And your point is? Do you really think that Märklin is doing that much better. It was announced yesterday that at a company meeting that Mother has sold Werk 3 on the Holzheimerstrasse. Also the museum, training areas, and warehouse will be moving to Werk 1 on the Stuttgarterstrasse by the end of September. A fairly significant contraction. Source was another forum with confirmation (but no details as I didn't want to pay) in the http://www.suedwest-aktiv.de/region/nwz/. Reality is the that market is shrinking due to high prices, lower paychecks, age, competition... It's going to hit all companies in some way. Those either need to adapt with more appropriate products/pricing/labor or die. Simple as that. Look at it this way. If the companies die, there won't be any new models and ours will increase in value.

p.

Me too

I don't see any of the products of the last decades really holding much of their value in the same sense as the early models, of which only a very small subset are truely collectors items. They've produced too much and much of the "serious collector" stuff is fantasy junk.

Let's face it, these are just plain toys. Expensive toys, but toys. I've had as many problems with Märklin as any other brand, which is to say, not much. Märklin uses plenty of plastic too. With proper handling things will last, and there's guarantee that parts will remain indefinitely. We'll just have to improvise.

p.

Its unfortunate for Roco. However, let's not lose sight of the fact that we like to play with trains and opur choice was Marklin not two rail products from other companies. We made the choice and we have a lot of fun with the stuff we buy and play with. I know many people buy for the collectable value. Its only got a cash value when you go to sell.So lets look at the positive side enjoy the hobby and have fun.
Its even fun beating up on every issue in the forum.
Stephen(USA)

The whole thing is sad frankly. Here is a company with a good bit of history, and a brand new facility inside its native country that just couldn't ride out this European recession. I feel for the employees of Roco. I bought one of their Br1116 models, and I must say, the Marklin felt a lot nices, but the Roco was more true to prototype. I wish maybe the two could merge philosophies and make a metal true to scale/prototoype model.

Quoted from: Salzburger Nachrichten (online edition)

Roco von Insolvenz bedroht / 13. Juli 2005

Modellspielwaren GmbH in Hallein in Turbulenzen. Deutscher Markt ist eingebrochen.

HALLEIN (SN). Die Roco Modellspielwaren GmbH mit Hauptsitz in Hallein-Rif steckt in der Krise. Löhne, Gehälter und Urlaubsgeld sind noch ausständig und eine mögliche Insolvenz ist nicht ausgeschlossen. Bei einer Betriebsversammlung wurden am Mittwoch die Beschäftigten vom Betriebsrat über die Lage informiert.

„Wir setzen uns für die Weiterführung des Betriebs und den Erhalt der Arbeitsplätze ein“, so Betriebsrats-Vorsitzender der Arbeiter Karl Schernthaner. Den Beschäftigten wird geraten, Ruhe zu bewahren und nicht aus der Firma vorzeitig auszutreten - sonst gingen Ansprüche wie Abfertigung verloren.

Einer der Hauptgründe für die Finanz-Probleme bei Roco: In den vergangenen Monaten ist der deutsche Markt eingebrochen, die Nachfrage im Nachbarland für die hochwertigen Produkte von Roco stark gesunken. Der Modellspielwarenhersteller ist aber in hohem Maße von Deutschland abhängig. 65 Prozent des Umsatzes von Roco werden am deutschen Markt erzielt. Auch die Übersiedlung von Salzburg nach Hallein hat in der Anfangsphase Probleme erzeugt.

Roco zählt in Österreich insgesamt rund 600 Mitarbeiter. In Salzburg-Hallein sind es 372 Mitarbeiter. „Wir setzen uns mit voller Kraft für den Weiterbestand der Firma und den Erhalt der Arbeitsplätze ein“, betont Schernthaner.

Schnelle aber schlampige Google Übersetzung:

HALLEIN (SN). The Roco model play goods GmbH with head office in Hallein Rif is in the crisis. Wages, salaries and holiday pay are still out constant and a possible insolvency are impossible. During a workshop meeting on Wednesday the persons employed were informed by the work council about the situation. "we sit down for the continuation of the enterprise and the receipt of the jobs", thus work council chairmen of the workers Karl Schernthaner. Will turn out for the person employed to retain peace and not withdraw from the company prematurely - otherwise requirements were lost such as dispatching. One of the principal reasons for the financial problems with Roco: In the past months the German market broke in, the demand in the neighboring country for the high-quality products of Roco strongly sank. The model play goods manufacturer depends however to a considerable degree on Germany. 65 per cent of the conversion of Roco at the German market are obtained. Also the removal from Salzburg to Hallein produced problems in the initial phase. Roco counts approximately 600 coworkers in Austria altogether. Into Salzburg-Hallein there is 372 coworkers. "we sit down with full strength for the continuance of the company and the receipt of the jobs", stress Schernthaner.

Thanks for your help for English,Munich1860.

I hope that too Guus!
I really do!

The problem which remains are those selling the product.So called dealers are in the main hopeless and have no business training in Sales,Finance and marketing etc.(I exclude those who are members of this forum who obviously know there stuff)
Marklin in the UK just does not sell mainly because nobody makes any effort and some do not even own shops and work from a home address and carry hardly any stock. Even M themselves are not making much of their Insider Club and do not make any effort to advertise or appoint dealers with shops in good areas where the product would sell.
I am sure M would do well in the USA if they apid more attention to what the customers there require and even take time to find out which DVD system is used.
If Roco fail then the fault lies with their management and maybe one less in the business will help the others and perhaps wake them up to the fact that action is required NOW if the industry is to continue.
David

Guus nailed it... A big part of this problem is the total lack of interest in model trains by today's Nintendo youth.. Model trains are not toys anymore, but for the most part are collectors models now.. we're the ones keeping this industry afloat. Maybe they need to return to their roots, and introduce low cost (and yes, low quality) versions of their stuff for the toy market while keeping their high quality, European made stuff available to their collectors.

In the late 80s and early 90s Marklin's goal was to make one less of each item than market actually demanded. That's when sales growth achieved its greatest height. Because of a perceived "shortage" many of us had a hunger for almost any new thing out there. Now, of course that's all gone. The end of an era.

Alberto: You know it and I know it - banks are known as cold blooded sharks, generally (sorry David, no pun intended - I guess Scottish banks are friendly, huh ? ). But at a certain point they get my deep understanding since they're responsible for our savings, too.

What I read in the papers is Roco's management made some really big mistakes - one of them is their poor dealing with real estates. In economically bad times most companies try to compensate in keeping such as tight as possible - or even sell some of their real estate they don't need. What M cleverly does.
What did Roco ??? Besides building a new factory in Slowakia (surely a good move , thus cutting down the company's overhead costs), in 2004 they bought a big and impressive building for their management & administration [xx(][xx(][xx(], just a few miles distant from the old one. Well, those € 24,000.000 are missed badly, now ...

John

Thanks John

That's for sure, unless their parents are subsidizing their hobby.

Last year I was spending 300 to 500 Euros/month while I was building. Right now, I am doing scenery (most of which is already bought) and making what I have run better. I have a major expansion planned in the next few months (about 1 meter by 2.5 meters) for a diesel/elok maintenance facility, a two track S-bahn station with associated schattenbahnhof below and two parking tracks, and an industrial area. Now that my son has moved out and has his own place, I have the room. Probably will start it in the fall. Then my expenditures will increase again.

Discussions in all the German language chat rooms are interesting. Too many products, too many of them ltd editions, products that no one wants but significant gaps in product lines. Alternatives suggested included lower cost, simpler "modular" models where the base model might be analog, but with a socket for the decoder of your choice, no sound but room for the decoder of your choice, less variants but more room for making your own. The US modelling community is presented as an example. The smaller manufacturers with very narrowly focused product lines also seem to be doing better. Fleischmann, Gützold, KMB, ...

It'll be interesting to see how this all plays out. Right now the banks are taking control with Maegdefrau likely losing his job. What happens then is up for grabs. The company manages to reorganize and pull itself out of the hole by making hard decisions (pricing, product line), a foreign company buys it, or it closes. It was also speculated that they might drop AC models as part of any reorganization. Interesting as Liliput is beginning to offer AC models again.

p.

Just when Roco started making models that I want, *boom*. I have their BR120(?) Tagia Drum with great sound. The two BR232 I have are the best pullers (Except for my E94's).
And, now, just when they have a new BR1020, the bottom drops out.[:(]

IMHO, this is the canary falling over off the catenary. The economy of DE must be on the edge. I saw 30% out of work mentioned.

When you outsource everything, there is no one left to buy anything.[B)] The USA will surly follow, unless the EU and US both slap import duties on goods from China and India.

Enough gloom, I am going to play trains now.....

Don't worry. All isn't that bad ... Current unemployment is around 11 %, nothing to be proud of, but nowhere near 30 %. I don't really feel bad about how things are going here, it is just that everybody is really careful and watching their money. Still all the motorways are jammed with holiday makers, as are all airports at the moment.

And your solution, going to play with trains right now, is never a wrong one !! Enjoy it !!

Johann

FROM Model Railroader Magazine...

---

Roco, a large Austrian model railroad-manufacturing firm with products in HO and N scales, has declared bankruptcy. For many years Roco’s main operations were in Salzburg, Austria, but it recently moved its operations to a new factory in Hallein (in the Salzburg area, 370 employees). Roco also has facilities in Gloggnitz, Austria (200 employees), and in the Czech Republic (230 employees).

The European train market has been in a slump since the German economy weakened, and several of Roco’s competitors are now offering lower-cost items made in China. The German train market has declined from sales of 204 million Euros in 2002 to 181 million in 2004. Germany is Roco’s largest market (approximately 65 percent of Roco’s sales are in Germany). The firm, which according to Austrian sources has debts of approximately 24 million Euros and losses of approximately 5 million Euros per year, will remain in operation under receivership. Leopold Heher will serve as receiver. Employees have not been paid their wages for June or their vacation pay as of today, July 15. Substantial layoffs are expected as the firm reorganizes.

---

this is sad news...

but, I wonder how much was due to Roco management's bad decisions. For example their decision to invest in new and expensive facilities (did their customers really need this?) and their failed foray into North America - they signed up distributors charged high prices and left their partners dangling. I wonder if Roco had been better at taking advantage of the global market opportunity and the global supply chain how many good paying jobs they could have saved or maybe even created in Europe? Instead, they focused inward, rather than giving the market what it wants.

You do not need to be perfect, but when you make enough mistakes the market is unforgiving. This is what capitalism is about.

I hope that Märklin is better about creating demand around the world (especially with the next generation) and taking advantage of the global supply chain to become more competitive. I think the model railroad market does not have to be reduced to just collectors.

I have seen kids get really turned on by model trains. But the industry in general needs to become more competitive with video games (ie. digital and sounds are a must now for kids) and it needs to be more accessible (thousands of dollars cost is not accessible for children - nor their parents. not when they have other options).

My concern now is that Märklin may become more complacent. They may experience less competition temporarily, but the real competition are the other options that parents and their kids have for entertainment/hobbies....

There are great opportunities and challenges. My best hopes remain with Märklin.

See this video from Austrian Television, sorry it's in German:

http://salzburg-heute.sb...lity=256000&id=10936

Regards,

Johann

Absolutely correct, Peter, if I may say so !! Well observed and well written !!!!

Johann

Johann..I read it and appreciate it. I am using the German text to practice my rusty German language skills, but I miss the real import of the messages. Your translations are very clarifying. Thanks.

[Well that image disappeared, sorry]
(Kon-)Kurswagen nach Hallein . . . [Konkurs=insolvency/bankruptcy]

From Salzburg im Internet, <http://www.salzburg.com/sn/cartoon/>

Roco will make a new start. I think so. But if a Roco loc will be made in Europa. I would not know the answer. If the Roco loc is then made in China. I will not buy it.