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Offline monster134  
#1 Posted : 18 March 2008 22:23:29(UTC)
monster134

South Africa   
Joined: 23/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 705
Location: ,
Im almost ready for my third board.Ive measured the tracklength and im on just over 50m of track with the new board.I havent detected any running issues as yet,so-when must i start looking at a booster?

I reckon this is exactly 1/3rd of the track im going to have in the end.So a booster would definitely have to come into play at some time.

Thank you.
If at any stage in the defusing of a bomb,you should see a bomb technician running,try your utmost best to keep up with him-Army magazine of preventative action.
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 18 March 2008 22:49:07(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
You need a booster when track voltage drops noticeably or boosters switch off.

The question is: how many trains are running at the same time and how many light bulbs burn?

You know you reached the limit when the booster or central switches off with overload ...
Two fully lighted trains could be too much while six locos with unlighted coaches work fine.

Old AC/DC motors (6080, Delta) draw more current than modern locos.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline mmervine  
#3 Posted : 19 March 2008 03:16:44(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,884
Location: Keene, NH
You can avoid voltage drops by using larger power feeder wires at various points on your layout. Then, you will only need a booster if you are running more than four trains. Other factors can affect power usage such as car lights, turnout motors, signals, etc.

r/mark
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
Offline Larry  
#4 Posted : 19 March 2008 04:42:22(UTC)
Larry

United States   
Joined: 14/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,443
Location: Northeast Ohio
I am always amazed at how much can be put on the tracks and how large a layout can be run completely without boosters.
Offline tekin65  
#5 Posted : 19 March 2008 08:27:33(UTC)
tekin65

Turkey   
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,151
Location: istanbul,
Hi,

Checking out the track voltage in a MS + 60VA transformator set-up, you can run max 2 Br03 digital locomotives with smoke generators on (maybe some lighted coaches too). In this test layout there's no functions or lights connected to the power supply.

You may consider using a Delta control unit as booster.

Regards,

Cem.
3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD

Now all eras but no ICE

My loco inventory for the interested
Offline frankie  
#6 Posted : 19 March 2008 11:30:32(UTC)
frankie


Joined: 27/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 692
Location: Italy
If you have the upgraded CS you can now read the actual power consuption of your layout.
Alessandro
I have a CS1 Reloaded!
Offline nevw  
#7 Posted : 19 March 2008 11:42:05(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
I continiously run 3 Trains, 2 steamers with Smoke Generators on, 6 up to 9 Lighted Carriages, Sound on 2 Steamers, an automatic Level crossing using track power and with the CS no problem.
Not a big layout but it workss
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline monster134  
#8 Posted : 19 March 2008 13:42:45(UTC)
monster134

South Africa   
Joined: 23/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 705
Location: ,
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by frankie
<br />If you have the upgraded CS you can now read the actual power consuption of your layout.


Hey?Where?Mine is the upgraded one.What do i have to push?biggrin
If at any stage in the defusing of a bomb,you should see a bomb technician running,try your utmost best to keep up with him-Army magazine of preventative action.
Offline monster134  
#9 Posted : 19 March 2008 13:46:50(UTC)
monster134

South Africa   
Joined: 23/10/2007(UTC)
Posts: 705
Location: ,
I did run the bigboy with 2 smokers,the BR53 with 2 smokers and a BR03 with a smoker and 6 lighted coaches with no problem whatsoever at 2 amp on the CS.

So,tell me more about the Delta controller.Thats the 1 with all the buttons that looks like a transformer with acne?[:p]

What was the amp rating on those?
If at any stage in the defusing of a bomb,you should see a bomb technician running,try your utmost best to keep up with him-Army magazine of preventative action.
Offline frankie  
#10 Posted : 19 March 2008 13:56:35(UTC)
frankie


Joined: 27/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 692
Location: Italy
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by monster134
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by frankie
<br />If you have the upgraded CS you can now read the actual power consuption of your layout.


Hey?Where?Mine is the upgraded one.What do i have to push?biggrin


Is the icon on the right of the turnout/switch command panel, the one that seem an arrow on dial, version 2.0.4 though.
Alessandro
I have a CS1 Reloaded!
Offline Caplin  
#11 Posted : 19 March 2008 14:24:17(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by monster134
<br />So,tell me more about the Delta controller.Thats the 1 with all the buttons that looks like a transformer with acne?[:p]What was the amp rating on those?
The Delta 4f controller (M* no. 66045) is a 32 VA unit (from the manual, no power decal on the unit itself).
Used as a booster two things must be applied to it:
- the two gray output contacts at the rear panel must be wired (shorted) to each other permanently,
- the gray address selector switch on the top panel left side must be set to the righthand STOP position permanently.

UserPostedImage
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

UserPostedImage
Offline frankie  
#12 Posted : 19 March 2008 14:30:18(UTC)
frankie


Joined: 27/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 692
Location: Italy
To use a 66045 as booster, you have to

1. disconnect the 66045 from the power supply (transformer) so that it is unpowered
2. if you have skipped step 1 go back to step 1
3. disconnect the 6605 and bridge (i.e. directly connect) the two grey plugs
4. feed the digital signal from the CU's (red plug) track output into the blue plug. Use brown as common ground.
5. set the selector switch to the right stop position
6. power on your 66045

Alessandro
I have a CS1 Reloaded!
Offline mmervine  
#13 Posted : 21 March 2008 03:14:14(UTC)
mmervine

United States   
Joined: 30/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,884
Location: Keene, NH
Here is a link to a wiring diagram for a 'Delta booster':

http://www.ete-ene.org/LowCostBoosterArtile.htm

r/mark
Märklin C-track, Marklin Digital & ECoS, multi-era French & Swiss
http://www.ete-ene.org/m...mervines-layout-gallery/
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#14 Posted : 21 March 2008 03:59:15(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Looks like Mark forgot to include the link to his diagram, so here's a picture of how it's done!

UserPostedImage

Don't forget the track isolators between powered sections, and you'll probably need some rocker insulators too - these lift the loco ski as it passes over so that the ski does not short together the 2 powered sections.

Edited by moderator 11 January 2011 14:01:26(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Offline sudibarba  
#15 Posted : 21 March 2008 05:07:54(UTC)
sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 880
Location: Augusta, GA USA
And remember, the delta cannot give more than about 30 amp so a smaller transfomer is fine.
Eric
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#16 Posted : 21 March 2008 05:59:04(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
I think that is meant to be 30va, Eric. 30 amps would weld loco wheels to the track!
Offline Piper  
#17 Posted : 21 March 2008 09:30:04(UTC)
Piper

South Africa   
Joined: 13/09/2005(UTC)
Posts: 262
Location: Johannesburg
Hi Riekus,

It's no question, if you do not have a booster or any of the old stuff, wait for the Marklin booster. If not get the Ecosboost from ESU.

Raait

Pieter

Era I-V / HO / C-Track / MS2, CS2 & CS3 Z gauge. Insider
Member of Märklin Modellers Group
Offline Purellum  
#18 Posted : 21 March 2008 11:32:51(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Hello Monster.

My general advice when using Delta 66045 as boosters. ( I sell many, CHEAP )

The diagram shown by Bigdaddy is correct, WHEN using a 6021 as control unit.

When using a mobile-station or CS as control unit, you should IMHO NOT let
the trains run from a section powered by boosters, to a section powered by MS / CS.
The short you make between the two electrical systems might blow up your MS / CS

Example:

1 layout section powered by CS /MS + 4 sections powered by boosters is IMHO not a good solution

I would power all layout sections by 5 boosters, leaving the output from the CS / MS "unused".

"Unused" as in only used for programming track, and input signal for the boosters.

A have made a "beginners" instruction in Danish, which can be found here
I haven't had time yet to make a English version for you; but please look at the pictures.

Cool

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:And remember, the delta cannot give more than about 30 amp so a smaller transfomer is fine.
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:I think that is meant to be 30va, Eric. 30 amps would weld loco wheels to the track!
Both the above quoted statements are correct!

The Delta 66045 is designed to give 35-40 VA when used as designed.
It has NO electronic maximum-current-circiut; only a bi-metalic fuse.

If powered from a huge transformer, the current in case of a short, WILL BE 30+ Ampere;
until the bi-metalic fuse is heated, and shut the Delta 66045 of.
This period of time, where the current is 30+ Ampere, can be 1-5 seconds.

The short-circiut-current is the reason for me to ALWAYS recommend a small transformer.

In the article on the Danish forum is shown a setup, using 5 Delta 66045 + 5 x 6647 transformer.

I find this solution good, even though ONE big transformer could have delivered
the same current; I will not recommend anyone to use a big trafo.

Follow Me! and you will find my Delta 66045 offer.
Cut the crap and the silly jokes; the essence of the offer is true, I have lots in stock.

As you are my first potential customer in SA, I might be tempted to give you a discount!

Send me a E-mail / private message, and I'll make you an offer you can't refuse Cool wink

I'll be back.

Per.



If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline Purellum  
#19 Posted : 21 March 2008 12:14:41(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Just 4 fun.

My offer on the Danish forum "Sporskiftet", 100 DKK = 13 EURO + shipment

My offer on this forum, 11 EURO + shipment

One of my first auctions; QXL is a Danish equivalent to Ebay. 270 DKK = 33 EURO

Believe it or not, I called the above buyer, and told him, that he had bid too high, and that
I only wanted 200 DKK, including shipment AND a good feedback in the QXL system.
We talked on the phone for half an hour, I trust him to give me GOOD feedback biggrin

Or, try Google, using these words: Purellum Delta Booster

Some people just don't do their homework well enough biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

The Purellum Trading Company is growing fast now biggrin biggrin biggrin biggrin

Per.
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline nevw  
#20 Posted : 21 March 2008 12:34:42(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,071
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
[:p]Smile[^][:(!][xx(][:(]Cool[B)]confused[:X][:0]Smile PEr Do Not forget 10% Commission to the CLAN. OR Beware. [}:)][}:)]biggrin
NOt wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now I have a white Pinny which also is hard to see against MY pure white Skin Still have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching rusting tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
Offline Purellum  
#21 Posted : 21 March 2008 16:31:04(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Nev; I haven't forgot about the Clan.

I haven't forgot about yours and the other's Wooden Hand Uncouplers either; I've just been too busy [:I]

+ I have a lot of additional bad excuses, in case you should ask again biggrin

You WILL recieve your Wooden Hand Uncoupler one day, so far only proto-types have been given out.

Test-reports show a somehow similar patern, most testers use more or less the same words:

I HATE to admit it, and I HATE to say it; but the Wooden Hand Uncoupler works very well [^]

Why they hate admiting and saying it, I don't know Cool

Per.


If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline intruder  
#22 Posted : 21 March 2008 20:25:48(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
I find it very difficult to uncouple my cars with the Purellum Wooden Hand Uncoupler.

Maybe it is something wrong with mine, as it is a prototype.
The cars very easy derails, and even fall over on the side, when attempting to uncouple. I have even tested with some Danish cars, if the Purellum Wooden Hand Uncoupler should work only on Danish cars.

I have tested from the right side, from the left side, with my right hand hand my left hand all with both ends of the Purellum Wooden Hand Uncoupler. Very difficult.

I even asked my wife to test. She refused [:(]

A photografic evidence:

UserPostedImage

I need some advice.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline dntower85  
#23 Posted : 21 March 2008 21:17:19(UTC)
dntower85

United States   
Joined: 08/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,218
Location: Shady Shores, TX - USA
biggrin
DT
Now powered by ECoS II unit#2, RocRail
era - some time in the future when the space time continuum is disrupted and ICE 3 Trains run on the same rails as the Adler and BR18's.
Offline Purellum  
#24 Posted : 21 March 2008 22:03:42(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,505
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
[V]
If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
Offline jonquinn  
#25 Posted : 22 March 2008 00:48:32(UTC)
jonquinn


Joined: 15/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,591
Location: Pennsylvania
It would be nice to get one of the authoritative views about digital setup to participate on here like Dr. Tom Catherall. Maybe Jeff Stimson could ask if he'd consider signing on?
People would just have to be mindful not to deluge him with questions.
Only reason I'm saying this it seems there are several opinions here responding to Monster's question.
Offline intruder  
#26 Posted : 22 March 2008 01:10:45(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,382
Location: Akershus, Norway
In a semi-big layout I think I would devide my tracks into electrical sections, and fead each section by a separate booster.

Maybe like this?
Booster 1 - main station and shunting area with several switches, signals and locomotives in operation
Booster 2 - main line, longer track section, including block operation. Maybe three or four trains in operation simultaniously
(Booster 2b - if more trains and a double track main line I would feed each track with it's own booster)
Booster 3 - sidetracks, locomotive maintanance area etc.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline Caplin  
#27 Posted : 22 March 2008 01:12:12(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
My earlier post here

quote
Posted - 2008/03/19 : 13:24:17 by Caplin
Used as a booster two things must be applied to it:
- the two gray output contacts at the rear panel must be wired (shorted) to each other permanently,
- the gray address selector switch on the top panel left side must be set to the righthand STOP position permanently.

unquote

is not a setup to run trains by but how I intend to use one 66045 as the external power source for all turnouts to save digital power. The turnouts will be equipped with Viessmann decoders - either the k83 decoder 5211 or the inbuilt decoders 5231 and 5235. They all accept an external power source. The two requirements listed is quoted from the Delta Control 4f manual chapter 6.


Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

UserPostedImage
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