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Offline otidblom  
#1 Posted : 17 August 2004 13:32:26(UTC)
otidblom


Joined: 17/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: ,
Hello all!

I am new to this forum but have had my märklin layout for nearly eight years. Just about 3 years ago I started to make my layout permanent since my new room ha more space. But I have some problems:
*I don't have much money to spend on märklin
*I love my märklin
*I dont work (I am 14 years old) for my money.
I still want to make my layout nicer. I cant supply you with pictures of the layout right now. There is just one layer. Today or tomorrow I am going to buy some scenery stuff but I need some help. How can I make my layout more realistic. I have looked on pictures and so on but i have no clue on how to do it like the layouts in magazines. I thought that if I tell you which train I had it might be easier to help? The loc is a 3000. Then there is are some freight waggons and a waggon that carries people. Please help.


How do I insert pictures in the post. crtl+v doesnt work.
Offline McLae  
#2 Posted : 17 August 2004 16:21:53(UTC)
McLae


Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX
Welcome Oliver!

You are not alone. Even us old-timers (I missed my birthday Lok last year[:(]) are 'scenery impared'.[:p]

I have about 6 books on how to do scenery. Still no clue![xx(][:p]

You might find a local friend or RR club and trade help on each other's layouts. Also, start small. (no tunnels with catenary first try[:p])

For pictures, there is a thread under the NMR section. You have to upload the picture onto a web server, then put the link in your text.

Enjoy!
The McLae
IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V
Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
Offline rschaffr  
#3 Posted : 17 August 2004 16:55:07(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,181
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Oliver:

Welcome. I have found that the best way to start with the scenery is to start. My current layout is the first time I have tried to do extensive scenery development and I think it is coming out fairly well. If you are on a tight budget, there are many things around the house you can use. I have been pounding some of my wife's potting stones to gravel because I liked the rough consistency. As to commercial products, I don't know what is locally available at a reasonable cost in Sweden, but I have found that the Woodlands Scenics materials are relatively inexpensive and give a good effect. If you are interested in my efforts (remember this is my first attempt and I am NOT artistically inclined!) go to my page by clicking on the home symbol above, or paste this URL in your browser:
http://www.sem-co.com/~r...rains/era_iv/era_iv.html
Also look at the layout pictures topic on this site. Some of the other members have posted their efforts there and are quite impressive.
Buildings and people can get expensive but if you are patient and budget your time and money, you can succeed.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline rschaffr  
#4 Posted : 17 August 2004 17:06:51(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,181
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Oliver:
One additional thought. Don't try to do everyting at once. Pick a small section of your layout and develop it. Leave the rest just track. When you are satisfied with that section, move on to another. This will do several things. It will help limit your expenditures, and will give you confidence and experience to do the next section. I started with the section I called "The Valley". I feel it is acceptable, but I am not really satisfied with it. I may tear it out at some time in the future and redo it.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline rugauger  
#5 Posted : 17 August 2004 18:07:54(UTC)
rugauger

United Kingdom   
Joined: 19/12/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,205
Location: Swindon, Wiltshire
Hi Oliver,
Just to add to some of the points already made: get your hands on anything that may be of use, even if it seems absurd. Polystyrene (styrofoam) from appliances packaging, cardboard pieces, even newspapers. Also, nothing beats the "real thing", so have a look out for small sticks or branches from trees, pieces of gravel/rock. Some people even use real soil and sand (sieved and cleaned) on their layouts. Maybe a friendly timber merchant will give you some offcuts if you ask nicely...

And I'm with Ron - keep it small to start with. Pick a small area of your layout and experiment with your materials. Nothing beats the experience that you gain from just trying things out. Perhaps you can start with a small hill, polystyrene covered with plaster, then painted and covered with scenic materials...

In terms of M* stuff, try and find some used items (maybe on eBay, maybe locally, depending on where you are).

Good luck, have fun, and welcome to the forum!
Richard
Offline franciscohg  
#6 Posted : 17 August 2004 20:21:55(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,298
Location: Patagonia
Hi Oliver welcome to the forum.
It is a hard think, scenery. Just agreed with previous posts, and it is essential to make your own experience triing differents materials and techniques, but above all HAVE FUN!!!!!!!!!!
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
Offline kimmo  
#7 Posted : 17 August 2004 20:25:12(UTC)
kimmo


Joined: 11/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 397
Location: ,
Hello Oliver,

Welcome to the Forum.

There is very little to add what Ron, Richard and Thomas have said. I was a first-timer also, when I started with my layout one year ago. I found it very helpful to look at pictures of the work others had done. Many of us have documented their work in there own web-sites. My efforts, with some step-by-step pictures included, you can find from here:

http://personal.inet.fi/private/kimmo.makinen/

Start with a small section, and try things out. It is not that hard, after all.
Kimmo
Offline otidblom  
#8 Posted : 17 August 2004 21:01:06(UTC)
otidblom


Joined: 17/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: ,
Thank you for all your responses! Thank you for the pictures rschaffr
and kimmo! Just one more question.
*What are the roads called?


Offline kimmo  
#9 Posted : 17 August 2004 21:15:05(UTC)
kimmo


Joined: 11/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 397
Location: ,
I am not sure if I understand what you mean by your question, Oliver. Maybe you can explain it with a few more words.
Kimmo
Offline perz  
#10 Posted : 18 August 2004 00:50:18(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Hello Oliver,

For terrain structures (hills, mountains etc.), styrofoam is a good alternative. More details on my homepage: http://home.swipnet.se/perz/tt.html#foam. You can use putty or plaster on top of the styrofoam. Plaster is cheaper but I find putty easier to work with. Paint it with water colours. Styrofoam is destroyed by thinner based colours and thinner based glue.

A method to build realistic plaster rocks is presented on Peter Funck's homepage: http://www.peter.funck.net/building.htm#Mountains.

Real soil and sand (as already mentioned) can be used to create bare ground areas. But you can also use spices like cinnamon, allspice, cardamom and black and white pepper for this.

For grass and other vegetation I would recommend commercial products. Among brands, Woodland Scenics is already mentioned, but also Heki, Busch and Faller have good products, just to mention some. You will find it in a model railway shop, but you can also look in wargaming shops (where they sell Warhammer stuff etc.).

Trees and bushes can be made of coloured lichen moss. The coloured lichen moss for model railways is rather expensive, but you can usually find prepared, but non-coloured, lichen moss at christmas time much cheaper. Then, you can paint it green. There are also several other ways to make trees.

Fences can be built from material you have at home or find in the nature, see e.g. my home page: http://home.swipnet.se/perz/tt.html#fence.

To model streets, I use thick grey paper to model concrete and asphalt roads (different shades of grey of course). Paving-stone streets I print out on an ink-jet printer. You can download the paving-stone pattern (Powerpoint format!) from my homepage: http://home.swipnet.se/perz/tt.html#street. Some other stone patterns that can be printed out are found on Peter Funck's homepage: http://www.peter.funck.net/building.htm#Bricks. You can create your own patterns as well, in any suitable (or non suitable, as Powerpoint) drawing program.

Also, to make your money last longer, take a look at the German web shops, e.g. http://www.lokshop.de/ or http://www.modelleisenbahn.com/. You find more of them on the forum Links&downloads page. The prices are significantly lower there than in Sweden, but the shipment cost is added so you have to order rather much at a time to save money on it. If you have friends that share your model railway interest you can go together around a bigger order.

If you want to, I could send you some more specific information in Swedish, e.g. about materials that I use but don't know the exact English word for. In that case, contact me via the forum email function or via the contact form on my home page.
Offline HueyCE  
#11 Posted : 18 August 2004 03:27:53(UTC)
HueyCE


Joined: 12/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,528
Location: Groton, Connecticut
Hi Oliver,
Welcome to the forum. I can't really add anything to what the others have already said. However I can say don't forget to have fun while doing your landscaping. The important thing is that it looks good to you. Also don't forget to run your train every once in a while, when you are putting in scenery, if for no other reason than to enjoy watching it go around the track.
Building German Era I-II layout(Mk IIIc).UserPostedImage

Offline Ranjit  
#12 Posted : 18 August 2004 10:22:39(UTC)
Ranjit


Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 3,023
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
Hi Oliver, and welcome to this fabulous resource on everything Marklin! You find all the answers to your questions in this forum. Try using the search feature for something specific that you may need. Good luck with building your layout and like all the gurus befoe me have said -- HAVE LOTS OF FUN!!

BTW, I am wondering if you are our youngest member?

best regards,
Ranjit
Modelling in HO Scale - Era III & IV. K+M Track, Analogue + Digital
_____________________________________________________________________________

#Get Vaccinated
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"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
Offline David Dewar  
#13 Posted : 18 August 2004 14:34:10(UTC)
David Dewar

Scotland   
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 7,452
Location: Scotland
Hi Oliver
Difficult thing scenery but great fun to do. Dont worry if you make a mistake or dont like it because you can start again. Try a few trees on some grass with one or two people on a small part of the layout. I would use some Faller trees or similar and Woodland scenics scatter material (two or three colours) and a box of six Preiser people. Use a weak mixture of PVA glue and water so you can move the trees if you wish. Fix the Preisers again with a weak mixture of glue.
Keep it small and simple and build on when you get more confidence. And as someone has said remember to run your train.
Have fun
David
Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
Offline john black  
#14 Posted : 18 August 2004 15:45:22(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Hi Oliver Smile - welcome to that great Forum!

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline otidblom  
#15 Posted : 18 August 2004 16:35:49(UTC)
otidblom


Joined: 17/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by kimmo
<br />I am not sure if I understand what you mean by your question, Oliver. Maybe you can explain it with a few more words.

I mean like. What is the name does the modell roads go under (like woodland scenics)?
Offline otidblom  
#16 Posted : 18 August 2004 16:37:31(UTC)
otidblom


Joined: 17/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Ranjit
<br />Hi Oliver, and welcome to this fabulous resource on everything Marklin! You find all the answers to your questions in this forum. Try using the search feature for something specific that you may need. Good luck with building your layout and like all the gurus befoe me have said -- HAVE LOTS OF FUN!!

BTW, I am wondering if you are our youngest member?

I don't really know if i am the youngest in this forum[xx(]biggrin

best regards,
Ranjit
Offline rschaffr  
#17 Posted : 18 August 2004 18:11:21(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,181
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Oliver:
There are several manufacturers of road surfaces (road foil). I have used Faller and Noch, but have decided to do my own. What I am doing now is applying a light coat of Plaster of Paris, sanding it smooth, and painting it with Woodlands Scenic "Asphalt Top Coat", item #1453. They also have a concrete color (#1454). You can paint the lines on or do transfer markers (Faller #180591).
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline kimmo  
#18 Posted : 18 August 2004 18:23:56(UTC)
kimmo


Joined: 11/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 397
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by otidblom
<br />I mean like. What is the name does the modell roads go under (like woodland scenics)?
If you are looking for commercial options for road modelling, suppliers like Woodland Scenics, Noch and Faller each have their own systems. But you can easily manage with simplier methods, like cardboard, plaster and paint, as Per and Ron mention.

Information about Woodland Scenics, for example, you can find from their web-site at www.woodlandscenics.com. Their site contains a lot of useful "how-to" information with step-by-step illustration. It may be useful, regardless if you actually use their products or not.

And regarding commercially available scenic material in general, like turf, foliage, lichen, sand, ballast, etc. Woodland Scenics is probably the most inexpensive option. I have used their products quite a bit.

But take a look at their web-site. Browsing is free!
Kimmo
Offline john black  
#19 Posted : 18 August 2004 18:49:09(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Hi Oliver Smile - here comes another very good and low priced dealer for you:

www.fundgrube-neandertal.de

By the way, you can save lots of money when comparing prices from at least 3 dealers, always looking for bargains and buying Starter Sets, such sets could be rewarding for you at least the next years (we so-called "adults" biggrin must watch our pennies, too, we also look for bargains when hunting down new items, always ... [:p]).
Two examples - 2 months ago I've bought a brand new 32VA Transformer (No.6647) for just € 15.- each!!! (from a dealer-cannibalized starter set) and 2 weeks ago I've bought one very nice Starter Set (No. 29857) - for just € 299.- I got a beautyful and fully digital 18.4 steam loco, 3 nice coaches, one Control Unit 6021, one 60VA transformer plus some track [:p].
I know you're 14 and those € 300.- are a very substantial sum but in a solo buy you'd pay that same amount of money alone for the loco or the control unit. So if you have the possibility for saving your cash over a given period of time and then buy a whole set you are much better off then with most solo buys ...
As set no. 29857 was just an example (it may no longer be available now) please take a look at the new digital starter sets with the new mobile station - they are very great and money saving offers [:p]. Anyway, some dealers also have very good bargains on single locos or other items deriving from cannibalized starter sets biggrin
One last tip: you can buy a used loco (a short test would be just fine before plunking down your hard earned cash), you can buy a used car but your tracks you should ALWAYS buy new - saves you lots of trouble Smile!

Wish you much fun with M Smile

Best Regards
John

I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline kimmo  
#20 Posted : 18 August 2004 19:04:25(UTC)
kimmo


Joined: 11/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 397
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr
<br />What I am doing now is applying a light coat of Plaster of Paris, sanding it smooth, and painting it with Woodlands Scenic "Asphalt Top Coat", item #1453. They also have a concrete color (#1454).
I did the same thing, and used Woodland Scenics #1454 paint.
Kimmo
Offline otidblom  
#21 Posted : 18 August 2004 20:36:37(UTC)
otidblom


Joined: 17/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: ,
Thank you all for your helpfull responses. I have one more question. In the märklin catalouge it says some waggons (espeially people coaches) are suitible for other locomotives than the one (3000) I have. Is there any bad point in using them anyway?
Offline kimmo  
#22 Posted : 18 August 2004 21:03:06(UTC)
kimmo


Joined: 11/08/2003(UTC)
Posts: 397
Location: ,
I think such remarks are there mainly for prototypical reasons. It means that certain locomotive has actually been pulling those wagons in real world, and would therefore be a prototypical choice to go with the wagons. Technically there shouldn't be any problem with any locomotive, unless the consist of wagons is very heavy. In such case a small locomotive like 3000 might not have enough friction power to manage any uphills.
Kimmo
Offline rschaffr  
#23 Posted : 18 August 2004 22:03:15(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,181
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
True. I don't pay a lot of attention to that, except in certain cases (such as the TEE and the Lufthansa Airport Express). You have to be careful, though. Some have special couplers such as the several generations of the Marklin current conducting couplers. They will not mate with other cars. Even within that type, there are several variations that don't mate together (i.e. our 3370/3770 ICE has an older style CC coupler that will not mate with the newer ones)
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline otidblom  
#24 Posted : 19 August 2004 17:38:50(UTC)
otidblom


Joined: 17/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: ,
OK. But i have tested all my waggons (7) + my cousins (4) and my 3000 loc actually pulled them round my layout, so i dont think 5-6 perople waggons should be a problem:-)
ANother question. The rubber thing around one of the wheels is not so good anymore. Can I change it myself (sets to buy?) or do I have to go to my märklin dealer?
Offline rschaffr  
#25 Posted : 19 August 2004 17:55:10(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,181
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
The tires (for the 3000 it is part# 7154) are quite inexpensive. They come in a package of 10 (I believe). In the case of a dampflok, or any one with external linkages, you have to remove the linkage to change the tires. It is not hard, but if you are uncomfortable doing that, take it to your dealer. It should not cost too much.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline Night Train  
#26 Posted : 20 August 2004 00:52:33(UTC)
Night Train


Joined: 30/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 67
Location: ,
What looks good in your eyes is all that matters. I, being a writer/poet myself try to put a little creativity into everything I do. It doesn't matter what the medium you use to make your scenery with, just as long as you use creativity. (I sometimes use old Bugler and Folgers cans to make storage tanks. I also utilize packing materials I get from appliances and styrofoam from old insulation to make my scenery areas.) Also, there are some reasonably-priced kits available at your local hobby shop. I am currently working on a small station I bought from my hobby shop that I only paid ten bucks for. I also make small rectangular buildings out of cardboard boxes. To make more realistic shingles I cut, paint, and glue strips of kerf-cut computer paper onto my buildings' roofs. There are ways to make your layout look good, but the three pieces of advice I give you is to be patient, be creative, and whatever looks good to you is all that matters!
Offline otidblom  
#27 Posted : 20 August 2004 15:57:18(UTC)
otidblom


Joined: 17/08/2004(UTC)
Posts: 21
Location: ,
ok, thank you for your help.
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