Personally, I'd hold off buying an intellibox right now. With all the new stuff that's coming out (Marklin CS, Trix CS, ESU ECoS, Viessmann Commander), it's very likely Uhlenbrock will come with something new as well.

Me too,
I also have the Lissy with may Intellibox system, and it works great for me too. I really like the stuff.

I've made a translation of the Lissy manual at
http://home.swipnet.se/wes_familj/emj_d.htm

others are available there too, as the Switch Control manual.

I think that LocoNet, and Lissy, is the right way to go. It's true that we don't know what will happen with the systems, but if you take a LocoNet system you will be better off than taking a system that don't rely on a standardized system bus. There is one difference between Intellibox and the other systems: the Intellibox and it's functionality is available. OK, CS is available, but still not usable except for the very simplest tasks. And who knows about the future.

It takes some time to program the Lissy modules; perhaps you should look at the software LocoNet tool as well, and use a computer for that.

Another note: any week now Uhlenbrock release a new Lissy module, with some software modifications. I don't say that you should wait, just tell you. You can't upgrade the software in Lissy as easy as with the Intellibox, Daisy etc.

Regards,
Lars

Martin is right. With new items coming shortly I would wait. Cant see Uhlenbrock competing with ESU,s ECOS or the Central Station unless they bring out something new.
We have four or so members here who like the system but if you are a Marklin fan...and I hope you are...why not but a CS.

David

Absolutely right. IB is in my eyes the best system available,now and in the future.
Look closely at the fora and see what problems some people have with the CS,even the most easy things (for example changing a lok adress) seem to be very hard to understand. Compatibility seems not good and updates don't come.
I can't see what ecos would add to the digital world.
Motorola drivers haven't been spoilt with features in the past,so now it seems like MFX is IT!. Well,DCC standard is more advanced now and will be in the future.
Sorry to say this David.
Of course we will all stay friends,everybody may have his own opinion...

I bought a Marklin CS just to see what it was all about and I still (at least at this stage) prefer the Marklin 6021 style setup. I also have an Intellibox but never got around to using it yet (just some simple testing), I am still satisfied with my all Marklin setup and current software to operate the layout.

One thing I have grown use to with both Marklin Digital and the Intellibox is that the system is ready for manual use almost instantly after power is applied to the layout. Try doing that with the CS and also the network connection must be connected and your network powered on first before the network will activate on the Marklin CS (not a benefit now but will be when computer control is available, assuming that the ethernet connection is what will be used for computer control). If the network is not connected and powered on before the CS is powered on then the CS has to be restarted before the network will be available. This is due to the fact that in the Linux world the network is started via a script and will not reactivate until the script is run again or a specific command launched to bring up the network (usually at power up) resulting in longer delay before the system is ready for use when wanting to use computer control.

This is just a personal observation and not ment as a whos brand is better or the bashing of the brands.

Bottom line one should make use of a system that sparks your interest and meets your needs. All new decoders are backwards compatible to the older Motorola format (ones that support the Motorola protocol that is). I also noticed that if the MFX type decoders have the speed table set to linear then the performance seems to resemble the 6090x type decoders which is fine by me (still need more time to test other settings).

Maxi

Wow, this sounds familiar, haven't we done this about oh.. a billion times before?

Funniest thing though, how can something that's released and readily available be "vaporware"?

Not so over here. Several of the shops around here have plenty of Uhlenbrock stuff in stock. Oh, and for the half a dozen of us, count me in too. I think we are at least a full dozen

Guys:

I was thinking that it would be cool if Uhlenbrock would release a Loconet touch screen for the IB. Instead of coming out with a totally new central control, they could do a software update and provide some of the new features of the CS and Ecos on a 'plug in' device. That way we could enjoy some of the new features of the CS, but continue to use the IB, 6040's, 6036's, etc.

Any thoughts?

r/mark

Yes, you're right. I don't think Lars *meant* to say the whole CS was vaporware. I try to stay away from rumor about what is next. The fact remains that, from what is on the market right now, IB is a complete and functional system. CS is not. What will happen in the future? I don't know. What is the track record of the two companies? That is for the buyer to decide. (For the record, I do not own an IB or a CS. I use the 6021.)
Bruce

Yes,
sorry for the confusion. My thinking was faster than my writing.
I certainly refer to the lack of software and the 6021 adapter. Sometimes you also hear peoples phantasies about what is to come with this "new technology" (which isn't new in my eyes) but I agree that Märklin isn't to be blamed by that. The term "waporware" refers to the above.

My other critisism for for Märklin/systems is well known and can be read at other threads.

The good thing is that it appears to me that last years programme concentrates heavily on the things Märklin are good at, and not a penny on /systems. BTW, is the Piezo crane car out yet?

/Lars

I have played a bit with the CS at the local store, and I have to say, although there are some things I don't like about it, overall I like it more than the IB. I've played about an equal amount of time with both systems.

The problem with /systems I believe, is that Marklin and ESU are no longer working together, and things just take a lot more time for Marklin to do. They just don't have the experience making Digital equipment to do it in a short time (remember that the original Motorola was designed and built by Lenz.) On top of that, most CS features were promised during the Marklin-ESU cooperation, and I'm sure when they announced everything, they more or less believed the could deliver everything on time. With all that's happened with the ESU breakup and the new ownership etc, I'd expect delays.

Another thing, when the first version of the IB came out, it lacked a lot of promised features as well. It wasn't a complete system, it became one over time. IB updates haven't always been on time, and the latest update has been rumoured to be released "soon" for many months now. A software developer at Uhlenbrock has even claimed on a forum a while back that the version 2 software would "definately" be out in march. Uhlenbrock is at the moment very quiet about any IB upgrade related to mfx.

Of course, people might say they don't care about mfx and/or plug and play, but just because you don't care about it, doesn't mean others don't. Right now, of all the digital systems available, Marklin/Trix Systems is BY FAR the easiest to get into, and it is BY FAR the most interesting for kids who like trains but like computers a bit more. The CS is basically a small computer, and the touchscreen, even though it's low quality, will attract kids. Also, the MS has the form factor of a handheld console, something many kids are used to having in their hands. In all, that's a good thing for MRR in general, since if no kids get started in MRR, MRR will die out in a few generations.

Maybe the CS isn't the most complete digital system right now, but it's a great start for those new to it all. And in time I'm sure the updates will come, and with it computer control amongst other things. Last, if the CS is so bad, and the touchscreen unnecesary, ESU and Viessmann wouldn't have been so quick to announce their own versions. Remember that not everyone has (or wants) a computer to control their layout.

On a sidenote, I don't have either CS or IB, but used both. I do have an MS, which I think is brilliant, and hasn't given me any problems at all. Which digital system am I buying next? Most probably Lenz.

Now I'll shut up about this whole pointless, waste-of-time discussion ;)

Cos we (the other half a dozen ) use CUs ...

I was among the first who bought the cs and i am very satisfied.

People generally do not react good on progress.

LISSY is a hardware solution for automating your trains without a computer.
I use the IB-Switch for switching groups of track switches simultaneously (routes).
But you can automate without the IB-Switch if you want.
Except the shadow station the programmed actions I used are without the IB-Switch.
I use the IB-Switch for virtual adresses and to disable/enable the LISSY modules.

link (not translated yet)

Timaximus

viragoLDR it is not pointless. This thread is as usual quite informative.I picked up some good information from what you and everyone else had to say.SRB has it right.Pros and cons.I don't care who makes the system to drive the MFX Marklins via computer. . . .I just want a system!Heard that sigh all the way over here in the land of Oz , Lars

I use the IB-Switch for ... and to disable/enable the LISSY modules.

YES

Timaximus

Hello Eugbro,

Resumé and returning to your question:

[i]I’m about to buy an Uhlenbrock Intellibox and the Lissy digital sensor kit [answer: good choice].
1) I was wondering if anyone on this forum has used the Lissy system and the Intellibox? [answer: YES]
2) Is it worth getting it? [answer: YES]

Timaximus

What does Lissy do?

- It may identfiy a passing loco or car, and transmit info about adress, category, speed and direction to a computer or to a display unit.
- It may trigger speed changes or function changes of passing locos, either 'for all passing locos' or individually.
- It may trigger turnout and signal settings when trains are identified, either 'for all passing locos' or individually. Triggering is done either directly to the turnounts, via routes in the Intellibox, or by 'sensor events' to the IB-switch routes.
- Be programmed for 'automatic control' of things as trains going back and forth ('Pendelzug'), gently stop at red signals, short stops at stations, shadow station etc.

Lissy have to parts, a tiny IR transmitter under the locos/cars, and a IR receiver with it's sensors mounted at different places in track. The receiver is programmed by Intellibox/Twin Center, LocoNet tool, or IB-control. The programming is not very user friendly; I guess LocoNet tool will be a major leap forward in this respect. But the system is very scalable as you program each receiver to monitor events at a given place of your layout; like 'when a train reaches this point it should hold for 60s'. These actions are then performed by LocoNet commands to the CU, which means that the actions of the loco may be monitored at a LocoNet control, and overridden when apropriate. The train is stopped automaticly at the red signal, but you may pass it, or begin to backing, put on or off sound or whatever. It really makes it very fun to drive with this combination of manual and automatic control.

Thanks for your help all. I cant view the system as shops in melbourne, Australia wouldnt have an intellibox of even a lissy kit in store to look at. Unless im wrong? Is there anyone in melbourne with one???

The Uhlenbrock sounds pretty good.

Well,
normally you program a Lissy module with commands like "any loco reaching this point...", meaning that that the locos address is recognized, and stop commands are sent to this address. Light may be controlled in this way too, as the lights normally is mapped to 'function' /'f0'. But if you whish, you may program a module to issue F2 for adress 19 when this loco is recognized, if f2 is the command for the whistle for this particualar loco, but f3 for address 456 and so on.

The advantage in my eyes is the very modular thinking. Each Lissy takes care of the situation at a certain point, and doesn't have to know anything about the environment. The clue is the train recognition/identification, and this is what you have to pay for. Of course you could use a computer program together with the Lissy, and do the same tasks.

But a computer program togethere with s88's etc, must be set together as one unit; it must figure out the adress of a loco passing a s88 contact, that it should be the one that left another point some time ago. And this calculation will be heavily disturbed if you try to interact manually as you play.

IMHO, the thinking is easy when using Lissy, unless you want it to be complicated. What I meant with LocoNet tool, is that it makes it easier to set the correct values into Lissy, and readouts etc. Why should one want to make it complicated? Becuase you might want to implement automatic traffic, where train make different turnts, so that it looks complicated for the user. Easy tasks are things as
- Sound the whistle when approaching a level crossing
- Put on light in tunnels
- Slow down at stations
- Speed up in main line
- Let all electric locos turn left where the unelectrified line turns right
- Let all passanger cars hold for 2 minutes, but goods pass
- Let all trains entering the "Sackbahnhof", wait for some time, and then leave again in the opposite direction.

/Lars

P.S. I agree Lissy isn't very cheap. All I say is that Lissy is fun to play with.
L.W.

I am still not convinced,maybe I must contact Timaximus to give me a demonstration of the system. I am planning a new layout in the near future,but I am not sure of what to use for controlling it. Lissy could be an option,but in my opinion it still isn't flexible enough.
It depends on recognizing lokos that are fixed programmed,not on trains as I could do with a computer.
How can the system for example recognize a passenger train from a freight train,this must be the loko that is recognized. And here comes my main problem;I want to use my Br218 for all categories of trains.
As for the difference with S88 control ; S88 controls track sections, it should't be to hard for any computer to figure out in what section the train is. I would have to see Lissy in "real life" to see if it is useable for my layout and my needs.
Don't get me wrong,I don't think Lissy is not good,I just want to make sure it's what I am looking for.

Bart