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Offline perz  
#1 Posted : 14 September 2003 21:46:50(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Inspired by Alonso's booster question (the "a question" topic), I made some measurements of the power consumption of my locos when controlled digitally. I have previously made measurements in analog AC operation. Some general results:
<ul><li>Delta locos draw most power. 6090x come second, C-Sine are lower and the "Glockenancker"-motors have the lowest consumption. </li>
<li>Märklin's own figures on power consumption are exaggerated. I have measured 12-15 VA on an accelerating 37761 railcar (60901 motor) going uphills with internal lights on, in AC operation. In digital operation with the same model there is no way to get near that figure.</li>
<li>In digital operation, the power consumption is speed dependent but not very load dependent. This is similar to what you see with analog and Delta locos in AC mode. In AC mode, the power consumption of the fully regulated motors seem more load dependent than speed dependent. </li></ul>

The highest power consumption I measured in digital mode on any model was 8.6 VA. This was a 39700 Railcar (C-Sine), going full speed up a 5% grade with head lights and inner lights on. This is a C-Sine model, but it has many inner lights, that's why it was the worst. With lights off, it drew only 3.6 VA under the same conditions.

My only Delta loco, a 3132 (DHG 700 diesel) drew 8.2 VA alone and 8.4 VA with four cars, in the same 5% grade.

A 37744 (BR216 diesel, 60901 motor) consumed 4.9 VA with lights on. With four cars it rose to 5.0 VA and with 20 cars to 5.5 VA.

A 37646 (MaK diesel, "Glockenancker"-motor with Märklin regulated decoder) drew 3.1 VA with lights on. With four cars 3.9 VA and with 20 cars 4.4 VA. Of this, the lights contribute with about 0.8 VA. On flat ground with lights off and four cars, it only consumed 1.9 VA.

A 37645 with LokPilot decoder (same as the 37646 except for the decoder) generally drew 0.25 VA less than the all Märklin version. The difference was the same independent on load conditions.

Two older locos, a 3067 NOHAB diesel and a V60 diesel, converted with 60904 and 60903 respectively consumed around 5.5 VA alone and 5.9 VA with four cars, i.e. around 12-18 % more than the 60901 loco.

Note that the figures are at full speed and 5% grade uphills. On flat ground and/or lower speed the consumption is lower. The motor plus head lights on a fully digital loco should hardly exceed 4 VA when running in normal speed on flat ground. Inner lights, smoke generators and TELEX will add a lot of power consumption of course.

Offline Lars Westerlind  
#2 Posted : 14 September 2003 22:16:19(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Most interesting.
Did you measure differences with "adult speed", lets say, half speed or less; is the power consumtion half, or even less? What is your impression?

Interesting enough I've had my first overload disconnect (I've had lots of due to shorts before), and still only using an old 30 VA transformer. But that is nominally; I suspect it delivers more, but possibly under a significatn voltage drop...

/Lars
Offline perz  
#3 Posted : 14 September 2003 22:32:52(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Power consumption is not very speed dependent either for 60901 locos. At speed step 1, it is around 75% of the full speed consumption and at speed step 6 it is 80-90% of the full speed consumption. The consumption of the C-Sine and "Glockenancker"-motors is more speed dependent, 70-75% of full speed consumption at speed step 6, and down to around half at speed step 1. This is for the motor alone. When you take head lights and inner lights (not to mention smoke generators and telex) into account, the savings by "careful driving" will be even less.
Offline Webmaster  
#4 Posted : 15 September 2003 00:58:45(UTC)
Webmaster


Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC)
Posts: 11,165
As a comparision, could you also test analog SFCM, LFCM & DCM?
Juhan - "Webmaster", at your service...
He who asks a question is a fool for five minutes. He who does not ask a question remains a fool forever. [Old Chinese Proverb]
Offline perz  
#5 Posted : 15 September 2003 01:22:18(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Webmaster
<br />As a comparision, could you also test analog SFCM, LFCM & DCM?

No, I have converted all my locos except a 3104 and an old SBB crocodile, and those two are not in good shape. I made some tests long ago that indicated around 7-8 VA for all three types. This was with head lights but with no other features. It was not very load dependent. The current was almost independent of speed, which means that the VA rating was almost proportional to the voltage. I never tested with cars at that time, but I had a 5% grade in the test loop.
Offline hqstu  
#6 Posted : 15 September 2003 14:10:50(UTC)
hqstu

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/04/2002(UTC)
Posts: 429
Location: Hamilton, New Zealand
Great work here...

Goes to show how much lighting is an influence in consumption.

Incidently Perz, how did you measure the VA, with what sort of equipment?
Cheers

Stuart
New Zealand
Offline xxup  
#7 Posted : 15 September 2003 14:30:44(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,627
Location: Australia
In theory, if you had no lights on, no other devices (eg turnouts)and good track/contacts then you could run 13 c-sines... Neat!

You can only run 5.5 deltas... Big difference and possibly justifies the extra cost of c-sine engines..

I don't know anyone who could afford 13 c-sines (about A$8,000), but I wish I was one of them..

Sigh!
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline cos_man  
#8 Posted : 15 September 2003 17:28:03(UTC)
cos_man

Greece   
Joined: 26/05/2003(UTC)
Posts: 148
Location: Athens, Greece
Perz,

GREAT information !!!!

As Hqstu suggested please give us some details on the way and equipment used to do these measurements!!!

Costas
Offline cos_man  
#9 Posted : 15 September 2003 17:29:21(UTC)
cos_man

Greece   
Joined: 26/05/2003(UTC)
Posts: 148
Location: Athens, Greece
Dear Stuart, sorry I could not see your name on the reply screen.

Costas
Offline perz  
#10 Posted : 15 September 2003 17:57:19(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
I used a full wave rectifying diode bridge, shorted by a 1 Ohm resistor, in series with the booster output. Then I filtered the voltage over the resistor with an RC filter (12 kOhm, 4.7 uF) to get a DC voltage that I measured with a digital voltmeter. The voltage over the resistor translates to a current: 1 mV =&gt; 1 mA. The VA figure comes from multiplying the measured current with the booster output voltage, which is 20 V. The booster output is almost a square wave (I have checked with an oscilloscope) so any factors depending on the pulse shape can be ignored.
Offline jcegido  
#11 Posted : 15 September 2003 19:56:05(UTC)
jcegido


Joined: 11/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 335
Location: Madrid, Madrid
Uffff!! To much complicated method for me. Any case a great job and a big help to calculate how many of our apreciated "bugs" can we run on our tracks. Thanks Perz.
Juan Carlos
Offline perz  
#12 Posted : 18 September 2003 00:11:31(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
I can add that I also measured the consumption while accelerating: I let the loco stand still in the 5% grade, and then I give maximum speed at once (uphills direction of course). The consumption during acceleration was the same as at constant maximum speed uphills. Note that I made all tests with acceleration/brake delay turned on. If it is turned off I can imagine that the power consumption can be momentarily worse during acceleration.
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