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Do Marklin locomotives have a flywheel ?
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Offline Biased turkey  
#1 Posted : 11 October 2006 13:23:12(UTC)
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Biased turkey


Joined: 02/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 73
Location: Montreal, Quebec
So far I'm in the N scale business ( I expect to graduate in the HO league this week when the cute mailwoman will deliver my Marklin starter set )
I own a Fleischmann class 53 DCC tender loco and a Life-Like DC GP18 diesel loco. One has a flywheel ( the GP18 ) while the Fleischmann doesn't. It really makes a big difference when a loco has a flywheel.
So, my question is:
Do the Marklin HO locos have a flywheel ?
Tia for any info.

Jacques in Montreal
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 11 October 2006 13:28:44(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,456
Location: DE-NW
Some have a flywheel.
The "ordinary" M* motor has a heavy anchor and runs OK w/o flywheel.
With digital operation you have acceleration and braking delay - flywheels don't make a big difference then.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Davy  
#3 Posted : 11 October 2006 14:22:20(UTC)
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Davy


Joined: 29/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,915
Location: Netherlands
Most new Marklin locs have a flywheel. Even the new hobbylocs have a engine with a little flywheel. Even the new sinusengine has a flywheel.

M-track with a CS2.
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Offline steventrain  
#4 Posted : 11 October 2006 18:23:19(UTC)
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steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,697
Location: United Kingdom
The new model will have every flywheel.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Offline hxmiesa  
#5 Posted : 11 October 2006 18:40:39(UTC)
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hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,595
Location: Spain
Older analog Märklin locos dont need a flywheel, as they dont have a permanent magnet (DC-type) motor.

Most newer locos with the HL-motor (The most common 5 pole motor with a 60901 type decoder) doesnt have a flywheel, and relies on its decoder to achieve smooth running. (not too good in analog operation, stopping in powerless sections)

Old-type C-sine IS in fact a flywheel, but newer type C-sine (compact) doesnt have much mass, and relies again on its electronics to achieve smooth operation.
As others have stated, some newer locos are appearing with extra flywheels anyway (thanks M!) -but in any case you should CHECK each individual loco first!
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline Hemmerich  
#6 Posted : 11 October 2006 23:51:39(UTC)
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Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
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Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hxmiesa
Old-type C-sine IS in fact a flywheel, but newer type C-sine (compact) doesnt have much mass, and relies again on its electronics to achieve smooth operation.


Most models equipped with the new C-sine have a flywheel; it is usually mounted between the C-Sine and gear. Latest example is the new V200 021 (#39800) - with real excellent driving performance.

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Offline Biased turkey  
#7 Posted : 13 October 2006 20:40:47(UTC)
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Biased turkey


Joined: 02/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 73
Location: Montreal, Quebec
Thank you all for the information, but now I'm even more confused because I didn't know Marklin has so many type of motors ( C-sine, HL motor etc.. )and decoders available.
For example, the loco that comes with my srarterer set is the class 86 tank loco ( part # 29533 ). There is an exploded view of all the loco parts, but I can't find anything that looks like a flywheel.
By the way, how can one says "flywheel " in German ?
The pictures posted by Hemmerich doesn't help because there is not such a think like that one on my exploded view.

to hxmiesa:
"Most newer locos with the HL-motor (The most common 5 pole motor with a 60901 type decoder) doesnt have a flywheel, and relies on its decoder to achieve smooth running."

Imho no electronic type decoder can replace the "real" inertia from the loco mass or from a flywheel.
Maybe it is less important with HO scale because an average HO loco has enough inertia for a smooth run, while in N scale the sltghtest flys..t can stop a flywheelless loco dead on the track.
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Offline Hemmerich  
#8 Posted : 13 October 2006 22:31:28(UTC)
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Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
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Hi Jacques,

you stated a general question (based upon your assumption of more or less only one motor type for any model), but didn't tell upfront which specific Märklin loco you meant. That's why you got those answers; mine was more in response to the wrong assumption that the new compact C-Sine would not have a flywheel.

The BR86 (of the set you refer to) has a 5-pole HLA motor with a special (and quite strong) magnet; i.e. by that it is a simple DC motor. The mechanics equivalent to Märklin product #60904/60924 - you can view this for example on the Märklin product page.

Following is a pic of this model & motor (yours matches the one in front).

UserPostedImage

That motor type doesn't have a flywheel, neither do the other "traditional" ones like SFCM and LFCM (see inet for explanation). The corresponding decoder takes care of the neccessary acceleration/deceleration delays (when driving in digital mode); i.e. flywheel mass substitution.

Indeed HO - and especially Märklin "heavy metal" biggrin - models have a quite different mass than N or even Z models.

The German word "Flywheel" is "Schwungrad" or "Schwungscheibe". wink

PS: Newer GFN locos/motors have some metal pieces inside the anchor which provide some kind of a flywheel mass.
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Offline WelshMatt  
#9 Posted : 13 October 2006 23:13:26(UTC)
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WelshMatt


Joined: 06/10/2006(UTC)
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Marklin locos don't tend to need flywheels in my experience - after I cleaned the commutator and oiled the bearings the three I have will all amble along slowly enough to count the wheel spokes!
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
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Offline MärCo  
#10 Posted : 13 October 2006 23:21:19(UTC)
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MärCo


Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,159
Location: The Netherlands
36871 has a small flywheel (latest version of the KLVM locomotive).

UserPostedImage
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
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Offline WelshMatt  
#11 Posted : 13 October 2006 23:23:12(UTC)
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WelshMatt


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That looks like the motor Hornby use in their smallest locos. How does it behave in this loco? The Hornby ones tend to be ok if used on a decent controller and well run in, though they will go ballistic if you're not gentle with the throttle.
Matt from Wales.

When you pay Range Rover prices, don't accept Lada quality
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Offline Hemmerich  
#12 Posted : 13 October 2006 23:28:49(UTC)
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Hemmerich


Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC)
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Has nothing to do with Hornby.

For driving characteristics, just take a look at the earlier threads about this loco (36381/KLVM) or the new 36322 (BR81).
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Offline MärCo  
#13 Posted : 13 October 2006 23:46:55(UTC)
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MärCo


Joined: 06/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,159
Location: The Netherlands
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by WelshMatt
<br />That looks like the motor Hornby use in their smallest locos. How does it behave in this loco? The Hornby ones tend to be ok if used on a decent controller and well run in, though they will go ballistic if you're not gentle with the throttle.

In combination with a 66045 it is a very fine shunting engine.
Absolutly AFB-NOHAB fan ;-)
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