome to the forum Pedro. If you do wind up getting a 37184, you won't be disappointed, mine is a good runner, although I don't have the 4228 set for it pull.
Sander-Cool site, I've bookmarked it.
Ira
Building German Era I-II layout(Mk IIIc).UserPostedImage

Offline mrmarklin  
#19 Posted : 29 December 2006 05:40:10(UTC)
mrmarklin

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 773
Location: Burney, CA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by pmgsr
<br />Hi there!

Altought reading this forum for many time (years) i never wrote anything on it. I guess i was afraid of all this great brains talking about things they really know about it.
Now i forgot all those issues and decide to start writing (try to stop me now :-)
Of course that the time wasn't really much (not even now)... but i'm starting a new layout (i'll write about it on another message) and i'm resolving some issues - one of them is having my trains organized with the correct locos.

The point is... you have another Portuguese to bother you :-)

For starting i would like to use some of you knowledge to ask about what should be an ideal loco for the Rheingold set 4228, mainly from Marklin. Any sugestions?
(i already search the forum and found a remark abou t the 37186 - http://www.maerklin-info...einzelansicht/37186.jpg)

Thanks.


The lok that came out contemporary with this set is #3618. It's DRG and is perfect with the 4228 set.
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
Offline pmgsr  
#20 Posted : 29 December 2006 16:45:53(UTC)
pmgsr


Joined: 01/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 168
Location: Lisbon, Lisbon
[quoteThe lok that came out contemporary with this set is #3618. It's DRG and is perfect with the 4228 set.


That's also a great looking loco. After a few searchs i guess that it's one loco easy to buy (in what conditions i don't know :-)
Pedro Rosa.
Linda-a-Velha / Lisbon, Portugal.
My Layout (Marklin, C-Track, Digital)
Offline DamonKelly  
#21 Posted : 29 December 2006 17:38:08(UTC)
DamonKelly

Australia   
Joined: 26/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,409
Location: Brisbane, QLD
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
Nevertheless we are known to be friendly.


I shall take this on advisement. My shotgun is loaded, and Webmaster Juhan has been advised of the potential Portuguese infestation problem winkwinkwink

Back to our regular program...

I believe the "Rheingold" service was continued after the war, and indeed an electric loco was used. In fact, I think Märklin made locos to suit. Search the Märklin database for "Rheingold".

The classic is the original set (Märklin 4228), which really needs a looooong steam loco to look right. I did notice that the P8 was occasionally used...good! I have the blue P8 "Hobby" 3091, so I can alternate. biggrin

That eBay item seems, well, odd...
The 33184 I have (literally in front of me now) has a prominent gold band around the smoke stack, and in particular, some gold bands around the boiler. Mine is marked "18 427" on the cab.
I'll venture a guess that the item is not a real 37184, but an older model fitted with a new decoder. Note that the Märklin 37184 did not have sound.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
I thought that you would start talking about the Euro 2004 :-)

So, this "Euro 2004" thang...
Is it some sporting competition? I confess to being utterly uninterested in sports, except for when Australia reached the semi-finals in the Soccer/Football World Cup in 2006. MrsKelly and I were having dinner in a restaurant in Reykjavík on the night in question, when those bastard Italians stole the game from us!
I did note the locals were sympathetic to the Aussies, rather than the Italians. biggrin
--
Cheers,
Damon
Offline pmgsr  
#22 Posted : 29 December 2006 17:53:34(UTC)
pmgsr


Joined: 01/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 168
Location: Lisbon, Lisbon
[quoteThat eBay item seems, well, odd...
The 33184 I have (literally in front of me now) has a prominent gold band around the smoke stack, and in particular, some gold bands around the boiler. Mine is marked "18 427" on the cab.
I'll venture a guess that the item is not a real 37184, but an older model fitted with a new decoder. Note that the Märklin 37184 did not have sound.
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:

It seemed odd to me too!
I can tell you that i became a great lover of 37186 [:p] what a lovely loco... came with sound from Marklin.

Quote:

So, this "Euro 2004" thang...


It's the same as the World Cup you were talking about, but only for the Europeans - for us it's the same crazy time as with the World Cup. Well, we lost with the greeks in the final... (and, you remember, we lost in the semi-final of the World Cup also). We continue to be "almost" champions biggrin
Pedro Rosa.
Linda-a-Velha / Lisbon, Portugal.
My Layout (Marklin, C-Track, Digital)
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