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Offline PierreGILLARD  
#1 Posted : 10 November 2004 03:37:13(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Hello,
For those who are interested in KADEE couplers for their Märklin American locomotives and cars, I have prepared a PDF document about the required references. You will find it on my website at the next address :

Bonjour,
Pour ceux qui sont intéressés d'adapter des attelages KADEE sur leur matériel américain Märklin, j'ai préparé un petit document en PDF à ce sujet. Vous pourrez le trouver sur mon site à l'adresse suivante :

www.geocities.com/trains...klin/technique/kadee.pdf

Pierre.
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#2 Posted : 12 November 2004 20:55:31(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
It would be nice to see Märklin proposing the Trix 20 American Car assortment # 24902 with AC NEM wheels as well as the Tuscan Red UP Caboose # 24901 !
Pierre.
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#3 Posted : 12 November 2004 20:59:56(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Hello,
I have tested American cars from other makes on Märklin C-tracks. Definitively cars fitted with RP-25 wheels derail very often in turnouts. Does anyone came to the same conclusion on K-tracks ?
Pierre.
Offline GDamen  
#4 Posted : 12 November 2004 22:14:01(UTC)
GDamen


Joined: 28/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 48
Location: Siegerswoude, Friesland
Pierre,

Have a look at the following two NEM norms 310 and 340. (www.morop.org) When you compare the B-distances (distance between the backs of both wheels) than you wil find that on DC (as is RP25) the distance is 14,3 and on Marklin this distance is 14,0.

This minor difference is enough to make your cars derail on the frogs of turnouts. There are two solutions.

1) decrease the distance through shifting the wheels on their axels
2) Add some body to the guardrails in the turnouts. This to prevent the wheels to get cought on the frog by forcing them away. Beaware that other (older) equipment could give problems when using this methode

Gino
Märklin DB - DC USA UP/BN - IB Digital
Offline Charlie  
#5 Posted : 13 November 2004 04:25:53(UTC)
Charlie


Joined: 15/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 707
Location: Texas, USA
Pierre,

I believe at least some US Marklin dealers will exchange the NEM DC wheelsets on those Trix cars for free if you buy the cars from them. wink

Because of the shallow flanges the RP 25's will derail easier than Marklin wheels.

Charlie
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#6 Posted : 13 November 2004 16:23:55(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Charlie
<br />Pierre,

I believe at least some US Marklin dealers will exchange the NEM DC wheelsets on those Trix cars for free if you buy the cars from them. wink

Because of the shallow flanges the RP 25's will derail easier than Marklin wheels.

Charlie

Hello Charlie,
Thanks for answer. Unfortunately I have found no dealer neither in Europe nor in Canada who would like to exchange the RP25 wheels for AC wheels # 320551. So, that means an extra cost of about 160.00 Euros to buy wheels for 20 cars ! It would be so simple to have this assortment also sold by Märklin.
I also have found dealers telling me that RP25 wheels "will work" on Märklin rails without problems ... which is absolutely false !
Pierre.
Offline Charlie  
#7 Posted : 13 November 2004 17:23:26(UTC)
Charlie


Joined: 15/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 707
Location: Texas, USA
Did you buy the set already? If not, you can contact me of forum, and I'll may be able to help you.

Charlie
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#8 Posted : 20 November 2004 02:22:41(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Hello !
Does anyone get experience with ROCO wheels # 40195 installed on American Cars and rolling on Märklin tracks ?
Pierre.
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#9 Posted : 07 December 2004 03:27:59(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Hello !
Here are some pictures of American cars that I have converted to the Märklin AC 3 rail system :
ATHEARN : converted with Märklin trucks # 325700 these cars are cheap and so robust that they can merit the "Child Proof" label !
UserPostedImage
INTERMOUNTAIN RAILWAY Co. : one of our favorite American model car manufacturers. In this case trucks have been adapted to accomodate Märklin wheels # 320551. They also have Kadee couplers.
UserPostedImage
WALTHERS : if you are looking for Container Well Cars these probably are the best available today due to their die-cast body. We have fitted DC wheels # 320557 but we are waiting for some sets of their AC equivalents.
UserPostedImage
Note that all those cars are running without any problem on C-tracks.
Other pictures on www.geocities.com/trainsmarklin
Pierre.
Offline john black  
#10 Posted : 07 December 2004 18:22:24(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Great pictures - many thanks, Pierre Smile

John

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline jeehring  
#11 Posted : 07 December 2004 19:04:29(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
I recommend you the last model of caboose , from Marklin . It is a model of a wooden made caboose série 19000 with bogies " Diamond " from NYC.....it's a marvel of delicacy ! Look at the bogies and suspension springs ( better than on the former UP yellow caboose)ref number is 45703 .

Concerning Marklin items , Morop database cannot be cited as prime example ( in my opinion ). They just try to follow what Marklin is doing , it is not always kept up to date....

bye bye

PS on my C-track testing-layout , Trix boxcars with RP 25 wheels are running without any problem ( the reason I have to change them , is mainly a question of electronics )
Offline john black  
#12 Posted : 07 December 2004 19:13:07(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring
<br />I recommend you the last model of caboose , from Marklin . It is a model of a wooden made caboose série 19000 with bogies " Diamond " from NYC.....it's a marvel of delicacy !


Fair right, Roland, one real beauty - received mine last week. Now it runs behind my 2-8-2 powered NYC Coal Train [:p][:p][:p]

Best Regards
John

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline jeehring  
#13 Posted : 07 December 2004 19:14:22(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
To Pierre Gillard ,
merci de votre attention ! Effectivement , monter un jour des attelages Kadee sur le materiel US Marklin est une idée qui me tente depuis longtemps .Je ne manquerai pas de faire un tour à l'adresse indiquée !
bye bye
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#14 Posted : 07 December 2004 21:07:23(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by jeehring
<br />To Pierre Gillard ,
merci de votre attention ! Effectivement , monter un jour des attelages Kadee sur le materiel US Marklin est une idée qui me tente depuis longtemps .Je ne manquerai pas de faire un tour à l'adresse indiquée !
bye bye

Bonjour Roland,
Le caboose NYC est effectivement sur ma liste ... avec tant d'autres choses !
Merci pour vos messages et informations.
Atlas is currently producing nice cabooses too but I have not bought one to date to convert to Märklin ( I now would like to give more priority to acquire Märklin and Trix cars ).
I have converted three Athearn cabooses but Märklin caboose trucks with couplers are really expensive. A complete modified caboose costs about EUR/US$ 45.00 ! ... will not continue that way for sure !
Amitiés,
Pierre.
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#15 Posted : 20 December 2004 02:05:56(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Hello !
I just have received my # 40195/85603 Roco wheels and tested them on some American cars ( not Marklin, of course ! ) ... getting interesting success on some and disappointment on others.
The best results I have got to date with these Roco wheels are with 50' Newsprint boxcars made by Proto 1000. I just had to fine the bottom of truck sideframes of about 0.5 mm in order to avoid center stud related problems in some turnouts ( C-Track ). So this is a not so expensive way to have good looking 50 ft boxcars.
On the other hand, my Proto 2000 gondolas and boxcars are definitively running better on Marklin # 320551 wheels. I really like the Proto 2000 kits as they probably are the cheapest solution to have highly detailled American cars.
I still have to find an "easy" solution for conversions of Intermountain cars.
You can get more information about Proto 1000 and Proto 2000 cars on www.lifelikeproducts.com .
As soon as I have definitively fixed all problems, I will produce a complete document about American cars conversions to Marklin.
Pierre.
Offline Santi  
#16 Posted : 24 December 2004 16:35:22(UTC)
Santi


Joined: 09/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: Spain
Hi Pierre!

I'm also interested in having more American cars by converting some from other brands in order to run correctly on my layout.(I like AT&SF and UP and I look for the way of having more cars running)

My first problem is my track: M. The turnouts are a nightmare for this. I must try in a new oval I've bought of C track (NYC starting set), but I try to succeed on my M tracks.

The RP25 for me is just impossible, since they tend to derail, as you know.

I've replaced some trucks with M and Roco wheels (sorry, I don't know the refs.) and they run quite well. But what have you done in order to accomodate? Because all the wheels I've tried have a narrower 'axle': the width between the outer extremes are slightly bigger in the DC (Athearn, Proto, Walthers and InterMountain). Then the AC are a little loose inside the trucks.

Another problem I find is the couplers: I like the Kadee type, but sometimes they stop on some parts because of the third rail and in turnouts, of course! I've put some thin washers in order to raise the cars, but then they tend to balance more. How have you managed?

To be continued,
Thanks,

Santi
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#17 Posted : 24 December 2004 17:13:56(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Santi
<br />Hi Pierre!

I'm also interested in having more American cars by converting some from other brands in order to run correctly on my layout.(I like AT&SF and UP and I look for the way of having more cars running)

My first problem is my track: M. The turnouts are a nightmare for this. I must try in a new oval I've bought of C track (NYC starting set), but I try to succeed on my M tracks.

The RP25 for me is just impossible, since they tend to derail, as you know.

I've replaced some trucks with M and Roco wheels (sorry, I don't know the refs.) and they run quite well. But what have you done in order to accomodate? Because all the wheels I've tried have a narrower 'axle': the width between the outer extremes are slightly bigger in the DC (Athearn, Proto, Walthers and InterMountain). Then the AC are a little loose inside the trucks.

Another problem I find is the couplers: I like the Kadee type, but sometimes they stop on some parts because of the third rail and in turnouts, of course! I've put some thin washers in order to raise the cars, but then they tend to balance more. How have you managed?

To be continued,
Thanks,

Santi

Hello Santi,
Thanks for all your questions. If you are not in a hurry, it is my intention to publish some articles about American Cars conversions on Marklin-users.net next year due to the number of similar questions. Note that for the moment I have not solved all problems and I still need to make tests on K-Tracks.
Anyway, I can tell you that it is almost impossible to run Kadee fitted cars on M-Tracks due to center stud related problems as you have mentioned. The only cars that runs on M-Track are of course all NEM coupler fitted Marklin cars and Athearn modified cars with Marklin # 35700 trucks. One of my future articles will tell how to convert these cars because Marklin trucks are much larger than the original Athearn's.
My American cars with Kadee couplers are running very well on C-Tracks. As you have mentioned, the main concern is still about compatible wheels.
The most troubleless American cars that I have found to date are PROTO 2000 gondolas and boxcars ( I still have to buy and test hoppers, flat cars, etc ). They runs absolutely perfectly with Marklin # 320551 wheels. You just have to add some washers on the truck axles ( to adjust height with Kadee coupler fitted Marklin cars ) and Kadee # 5 couplers and that's all. Very easy, nice looking cars, ... and not expensive ( about EUR 20.00 per car ! ). Another easy option is the PROTO 1000 Newsprint cars. You just have to replace the original wheels by ROCO # 40195 and fine the bottom of the Barber S-2 trucks of about 0,5 mm ( ... always to avoid center stud related problems ... ). The price of such a modified car should be around EUR 25.00.
But note that once again all this is true only for C-Tracks.
I hope this will help you for the moment.
Felices Navidades !
Pierre.
Offline Santi  
#18 Posted : 24 December 2004 17:33:48(UTC)
Santi


Joined: 09/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 45
Location: Spain
Hi Pierre!

Thank you for all your answers. I'll do in the way you explain. And I look forward your future contributions!

Joeux Noel!

Santi
Offline McLae  
#19 Posted : 24 December 2004 22:53:49(UTC)
McLae


Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX
Merry Xmas guys!

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Does anyone get experience with ROCO wheels # 40195 installed on American Cars and rolling on Märklin tracks


In the Roco catalog (2001/02), there are several types of wheels offered. 4 types of AC wheels, 4 types of RP25 wheels (Yuck!), and 12 types of NEM DC wheels.
In my experience with C and M track, the Roco NEM DC wheels work just fine. No contact track current detection, but no derailments. I swap AC and DC wheels with no visible difference.

From my experimentation, the flange depth is more of a problem than the wheel spacing. RP have shallow flanges, and these ignore the guard rail of the switch, allowing derailments. NEM and AC wheels have deeper flanges, which work on Marklin track.

If the Roco wheels fit, you will get good results.Smile
The McLae
IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V
Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
Offline PierreGILLARD  
#20 Posted : 28 December 2004 01:50:36(UTC)
PierreGILLARD


Joined: 09/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 2,346
Location: Longueuil, Quebec
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by McLae
<br />Merry Xmas guys!

In the Roco catalog (2001/02), there are several types of wheels offered. 4 types of AC wheels, 4 types of RP25 wheels (Yuck!), and 12 types of NEM DC wheels (...).

Hello Thomas !
Thanks for the information. I know ROCO AC wheels part numbers 40195 and 40196.
What are the two other-ones ?
Pierre.
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