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Caplin		#1 Posted : 29 July 2008 19:25:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		This loco is too old for being included in the Product database. Can I ask you for what year(s) it was produced and any other relevant information. Thank you.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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steventrain		#2 Posted : 29 July 2008 20:58:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,695 Location: United Kingdom		The 3301 53 002 DRG was Delta version, Production 1995-1999. See the link. http://www.bahn.hfkern.d...aerklin/Dt_Loks_D53.html Full Marklin loco database on http://www.bahn.hfkern.de/Maerklin/Menue.html
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Guus		#3 Posted : 29 July 2008 22:47:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Hi Benny, According to Koll's catalogue this information is confirmed. Both the DELTA and the digital version were produced for four years from 1995 till 1998. Exact description according to Kolls: Lok mit Tender,Bauart Mallet,Achsfolge (1'C) D,Baureihe 53 der DRG,grau/schwarz Guß/Kunststoff,beids. 2Stirnlampen,weiße aufschriften,Betriebsnummer 53 00002, Räder geschwärzt,vorn Scheibenräder,vorn HK 9.1(coupler type) Wannentender fünfachsig,grau,Kunststoff,KKKopf,>31,4cm< 4 Jahr 1995-1998 Kind regards Guus
		Kind regards, Guus
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Caplin		#4 Posted : 29 July 2008 23:04:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Thanks Stephen and Guus for very good information. May I ask also what exactly Delta is? This was before my M* start. I just assumed it was a kind of simple digital. I have acquired one 3301 and was told by the seller that it will run on both digital and analog systems. I read in another topic that it is worthwhile to update to 5* with various decoders at choice.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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H0		#5 Posted : 29 July 2008 23:35:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,451 Location: DE-NW		Delta normally means: 15 addresses available without soldering (80 with soldering), intensity of light changes with speed (digital loco, but lights simulate analog operation ). No load regulation. Most delta locos have the old AC/DC motor ("Allstrommotor"); nothing can be adjusted, speed characteristics are not good.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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xxup		#6 Posted : 30 July 2008 12:32:14(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC) Posts: 9,595 Location: Australia		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by h-zero <br />... speed characteristics are not good. Now that's an understatement..
		Adrian Australia flag by abFlags.com
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Caplin		#7 Posted : 30 July 2008 13:55:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by h-zero <br />....No load regulation. Most delta locos have the old AC/DC motor ("Allstrommotor"); nothing can be adjusted, speed characteristics are not good. Is the old AC/DC motor you mention equal to the DCM type? My 3301 loco arrived to-day. Its brand new in box just kept by a collector. After oiling the bearings the loco is running - with flickering front light intensity by speed. I agree to the above statements. Being a new loco I think it will be worthwhile updating. I found a very good topic here for updating a 3302 which should be very helpfull. https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...8&SearchTerms=mallet
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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steventrain		#8 Posted : 30 July 2008 14:46:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,695 Location: United Kingdom		Very nice, Benny.[:p]
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Guus		#9 Posted : 30 July 2008 14:49:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Congratulations Benny, I'm not Tom,but I think both of you won't mind that I answer your question. The motor is a DCM of an older generation. Part number of the rotor # 231440 Kind regards Guus
		Kind regards, Guus
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RayF		#10 Posted : 30 July 2008 14:53:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Nice loco Benny! Enjoy! Ray
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Caplin		#11 Posted : 30 July 2008 14:57:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Guus <br />The motor is a DCM of an older generation. Thanks Guus. I hope that it can still be upgraded with the 60760 kit - otherwise I have bought "the cat in the sack" [B)] Can it?
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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Guus		#12 Posted : 30 July 2008 15:43:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Caplin I hope that it can still be upgraded with the 60760 kit - otherwise I have bought "the cat in the sack" [B)] Can it? Hi Benny, This loc isn't mentioned in the Märklin lists on digital conversions I have. Maybe someone else will know whether it's a model that can be converted easily. Another idea might be to try and obtain the motor parts of the digital version 3701 and install the decoder of the 60760 kit. This may not be the most economical solution,but still....... Kind regards Guus
		Kind regards, Guus
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RayF		#13 Posted : 30 July 2008 16:15:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		If it is a DCM it should be possible to use the 60760. Sometimes it is necessary to mount the motor shield upside down, but other than that it should be OK. Ray
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Guus		#14 Posted : 30 July 2008 16:36:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 2,616		Hi Benny,hi Ray, The following site has a nicely documented overhaul of a Borsig Mallet locomotive just like yours and with the motor shield mounted upside down like Ray mentioned. http://www.eisenbahnclinic.com/ It's to be found at the "Projects" button. I'm not quite sure but I believe this most interesting site was suggested by Jvuye not so long ago. Kind regards Guus
		Kind regards, Guus
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DasBert33		#15 Posted : 30 July 2008 18:10:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,274		How much did you pay for it? I was bidding for one on ebay the last days but everyone seemed to bid higher than me. Maybe you snatched away this one before I did. Bert
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H0		#16 Posted : 30 July 2008 18:47:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,451 Location: DE-NW		Hi! Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Caplin <br />Is the old AC/DC motor you mention equal to the DCM type? DCM, LFCM, and SFCM are all AC/DC motors. Some folks remove the MRU, install two diodes instead, and run the loco with DC. Delta locos with DC motors (e. g. E 69, ET 194, Schweineschnäuzchen) behave a little bit better - like Piko Hobby locos with AnDi, I think. Still not really good. Those don't need a motor update. With respect to 3301 this is OT, but you also asked what Delta is.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Caplin		#17 Posted : 30 July 2008 20:29:26(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DasBert33 <br />I was bidding for one on ebay the last days but everyone seemed to bid higher than me. Maybe you snatched away this one before I did. Well, could have been me, because I did outbid somebody, but I was not bidding on ebay.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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Caplin		#18 Posted : 30 July 2008 20:33:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Guus <br /> http://www.eisenbahnclinic.com/ I bookmarked this very interesting link. Thank you.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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Caplin		#19 Posted : 30 July 2008 20:37:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas <br />If it is a DCM it should be possible to use the 60760. Sometimes it is necessary to mount the motor shield upside down, but other than that it should be OK. Thanks Ray. I have a 60760 kit and I am anxious to have a go at it.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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Caplin		#20 Posted : 30 July 2008 20:45:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by h-zero <br />Hi! Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Caplin <br />Is the old AC/DC motor you mention equal to the DCM type? DCM, LFCM, and SFCM are all AC/DC motors. Some folks remove the MRU, install two diodes instead, and run the loco with DC. Delta locos with DC motors (e. g. E 69, ET 194, Schweineschnäuzchen) behave a little bit better - like Piko Hobby locos with AnDi, I think. Still not really good. Those don't need a motor update. With respect to 3301 this is OT, but you also asked what Delta is. Thanks Tom. It is a bit confusing with all these types. [:o)] According to Helmut Kerns page the 3301 is equipped with a DCM motor and the 60760 kit should be adequate. I am going to try that later on.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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DasBert33		#21 Posted : 30 July 2008 21:08:13(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,274		So no hints on how much I should (not) spend on it?
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Caplin		#22 Posted : 30 July 2008 21:41:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by DasBert33 <br />So no hints on how much I should (not) spend on it? Well, I got it for 245 EUR. [:0] Being a brand new one in its box (does this mean a mint condition?), I was determined to get it, so the bidding did go somewhat higher than I first anticipated. I will spend some money on upgrade starting with a 60760 kit - then see how that goes. I might even buy a better decoder later on. Right now at ebay one 3302 for only 54 EUR including 2 smoke gens. http://cgi.ebay.de/3102-...WDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem. Wish I had seen that one before. [:(!]
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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pserup		#23 Posted : 31 July 2008 00:13:57(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 897 Location: Ramløse, Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by CaplinWish I had seen that one before. [:(!] ... don't worry, it'll go much higher before closing [}:)] So enjoy your new loco without reservation ... congrats [:p]
		CS, Denmark/Germany Ep. I - V, Switzerland Ep. II - V, USA Ep. III/IV
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sudibarba		#24 Posted : 31 July 2008 05:20:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA		What am I missing here. That looks like a beautifull lok. Put a magnet and a ESU decoder in it for about $50 and play with the CV's if you don't like the way it runs. I have not noticed great improvement going to a 5 pole motor but maybe I'm missing something there also. I believe Dale S. made a similar comment - Dale if I'm wrong , please correct me. Eric
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Caplin		#25 Posted : 31 July 2008 06:09:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Eric, I can't really tell because I have upgraded this loco now with a 60760 kit (less the decoder) and a Lokpilot 3.0 decoder. The way I test the running is with a heavy load of freight cars/wagons and there was a tremendous difference before/after the upgrade. The loco would run erraticly both on accelleration and slowing down before and now it runs very smoothly in all steps. Could I have achieved this smoothness by a magnet and decoder alone I am not so sure. You are right, it is a beautiful loco.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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sudibarba		#26 Posted : 31 July 2008 08:03:24(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC) Posts: 880 Location: Augusta, GA USA		I am really happy that your solution is fine. As each of us never knows, as we can not really due an A - B test unless we somehow do a double conversion and compare results,I thnk that we each have to do what makes sense to us. I think that any real improvement over a simple conversion would involve roller bearings as mnentioned in an other post. But far too expensive. Be very happy with your pretty locomotive. I am very happy with an old 3048 I just did. Eric
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DasBert33		#27 Posted : 01 August 2008 19:38:50(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,274		I just scored me a 3701 on Ebay for my birthday in 12 days ! I will also digitize it with a lokpilot, or with my own developed sounddecoder (more on that in a thread later). It will be my biggest steamer. Bert (Btw I will pay ~164euro incl. shipping, it remains to be seen whether it is in a shape as good as Bennys).
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Caplin		#28 Posted : 01 August 2008 20:12:51(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Congratulations Bert, a very good price. Looking forward to follow your upgrade topic. Sounds very interesting with your own sound decoder. Has this been published before?
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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DasBert33		#29 Posted : 01 August 2008 20:33:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/01/2004(UTC) Posts: 1,274		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by Caplin Sounds very interesting with your own sound decoder. Has this been published before? Nope, It is not complete yet. The PCB is designed and individual circuits are tested on breadboard prints. (like eg. the sound amplifier). It is FPGA based, the (DCC) logic + motor control is already running on another FPGAboard. The logic + sound together is fully working in simulation only. The only thing really left to implement is load control for the motors, but the PCB is ready for that so it should be no problem. The decoder has 10 (!) function outputs (F0 front, F0 rear, F1-F8) and has 2 motor drivers (2 H-bridges). It measures 43*25mm. If you cut off one motorcontrol and 2 function outputs it can be 35*25mm. But this is OT, I will post more on this and pictures when I have the final hardware up and running. Bert
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mvd71		#30 Posted : 09 August 2008 09:55:20(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,929 Location: Auckland,		Hi Benny, Do you mind if I ask how much it cost you to upgrade the loco? ie, the cost of the 60760 and the lokpilot decoder. Also, how do you intend to run the twin smoke units? And a question for all the people who recommended the 60760 kit. Why? The 60921 kit, whilst more expensive is the correct kit for this loco, as it already has the additional funtionality to drive the smoke units, albeit with a relay to allow for the current requirements. Cheers.... Mike.
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steventrain		#31 Posted : 09 August 2008 23:30:10(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC) Posts: 31,695 Location: United Kingdom		Welcome to the forum, Mike.
		Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
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Macca		#32 Posted : 10 August 2008 07:57:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/11/2006(UTC) Posts: 33 Location: Auckland,		I have an analogue 3201 I purchased in the 1970s. I presume it can be converted to digital without too much trouble if I wished to do so? It has never been run. Cheers, Paul
		Quite a few Loks & bits & pieces but no layout yet, hope I never grow up
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Bigdaddynz		#33 Posted : 10 August 2008 08:17:24(UTC) Retweet
You have been a member since:: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,772 Location: New Zealand		Mike, the 60760 does have function outputs, although officially they are undocumented. There are threads on the forum here that show you how to locate the function outputs. However, they are limited to around 150ma current output, so are probably no good for smoke units, especially two of them. You should be able to get the 60760 from the Lokshop for around $60 plus postage. Lokpilot decoders are around $75 from Dion at Toottoot, and he has all the motor parts for a HE 5 pole motor upgrade, which would cost around $90. Dion also has the Loksound decoders for around $235. He can get the mfx Loksound decoders for $375. So for this loco type you would probably go for the 60921, or either the Loksound or Lokpilot plus 5 pole motor upgrade, simply because of the extra functions it has. The 60760 is suitable for basic locos with no extra functions other than headlights, say for example, one of my BR111's, or a V100. Another point to note is that the 60760 has only 14 speed steps, so if you want 28 speed steps then go for a lokpilot, or for 128 speed steps go for a mfx decoder. BTW, welcome to the forum. I recognise your user name from Trademe.
		WWW BLOG
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intruder		#34 Posted : 12 August 2008 02:58:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 5,382 Location: Akershus, Norway		Congratulations, Benny. A very nice locomotive. BTW, according to old information, if you use two smoke generators, their power should be controlled by a relay, regardless of which Märklin decoder you use.
		Best regards Svein, Norway grumpy old sod
		WWW
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intruder		#35 Posted : 12 August 2008 02:59:40(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 5,382 Location: Akershus, Norway		Welcome to this fantastic forum, Mike!
		Best regards Svein, Norway grumpy old sod
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mvd71		#36 Posted : 14 August 2008 13:38:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,929 Location: Auckland,		Hi Big daddy, Thanks for the answer. You seem to be in agreement with me that the 60921 is the correct choice for this loco. I only asked because a few people were recommending the 60760, and I didn't feel it was correct. By the way, an mfx sound decoder from Dion is only $259.00, not $375.00 Cheers.... Mike.
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RayF		#37 Posted : 14 August 2008 15:55:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		60921 is obviously way better than the 60760, but also about 4 times the price. You get what you pay for (generally).
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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mvd71		#38 Posted : 15 August 2008 13:52:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,929 Location: Auckland,		I would agree in all aspects ray, except that by purchasing the entire 60760 kit and a lokpilot decoder it is only $25 NZ cheaper, and you don't have an mfx decoder. But as long as Benny is happy with the loco and its performance, that is all that really matters. Cheers.... Mike.
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RayF		#39 Posted : 15 August 2008 14:17:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 15,870 Location: Gibraltar, Europe		Yes Mike, but I meant the 60760 set using its own included decoder. For most purposes the performance of this decoder is adequate. Of course, if you want more functions then you will need to replace the decoder, but I haven't bothered to do this ever! I have 6 or 7 loks converted like this and I'm happy with their performance. I make the acceleration delay longer than usual to disguise the speed steps. Ray
		Ray Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Caplin		#40 Posted : 18 August 2008 20:42:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC) Posts: 2,497 Location: Denmark		Quote: [size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by mvd71 <br />Do you mind if I ask how much it cost you to upgrade the loco? ie, the cost of the 60760 and the lokpilot decoder. Also, how do you intend to run the twin smoke units? Hi Mike. Sorry for late answering. The 60760 kit is 30 EUR and the LP 3.0 is 23 EUR (Lokshop prices) - Totally 53 EUR (appr. 109 NZD). I have no plans to add smoke units.
		Regards, Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL
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mvd71		#41 Posted : 20 August 2008 09:53:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,929 Location: Auckland,		Thanks Benny, the numbers don't quite add up on that combo in NZ. Interesting. Still, I hope you get a lot of enjoyment from your loco. Cheers..... Mike.
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