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7244 universal relay - need to understand
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Offline hagstrom88  
#1 Posted : 27 September 2005 01:08:16(UTC)
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hagstrom88


Joined: 29/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 38
Location: Ronninge, Stockholm
Hi, my 2nd post - and you can see that I am a newbie after returning to the hobby after 30 yrs... so much has happened.

OK - can someone pls tell me - in simple words - I am not much of an engineer - how the 7244 works. I got a few and the instruction actually dont help me :(

I planned to use it with contact tracks and connect the contact track to the 7244 and thus making "other things" happen - like switching switches etc - I understand this is the purpose of this thing?!

A) The 7244 has 2 blue and 1 yellow cable - where do they go? - contact track? I understand where the yellow goes - but the 2 blue ones?
B) On the 7244 there are 4 sections of contacts grouped in 3. They are marked 1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2-3. I guess I will connect the switches here but... the switch has 2 blue and 1 yellow. Where do the 2 blue ones go? 1 2 or 3? I guess I will only connect one of the blues to set the switch but where - 1 2 or 3?

I would really appreciate if anyone could help!

Thanks
Thoams
Thomas Hagström
Stockholm, Sweden
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Offline franciscohg  
#2 Posted : 27 September 2005 02:47:06(UTC)
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franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,298
Location: Patagonia
Hi, i will try to explain, not a drawing at hand.
1) turnouts are powered, you don't need a relay to make them work, just connect it directly to the contact track.
2) i don't have 7244, only 7245 but the principle is the same.
the yellow cable goes to L and then power the relay solenoid.
the blue ones are conected to the contact track to complete the circuit and then move the solenoid to the right or to the left. and what happens?
if you have a power line connected to 2, you will have a complete cirtuit to 1 or 3, depending on wich way the solenoid moves.

For more information, drawings and examples you can download the 0340 signal book at www.marklin.com

hope this helps
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
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Offline McLae  
#3 Posted : 27 September 2005 02:49:27(UTC)
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McLae


Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX
Two terms for you to learn:
selenoid and relay.
Selenoid is the part that changes the settings. In the old Marklin signals, this was a big coil of wire and a chunck of metal that moved back and forth. (Went 'Klump' when thrown)
The relay is the part that changes from connecting 'A' to 'B' to connecting 'B' to 'C'.

One selenoid can operate more than one relay.

I found a picture of a 7244, enought for me to describe how this works.
The 7244 has a yellow and two blue wires. There are 4 relays controlled by one selenoid.
Yellow is power just like a switch.
Marklin does now mark which blue wire is which, so you will have to test to see which is which. Label them 'Left'(red) and 'right' (green).
When power is connected to the Yellos, grounding the Left wire will connect all 1 connections to the ajacent 2 connector. Grounding the Right will connect all the 2 connectors to the ajacent 3 connector.

On one set of three, you could connect a signal's red to 1, green to 3, and power (or ground) to 2. on another set, connect track power to 2, and a wire to the track to 3. Grounding left will show red on the signal and torn off track power, Grounding right will show green and turn on track power.

Confused yet?
This relay is wired the same as the Viessmann 5551 relay.
Diagrams here http://www.viessmann-modell.com/pdf/5551.pdf and here http://www.viessmann-modell.com/pdf/5549.pdf
The McLae
IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V
Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
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Offline Maxi  
#4 Posted : 27 September 2005 03:10:19(UTC)
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Maxi


Joined: 28/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 757
Location: Wawa, Ontario
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hagstrom88
<br />A) The 7244 has 2 blue and 1 yellow cable - where do they go? - contact track? I understand where the yellow goes - but the 2 blue ones?


I do not have any of these relays but I will put my 2 cents worth in.

The 2 blue wires on the 7244 relay is what will determine which way the contacts of the relay will be positioned. Either making a connection between contacts 1-2 or contacts 2-3. When using the contact tracks to activate the relay then one of the blue wires would be connected to the contact track section and when a wheel set from a locomotive or railcar is in the contact zone (assuming that the wheel set is not insulated) the circuit is complete allowing the coil on one side of the relay to energize. Connecting the other blue wire to another contact track will activate the relay in a opposite direction when a non insulated wheel set is in the contact track section.

A word of note, it would be advisable to make sure that the relays are not energized for a long duration as this may allow the coil in the relay to warm up and possibly cause damage to the relay (as long as a non insulated wheel set is in a contact section the circuit to one side of the relay wil remain energized.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
B) On the 7244 there are 4 sections of contacts grouped in 3. They are marked 1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2-3. I guess I will connect the switches here but... the switch has 2 blue and 1 yellow. Where do the 2 blue ones go? 1 2 or 3? I guess I will only connect one of the blues to set the switch but where - 1 2 or 3?



I would assume that the blue wires would go to the contacts labeled 1 or 3. Contact 2 would be connected to the brown terminal on the transformer. The yellow wire on the switch would be connected to the yellow terminal on the transformer.

All 4 sets of contacts switch the same way, eg. all would have contacts 1-2 set or contacts 2-3 set depending on which way the 7244 relay is set. Again make sure that if something is being connected to the contacts of the 7244 relay that the items are able to handle the continuous power. Some switches have end power cut off so this would not be a problem (eg. the switches for the k-track and c-track turnouts).

I also remember somewhere on the internet that an article was posted on how to split the 7244 relay in two so that you would have two sets of contacts. This may be handy if you are just using one or two sets of the contact and the others are sitting vacant. The modification is very simple, I just can't locate the document at the moment.

Should I have any errors in my reply please do not hesitate in pointing them out.

Hope this helps in your quest of model railroading.

Update:
Precistence pays off, I have found to link once again.
The site does how ever have popups.

Here is the link for those of you who are interested in splitting your 7244 relay into 2 groups of two and be able to switch the two groups independently.

http://members.tripod.com/~Bardioc/Seite02/index-2a.html
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Offline Lars Westerlind  
#5 Posted : 27 September 2005 10:18:51(UTC)
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Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
More confusion :-)
This relay, as all other Märklin relays, is bi-stable, meaning that it has two distinct states, and it remains in the state it got last alsow when it has no power. For simplicity (or confusion) i usually call these states red and green. It's true that a short (or long) pulse of grounding one of the blue cables causes the relay to change state, and this may be done by contact track, control box, or decoder k83.
State red causes the contacts 1 to have connection with 2. State green causes the contacts 3 to have connection with 2. Can be used for almost any purpose, but isn't intended for turnouts; turnouts need a shorter pulse, the relay delivers a continous current.

About solenoids; actually Märklin items like this contain a double-solenoid; two solenoids operating together, one to get state red, the other to get state green. There are exceptions like the decoupler track (one single solenoids). In electronics monostable relays are common, normally also with a single solenoid. In the 1950's Märklin had a turnout (haven't seen it myself) with a single solenoid, every pulse caused it to change state, meaning two wires were enough.

/Lars
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Offline hagstrom88  
#6 Posted : 27 September 2005 20:43:15(UTC)
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hagstrom88


Joined: 29/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 38
Location: Ronninge, Stockholm
Thank you everyone - I think I got it ! I hoped that the Marklin homepage would be of help but theirs "Datenbank" just show a picture of the product... Once again - thanks everyone!
Thomas
Thomas Hagström
Stockholm, Sweden
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Offline antrains48  
#7 Posted : 01 September 2006 05:40:30(UTC)
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antrains48


Joined: 03/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: , MD
This link (below by Maxi), and the idea is very useful to know( though I will need time to organize its translation ), particularly since 7245 is no longer available. But does anyone have a circuit diagram of the 7244 or half of that. I am interested in a non-mechanical half 7244 (similar to 7245) version that can be made from Radio Shack components. Maybe there is one already available at Radio Shack, but I am no expert, I need help in getting there.

In short, I need to run a few motors that need reverse polarity, where a relay would be better and also for other similar uses. A 7244 is too expensive for just these independent tasks. So if I can make one from off the shelf components that will help. Thanks all....

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Maxi
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by hagstrom88
<br />A) The 7244 has 2 blue and 1 yellow cable - where do they go? - contact track? I understand where the yellow goes - but the 2 blue ones?


I do not have any of these relays but I will put my 2 cents worth in.

The 2 blue wires on the 7244 relay is what will determine which way the contacts of the relay will be positioned. Either making a connection between contacts 1-2 or contacts 2-3. When using the contact tracks to activate the relay then one of the blue wires would be connected to the contact track section and when a wheel set from a locomotive or railcar is in the contact zone (assuming that the wheel set is not insulated) the circuit is complete allowing the coil on one side of the relay to energize. Connecting the other blue wire to another contact track will activate the relay in a opposite direction when a non insulated wheel set is in the contact track section.

A word of note, it would be advisable to make sure that the relays are not energized for a long duration as this may allow the coil in the relay to warm up and possibly cause damage to the relay (as long as a non insulated wheel set is in a contact section the circuit to one side of the relay wil remain energized.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:
B) On the 7244 there are 4 sections of contacts grouped in 3. They are marked 1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2-3 1-2-3. I guess I will connect the switches here but... the switch has 2 blue and 1 yellow. Where do the 2 blue ones go? 1 2 or 3? I guess I will only connect one of the blues to set the switch but where - 1 2 or 3?



I would assume that the blue wires would go to the contacts labeled 1 or 3. Contact 2 would be connected to the brown terminal on the transformer. The yellow wire on the switch would be connected to the yellow terminal on the transformer.

All 4 sets of contacts switch the same way, eg. all would have contacts 1-2 set or contacts 2-3 set depending on which way the 7244 relay is set. Again make sure that if something is being connected to the contacts of the 7244 relay that the items are able to handle the continuous power. Some switches have end power cut off so this would not be a problem (eg. the switches for the k-track and c-track turnouts).

I also remember somewhere on the internet that an article was posted on how to split the 7244 relay in two so that you would have two sets of contacts. This may be handy if you are just using one or two sets of the contact and the others are sitting vacant. The modification is very simple, I just can't locate the document at the moment.

Should I have any errors in my reply please do not hesitate in pointing them out.

Hope this helps in your quest of model railroading.

Update:
Precistence pays off, I have found to link once again.
The site does how ever have popups.

Here is the link for those of you who are interested in splitting your 7244 relay into 2 groups of two and be able to switch the two groups independently.

http://members.tripod.com/~Bardioc/Seite02/index-2a.html
http://www.trainaidsa.com
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Offline Rowan  
#8 Posted : 01 September 2006 18:49:02(UTC)
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Rowan


Joined: 09/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,278
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Good link antrains48.
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Offline Munich 1860  
#9 Posted : 02 September 2006 14:53:00(UTC)
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Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,062
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by antrains48
<br />http://members.tripod.com/~Bardioc/Seite02/index-2a.html
Hello Everybody,

please take note that the gentleman who set up this wonderful site which is full of VERY helpful information concerning all aspects of Märklin railroading,

Michael Preiskorn

sadly died as long ago as May 2001. His site is kept up by his family and friends to honor his achievements and to offer some memories ...

If you remove everything after Bardioc in the above link, you will get to the startpage. The guest book regrettably fills itself up with a lot of spam in the meantime, but all in all it is still an outstandung source of electronics and other tips.

Many regards,

Hans
I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
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Offline ZDA  
#10 Posted : 11 September 2006 02:27:48(UTC)
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ZDA


Joined: 26/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 19
Location: ,
Hi!
Indeed it is one god site. I got a lot of inspirations from Michael´s projects and was chocked when I read that he passed away being only 32 years old, if I remember it correctly.
/ART
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Offline antrains48  
#11 Posted : 15 September 2006 04:02:53(UTC)
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antrains48


Joined: 03/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: , MD
Sorry to hear from MUNICH that Michael Preiskorn passed away. Though this is a very effective way to increase the utility of the 7244, but I would like someones help in understanding the following:

"To use the relay with alternating current, two diodes (e.g. 1N 4002) must be installed." Can someone guide me as to where? Are we talking about one each in the blue wire connection?

Also I understand that 7244 is no longer being produced. Does someone have a ciruit diagram with the parts including the relay component part number or its Radio Shack or any manufacturer's item number. That will help. Thanks all.
http://www.trainaidsa.com
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Offline Lars Westerlind  
#12 Posted : 15 September 2006 09:42:06(UTC)
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Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Source of information antrains48, please. Märklin says it's available from factory, where have you checked before spreading such disinformation?

Viessmann has the same properties in 5551. Roco at least had a relay in the past, possibly now as well.

Regards,
Lars
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Offline Munich 1860  
#13 Posted : 15 September 2006 13:05:04(UTC)
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Munich 1860

Germany   
Joined: 04/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,062
Location: Neu-Ulm, Bavaria
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by antrains48
<br />Also I understand that 7244 is no longer being produced. Does someone have a ciruit diagram with the parts including the relay component part number or its Radio Shack or any manufacturer's item number. That will help. Thanks all.
Yes funny, as Lars has already pointed out, on www.maerklin.de you will find a green light for 7244, meaning available from factory.

Your dealer will not come around ordering them for you .... Simply insist and tell him you saw it as available on the net.

Many regards,

Hans
I like M-track and my things that run on it were built between 1959 and 1972.
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Offline antrains48  
#14 Posted : 15 September 2006 19:54:35(UTC)
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antrains48


Joined: 03/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 24
Location: , MD
Not interested in any disinformation. My dealer(s) were not ready to order nor had it in stock. One of them said that this is no longer available. So I bought a Viessmann instead. Noisy but it works.

I might split the 7244's that I have, now that I know how it can be done.

As I might need a few more, I was trying to find out how to assemble them from parts.

Regards.

antrains48
http://www.trainaidsa.com
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Offline intruder  
#15 Posted : 21 September 2006 01:20:52(UTC)
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intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
I have splitted the 7244 in two sections myself, installing 1N4148 diodes (see the above link "www.tripod...") on the two additional blue wires. It works perfect.

It is rather easy to make it yourself. One two-pole bi-stable relay, one dropping resistor on the yellow wire and the two diodes, installed on a small piece cut out of an experimental circuit board. Perfect and cheap. I use:

CP Claire LX2L000 relay
220 ohm 1/4 Watt dropping resistor
2x 1N4148 Diode
Board 20x30mm (can be made smaller)
The dropping resistor is not required if the relay is operated only by short pulses. The diodes are not really nessecary if you run on DC (e.g. from a K83 decoder), but I install them anyhow.

The relay is clearly marked with "+" and "-" for the two relay coils. I always concider the yellow wire as "+", the blue wires as "-", beware of the diode direction, the (normally) black ring on the diode (catode) pointing away from the relay coils.
The yellow wire can be connected to both the "+" terminals, eventually with the resistor between the yellow wire and the "+" terminals.

Best regards

P.S. revised Sept. 24 due to wrong resistor
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
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