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Setting digital addr of mfx decoder-translation ??
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Offline clapcott  
#1 Posted : 05 October 2006 22:58:05(UTC)
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clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,448
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
I must be loosing it, or hopefully it is a translation error.

pg 13 of the MM has a Q/A about setting the digital address of an mfx decoder with a Central Station.

In reply it says that it can't be done. you can only do it using a 6021.
On the following page however it pictures the CS screen with the value for "Addresse motorola" (but dosn't talk about it)

I agree that the statemens made would be correct if talking about an MS but I have had no problems setting the digital address of mfx decoders.

Has anyone else ?

What am I missing here confused
Peter
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Offline martinfung  
#2 Posted : 05 October 2006 23:22:22(UTC)
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martinfung


Joined: 18/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 198
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
From my experience, once you've placed an mfx locomotive on the track connected to a CS and choose Edit, the decoder selection will be greyed out and you can't change it to other type (e.g. Motorola) or enter an address. That's probably why the Q/A says it can't be done with CS on an mfx locomotive.

OTOH, when you place an fx locomotive and choose Edit, you are allowed to change the decoder type (but mfx is not an offered option there) and address.

Correction: CS with mfx: decoder delection is greyed out, but you can still change the motorola address.
Still beginner, no layout, random buying
O-gauge, 3R Scale US Steamers (avatar is not of my collection, but the models are nice)
Märklin HO anything :-)
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Offline prc  
#3 Posted : 06 October 2006 05:38:20(UTC)
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prc


Joined: 05/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 283
Location: Granby, Ct
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by martinfung
<br />From my experience, once you've placed an mfx locomotive on the track connected to a CS and choose Edit, the decoder selection will be greyed out and you can't change it to other type (e.g. Motorola) or enter an address. That's probably why the Q/A says it can't be done with CS on an mfx locomotive.


You can also use the LokProgrammer to set the digital addresses.

Regards
Paul
Granby, Ct.
USA
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Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 06 October 2006 10:06:22(UTC)
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clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,448
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by martinfung
<br />From my experience, once you've placed an mfx locomotive on the track connected to a CS and choose Edit, the decoder selection will be greyed out and you can't change it to other type (e.g. Motorola) or enter an address. That's probably why the Q/A says it can't be done with CS on an mfx locomotive.


If so then , yes, it would explain the statement.

In my experience the "Decoder" field is greyed out, as you say, BUT I CAN change the (motorola) address.

So there appears to be a variation out there!
Is it the decoders or the CS ?
Peter
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Offline martinfung  
#5 Posted : 06 October 2006 20:35:07(UTC)
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martinfung


Joined: 18/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 198
Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by clapcott
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by martinfung
<br />From my experience, once you've placed an mfx locomotive on the track connected to a CS and choose Edit, the decoder selection will be greyed out and you can't change it to other type (e.g. Motorola) or enter an address. That's probably why the Q/A says it can't be done with CS on an mfx locomotive.


If so then , yes, it would explain the statement.

In my experience the "Decoder" field is greyed out, as you say, BUT I CAN change the (motorola) address.

So there appears to be a variation out there!
Is it the decoders or the CS ?
Sorry Peter, my mistake. I was posting from my memory. When I got home last night I tried the CS and I've found the same thing, I *CAN* change the motorola address even though the decoder selection was greyed out.

I think the Q/A statement was incorrect. May be it's trying to state mfx addresses aren't changeable. But then I don't know why 6021 was mentioned in the same sentence.
Still beginner, no layout, random buying
O-gauge, 3R Scale US Steamers (avatar is not of my collection, but the models are nice)
Märklin HO anything :-)
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Offline clapcott  
#6 Posted : 07 October 2006 03:40:54(UTC)
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clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,448
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Thanks Martin,

I have to comment that I find this article hard to read and - much like the Q&A in the Insider - bloated (unecessary wordage), incomplete (perspective) and lacking succinctness.

At he end of page 15 in the section on using the "Connect 6017(60129)" with 6017/6015 boosters is the paragraph ...

"Another important tip: The boosters are not able to transmit pure mfx data. Therefore , when using the Connect 6017, it is advisable to include a virtual locamotive with a digital decoder in the locomotive list and for this locomotive either activate a function or prescribe an operating speed"

I find there are just too many What ? and Whys ? about this statement. All it has done is introduce a lot of confusion.
Peter
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Offline kgsjoqvist  
#7 Posted : 13 October 2006 14:47:52(UTC)
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kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 754
Location: Täby
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by clapcott
<br />Thanks Martin,

I have to comment that I find this article hard to read and - much like the Q&A in the Insider - bloated (unecessary wordage), incomplete (perspective) and lacking succinctness.

At he end of page 15 in the section on using the "Connect 6017(60129)" with 6017/6015 boosters is the paragraph ...

"Another important tip: The boosters are not able to transmit pure mfx data. Therefore , when using the Connect 6017, it is advisable to include a virtual locamotive with a digital decoder in the locomotive list and for this locomotive either activate a function or prescribe an operating speed"

I find there are just too many What ? and Whys ? about this statement. All it has done is introduce a lot of confusion.



I read this article yesterday and it confused me a lot. What it states is that the "pure" mfx-signal doesn't pass through the booster. So what you have to do is use the MM protocol. But then what is the **** mfx good for anyway??? And if this is correct, it means that when an mfx loco reaches a "boosted" segment it doesn't receive information from the CS anymore...

Or is it just a precaution in case the mfx loco happens to be on the booster segment when the CS is switched off. So when you start the CS again it doesn't recognize the mfx decoder ... no - it makes no sense at all.
K-G / H0 and Z model train user
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Offline perz  
#8 Posted : 13 October 2006 20:43:22(UTC)
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perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:I read this article yesterday and it confused me a lot. What it states is that the "pure" mfx-signal doesn't pass through the booster. So what you have to do is use the MM protocol. But then what is the **** mfx good for anyway??? And if this is correct, it means that when an mfx loco reaches a "boosted" segment it doesn't receive information from the CS anymore...

Or is it just a precaution in case the mfx loco happens to be on the booster segment when the CS is switched off. So when you start the CS again it doesn't recognize the mfx decoder ... no - it makes no sense at all.


If you happen to know how the old boosters (6015 qnd 6017) work, you know that they transmit any purely digital signal in the outwards direction and do not transmit anything (except the "stop" signal) in the inwards direction.

I think Märklin tries to say something completely different:

If you use old boosters, and all your mfx locos stand in the boostered sections, and you have no "conventional digital" loco activated on the CS, the CS will think it does not command any locos at all and therefore will continue the search for mfx locos forever and never get to the normal operating state.

Just a guess. If I had a CS, I could test. But I don't have any.
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Offline Lars Westerlind  
#9 Posted : 13 October 2006 21:16:13(UTC)
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Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Seems likely perz, but I would modify the guess to only concern special situations like startup. Or overcome a bug in the CS. Because, I would expect CS to behave like the MobStat; once a mfx loco is recognized it continues to send commands even if contact is lost.

/Lars
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Offline clapcott  
#10 Posted : 14 October 2006 12:39:10(UTC)
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clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,448
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by kgsjoqvist

I read this article yesterday and it confused me a lot. What it states is that the "pure" mfx-signal doesn't pass through the booster. So what you have to do is use the MM protocol. But then what is the **** mfx good for anyway??? And if this is correct, it means that when an mfx loco reaches a "boosted" segment it doesn't receive information from the CS anymore...


OK. I think I have it ...

This issue with the "pure" mfx-signal is documented and one I can shed some light on. It is to do with the way the booster "thinks" there is a short by detecting the agregate of the signal - in Marklin Motorola this, on average, is negative. It would appear that a signal with only MFX is slightly positve.
NOTE WELL this has echos of a similar problem experienced with the Intellibox when configured for DCC operation - see http://www.rjftrains.com/intellibox/notes.htm for a description and workaround.

For the CS - at least one Motorola Loco needs to be defined in order for the average signal to be &lt;0 and therefore prevent the 6017 from shuting down.

That said - once a motorola address (ANY address) is defined AND A COMMAND HAS BEEN ISSUED TO IT the 6017 will stay on. AND mfx command will get through (one way).

So, if this is what the "Tip" was trying to communicate, I think I have answered my own question. And confirmed that the translation has a bit to be desired (At least for my NZ style of english)

Peter
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