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Offline Sam  
#1 Posted : 06 February 2005 17:48:42(UTC)
Sam


Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
I am FINALLY making the leap over to a digital layout. (Got the Fire Brigade digital starter set). I have gotten my second wind for train models, and I'm ready to try my hand at building a larger layout. I have converted my Delta 3 pole locs to 5 pole digital, and got a hold of a new 39340 with the movable pantographs.. so I am ready to tackle this.. I have just a couple of question for starters..

What should I do with the settings on the loc it's self where you can dial in (with a small screw driver) the acceleration delay and top speed? Or is that only meant to be used when they are run on analog track?

Oh, and while I have you're guys attention ;-), If I run about 80-100' of track and 4-5 locs.. with no additional bells and whistles (yet), will a 42VA transformer do? Shall I expect to add another feeder track?

If not, is there a way to use a second transformer as a booster, or do I have to invest in an actual booster?

Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station.
Offline Sander van Wijk  
#2 Posted : 06 February 2005 18:19:19(UTC)
Sander van Wijk

Netherlands   
Joined: 20/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,248
Location: Amsterdam, Netherlands; Göteborg, Sverige,
Sounds like you're working seriously on it!

The acceleration delay and top speed are settings ment for usage on a digital track. It's like the CV settings in the Fire loco. There's one difference: with these decoders it's hardware and not software... The "right" settings depend on the models you've converted.

About the transformer, I think 42VA is a little "on the edge", but you could try it. There's another problem anyway, your Mobile Station is a 1.2 A version. Wich means: 1.2 * 18 = 21,6 VA, whatever you do, you won't be able to utilize your transformer to the full. The 1.2 A mentioned above is usually just enough to have 3 locos running at the same time.

The only option know yet to boost the power on the track is with the special booster (not available yet)...


Sander
---
Era I(b): K.Bay.Sts.B. and K.W.St.E.
Offline rschaffr  
#3 Posted : 06 February 2005 18:21:31(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Sam:
1)The speed and acceleration settings are for digital, and you adjust them to get prototypical performance. Basically, unless you are a real diehard prototyper, if it looks good to you, go with it.
2) 4-5 loks without any carriage lights or turnouts MAY work on one transformer/controller, but they may not. Depends on the lok and the amount of current it draws. If you are operating turnouts digitally with that many loks running, they may not work reliably. Try it and see. You should feed your track (particularly C or M track) about every 1 - 2 meters, even if you are using one transformer.
3) No, you will need a booster of some sort. Remember each segment fed by a booster has to have the center rail or catenry isolated from the other segment(s). If you are using the "Old New" Motorola protocol (not the new mfx) you have a number of booster options. You can find a 6017 on the used market (they are no longer available from Marklin) or use the Littfinski unit (LDT: http://www.ldt-infocenter.com/). I have had good luck using old 6604's (delta controllers) as boosters but that is not recommended for driving loks due to timing problems and lower current output. I am in the process of replacing my 6604's with LDT's boosters.

Hope this helps you. It is really not as confusing as it sounds. Welcome to the world of digital!

BTW: I can help you set up a 6604 as a booster if you decide to go that way. It is not difficult. Many use them for powering their turnouts, not for driving loks.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Sam  
#4 Posted : 06 February 2005 23:35:41(UTC)
Sam


Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
WOW! It does sound confusing! But I'm sure I can get it eventually... I am a bit concerened though about this Mobil Station being a 21.6VA?? What is that all about? Reminds me of the crop factor on my Digital SLR Camera...

I bought the digital starter set WITH an additional 6002 digital transformer so that I can get more power, the salesman told me that the transformer that came with the digital set would run two to three trains, so we opted to add the 6002... Now I'm confused because if I don't get the additional benefit of that 42VA, why did I get the additional transformer?? HELP!

Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station.
Offline rschaffr  
#5 Posted : 06 February 2005 23:41:10(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
The amount of power delivered to the track is limited by the output of your control unit. It doesn't matter how big the transformer is. If you want to use a second transformer, you need a booster. Since it appears that you have bought the new mfx system, I don't have any experience with it, but I don't beleive the boosters are available yet.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Sam  
#6 Posted : 07 February 2005 00:14:49(UTC)
Sam


Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Well this is good to know, thanks a lot!
Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station.
Offline Webmaster  
#7 Posted : 07 February 2005 01:14:19(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,165
It is one thing how many loks you plan to have on the layout, but the important thing is how many loks you will have running on the track simultaneously... 5 loks, and only 2-3 in motion at the same time and no fancy coach lighting will keep it within the basic power requirements of the 42VA transformer... Still you'll have optimize power feed to the tracks so you get an even distribution of power to all parts of the layout, ie several connection points along the track.
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline Sam  
#8 Posted : 07 February 2005 05:10:52(UTC)
Sam


Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Webmaster
<br />It is one thing how many loks you plan to have on the layout, but the important thing is how many loks you will have running on the track simultaneously... 5 loks, and only 2-3 in motion at the same time and no fancy coach lighting will keep it within the basic power requirements of the 42VA transformer... Still you'll have optimize power feed to the tracks so you get an even distribution of power to all parts of the layout, ie several connection points along the track.


And this is my dilemma as I am going to be running a "temporary" track since I don't have a permanent place to put it, so to run wires every 2 meters is going to make a real electrical mess! I wish I could go back to my old layout and the simple analog transformer with one train at a time! ;-)

Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station.
Offline David Dewar  
#9 Posted : 07 February 2005 12:52:23(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,384
Location: Scotland
Sam Do not be put off by digital. A small or medium layout does not require lots of feeder tracks and very little if any wiring will be required.
Try with your new start set and see how things go you will be surprised how easy it is. Beware though as you will find that you will want to expand and buy lots more M goodies.
David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline rschaffr  
#10 Posted : 07 February 2005 17:33:54(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Sam: Actually the recommendation for feeder power every 1-2 m applies to analog too. It is a function of loss of power due to resistance at the track joiners. It is not unique to digital. C-track seems to have better contacts so you can get away with fewer feeds.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Sam  
#11 Posted : 07 February 2005 18:42:16(UTC)
Sam


Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Thanks all, I just wish I had a place to permanently set up my track.. The problem is that I would use my garage, but here in Phoenix, AZ the garage can hit 120 degrees F, or 60+C in summer for long periods (yes it's dry heat!), and that CAN'T be good for my track.. even if I put the locs away every day inside!

Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station.
Offline Guus  
#12 Posted : 07 February 2005 23:43:26(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Hi Sam,

First of all welcome to the forum.
It is encouraging to read you're also thinking of your garage as a permanent place to build your layout.I've about the same temperature problem here in Holland,that is that it will hit 10°F during winter and besides that it is a place where all the stuff my children need is stored [:(].
It it still a feasable option if you ask me,you only need an extra airco unit and I an extra radiator wink.Maybe a layout in the garage which you can lift or lower with a hoisting device would be an idea.

Best Regards
Guus

post scriptum:

I saw your profile:There ia another "hobby" we share professionally wink
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline Sam  
#13 Posted : 08 February 2005 00:02:55(UTC)
Sam


Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Guus
<br />Hi Sam,

First of all welcome to the forum.
It is encouraging to read you're also thinking of your garage as a permanent place to build your layout.I've about the same temperature problem here in Holland,that is that it will hit 10°F during winter and besides that it is a place where all the stuff my children need is stored [:(].
It it still a feasable option if you ask me,you only need an extra airco unit and I an extra radiator wink.Maybe a layout in the garage which you can lift or lower with a hoisting device would be an idea.

Best Regards
Guus

post scriptum:

I saw your profile:There ia another "hobby" we share professionally wink




Guus, thanks a lot for the words of encouragement... I have just one problem with the A/C unit in the garage.. I live in a HOA (Home Owners Association) type neighborhood and you can't simply stick an A/C into the wall. Even though my house is fully detached, it must meet certain appearance standards (Which are very high). I am basically stuck with either the VERY expensive option of piping A/C into my garage, or dealing with the heat, which for me is ok, but I worry for the layout..

I have another option, and that's the kids play room (one of our spare bedrooms), which my wife is fighting me on tooth and nail! ;-)

BTW... what other hobbie is that?

Regards

Sam
Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station.
Offline David Dewar  
#14 Posted : 08 February 2005 00:30:57(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,384
Location: Scotland
Go for the spare bedroom. Promise your wife anything but remember to keep your word.
David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline Guus  
#15 Posted : 08 February 2005 11:04:49(UTC)
Guus

Netherlands   
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,616
Hi Sam,hi all,

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:originally posted by Sam:
I have another option, and that's the kids play room (one of our spare bedrooms), which my wife is fighting me on tooth and nail! ;-)

BTW... what other hobbie is that?


It's the same here with the spareroom situation.Both my wife and I share it and there simply is no space left for a proper layout [xx(][xx(].

With the hobbie I meant flying aeroplanes.

Best Regards
Guus
Kind regards,
Guus
Offline Sam  
#16 Posted : 08 February 2005 17:20:57(UTC)
Sam


Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Guus
<br />Hi Sam,hi all,

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:originally posted by Sam:
I have another option, and that's the kids play room (one of our spare bedrooms), which my wife is fighting me on tooth and nail! ;-)

BTW... what other hobbie is that?


It's the same here with the spareroom situation.Both my wife and I share it and there simply is no space left for a proper layout [xx(][xx(].

With the hobbie I meant flying aeroplanes.

Best Regards
Guus


You are in the same boat as me Guus, I share my layout area with my wifes scrapbooking area in the spare room...

Great to see a fellow aviator!



Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station.
Offline robertrt  
#17 Posted : 09 October 2005 02:58:53(UTC)
robertrt


Joined: 04/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 120
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Sam

I was able to air condition my garage here in sunny Florida by having my A/C installer place a vent on the air handler. Where is your air handler? If it is in the garage, as mine is, it is a very simple and inexpensive way to air condition the garage when needed. When I close the vent at the end of my stay in the layout room (garage) , through some seepage, the garage stays relatively cool( with a lot less humidity as well). A small floor fan also helps to circulate the air. Hope this helps.wink
Robert J P
Offline Maxi  
#18 Posted : 09 October 2005 04:33:36(UTC)
Maxi


Joined: 28/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 757
Location: Wawa, Ontario
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by robertrt
<br />Sam

A small floor fan also helps to circulate the air. Hope this helps.wink


Totally agree, I have a dehumidifire in my room and have sealed the room off from the rest of the house in order to control the moisture. Moisture is the worst thing for a layout.
Offline Sam  
#19 Posted : 09 October 2005 05:50:06(UTC)
Sam


Joined: 04/02/2002(UTC)
Posts: 799
Location: Phoenix, AZ
Thanks for the tip guys, I've since commandeered the kids play room for my layout, indoor and a/c equipped! :)
Era I-V / HO & 1 Gauge / C-Track & Mobil Station, with Central Station.
Offline McLae  
#20 Posted : 09 October 2005 19:55:04(UTC)
McLae


Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX
Encourage your Kids to play trains with you! Double the fun!biggrinbiggrin
The McLae
IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V
Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
Offline kgsjoqvist  
#21 Posted : 10 October 2005 13:11:08(UTC)
kgsjoqvist

Sweden   
Joined: 04/06/2002(UTC)
Posts: 754
Location: Täby
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Sam
<br />Thanks for the tip guys, I've since commandeered the kids play room for my layout, indoor and a/c equipped! :)



I use a small part of a spare bedroom for a very small shelf layout *(which is not even finished yet). My 3-year old daughter uses the space underneath the shelf as a play room. The computer corner is in the other end of the room, and I plan to extend the shelves to use the space above the desk as well. Unfortunately this solution means puts the layout very high, to keep it out of reach for "the short one".

As for the power requirements when using a Mobile Station, you will need a second trafo as well as a booster (or a Delta Contro). One trafo is useed to power the Mobile Station. The other one powers the booster, which feeds the track. The input signal from the booster is taken from the "connection track piece". It is recommended to use only booster power on the track (do not drive on the connection track piece - or replace it with a connection box for K-track). In that case you can use the Delta solution and have about 32 VA available. With a LDT booster you get 45 VA, about the full power of your 42 VA trafo. The Mobile Staion needs only a small trafo, AC or DC of any kind that fits the connector and gives about 16 Volts.
K-G / H0 and Z model train user
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