Hello,

I'm trying to decide between the Sudwind 42993 car set in the current catalogue, and the regular cream and red 4085 cars to go with my Insider 2003 class 103.

The Sudwind set appears to have a dark grey roof - compared to the regular silver roof of the 4085 series, and the shade of red seems darker. I don't know very much about the variation of reds on these cars, but needless to say I want them to match the locomotive. Or - are there any other Marklin versions I should consider. I'm trying to model the regular TEE services of the 70s (bar those with mixed carriages).

Finally, were the DB red and cream TEE cars only ever first class ? I thought they also had second class in these trains.

Thanks,

Paul

Lukas ,
For me it's got to be done , the Sudwind set 42993 color is exactly identical to Br 103 insider model color . Colors are unchanged . Seems to belong to a recent Marklin color chart ( the VT 11 too ). About the 42994 set , blue and cream color belongs to this recent color chart too . I never liked blue and cream color of older models , but this one ( set 42994 ) is really nice ! Also : recent colors are more matt .

But there is another reason why you shouldn't hesitate : they have re-engraved the three models . Engraving has been gone over . More fineness and new details .If you just look at the doors , you will see they have been to engrave differentely each side of it ( in accordance with each real coach ).Opening side is not engraved in the same way than hinges side . On one coach ,now you can see the hinges of the door ( in accordance with reality ) . In fact the whole model has been reviewed and improved , it concerns the three different coaches .Clearness ( transparency ) of "glasses" and window frame too .
On the new sets , the color of bogies and underframe is much nicer . It is a kind of " matt dark brown " which well catches the oxidized appearance of the real bogie or underframe . More " realistic " color . You can also see it on bogies and underframe of the New E 120 Lok ( TEE color scheme - ref 37537 ) .

bye bye

Well I have to say, I don't actually know the answer to this question. I think the red/cream TEE cars were sometimes used for mere ICs. But I have a feeling the red/cream livery only ever applied to 1st class cars. I'm old enough to have travelled in them - but memory tells me that it was only when somebody else was paying! :-) (Indeed, TEE trains had an extra supplement above the 1st class fare...) When I was paying myself it seems the cars had all kinds of livery, but not red/cream.

I think we need to ask a DB expert! Anybody there...?

Straight from the DB itself. All the cars of the TEE were cream and red, they make no mentions of second class coaches. The typical consist was: The locomotive(VT 11.5/601, later 602)-a compartment car-a resteraunt car(w/kitchen)- a Salon car- an open coach- another compartment car(up to 3 more compartment cars would be added here for certain runs)- the other locomotive. I hope this helps.

... although [curiously] the blue / cream cars also come in 1st class.

If my remembering is right, i think the first years of the IC service of the DB was 1st class only,too as it was with the TEE. The ICE service started in the late 80's with 1st and 2nd on board. The last 'invention'of the DB (not known to many people) is the METROPOLITAN train between Hamburg and Cologne which again started as 1st class only and was then changed in the 3rd year to a 'mixed' train.
How was the behaviour with the very,very early FD service in the 50's ? I think these were 1st class only, too, some years ago Märklin has a typical FD loco within the first 'Super' -digital starter pack (29845), a dark blue painted class 03.
In my opinion, only the blue/green and the red/cream color combinations are worth a designer's price, all later colors reflect a little bit the 'plastic' way of life...
Regards
Alfred

I recall fondly riding the TEE/IC frequently from Heidelberg to Frankfurt in the 1979-1982 timeframe. I think it was then that I fell for the E103/Red/Cream consist. I have two on my layout now.

In the last few years I have had the occasion to ride the ICE several times. It is a nice, fast, smooth ride, but lacks the class and charm of the old 103 TEE.

Hi Paul,

Back to your original question, I have the 42993 set, and like others am impressed with the detail, the matt colouring and the bogie colour etc. I think you would be disappointed with the 4085 etc, although they are shorter and may look better on tight curves, and also have that old nostelgia charm being old Marklin tinplate...

I have just bought an older 3357 103 lok that I will digitalise, and I hope that the colours on this older lok are a good enough match for the coaches. I have put off buying the matching 37537 class 120 for the meantime.

hi everybody
Just a site about european TEE youhttp://homepages.cwi.nl/...transport/TEE/stock.html
bye bye

Originally posted by luckas
<br />What about the IC's ? Did they have a second class red and cream ?




Never have Second class[xx(]

Yeah,you are right.