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Offline TashTrain  
#1 Posted : 30 January 2024 10:51:17(UTC)
TashTrain

Netherlands   
Joined: 30/01/2024(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Noord-Holland, Diemen
New member, so hope this is the right place to ask:

I would like to add basic up/down switches to a board with a diagram showing the turnout points on the layout so my daughter(s) can manually operate the turnouts. However I would also like to operate them digitally with a MS2 and later, a CS3.

I understand this can be done by using the m84 decoders, but how specifically do I wire in the manual switches - if someone could provide a comprehensive explanation and/or even better, a diagram to help the 3 of us would be extremely grateful. Thanks.
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Offline einotuominen  
#2 Posted : 30 January 2024 11:46:24(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 382
Location: Kaarina
Hi there and welcome to the forums.

The M83 is the correct decoder for turnouts while the M84 is used to accessories that need constant power, like illumination.

You will need to have a transformer to power the manual switches. Perhaps this one: https://www.maerklinshop...afety-transformer.-32-va

The simplest schema is to connect the turnout motor's yellow wire to both, the M83 central terminal and to the yellow connector in the transformer. You need to split the yellow and blue wires from the turnout motor to two per wire.

You then connect two of the blue wires to the red and green port of the M83 and that gives you digital control over the turnout.

Now the remaining two blue wires will need to be connected to a manual switch. The switch should be spring loaded threeway switch. Blue wires got to the both sides of the switch, while center of the switch should go to the gray port in the transformer.

This is the very basic setup, but there are things to consider:

- Diodes. I think (other members, please correct me if I'm wrong) you need to restrict the power to flow only out from the transformer and the M83. So transformer can't power the M83 and vice versa. I believe this is crucial. Not sure if ground needs to be treated like this also, as ground is just ground...

- Splitting the wires. You will need a way to split the gray wire from the transformer to go to the center of all the switches.

- Same splitting thing for the yellow wire coming from the transformer.

Please other, validate this as I may be wrong.

All of this will be a hell of a wire mess. BigGrin

BR,
-Eino
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Offline rhfil  
#3 Posted : 30 January 2024 13:08:36(UTC)
rhfil

United States   
Joined: 05/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 427
Location: NEW HAMPSHIRE, Somersworth
Get the CS3 and you won't need the board, the up and down toggles, the M83 or M84, or a second transformer.
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Offline TashTrain  
#4 Posted : 30 January 2024 13:36:35(UTC)
TashTrain

Netherlands   
Joined: 30/01/2024(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Noord-Holland, Diemen
Originally Posted by: rhfil Go to Quoted Post
Get the CS3 and you won't need the board, the up and down toggles, the M83 or M84, or a second transformer.


The whole point of using a lighted board with rocker switches is to get the girls to follow the turnout diagram(s) and not hand them the (expensive CS3) controller. Not only that but similar pictures I have seen of this setup look really nice, especially if a LED/Light is lit next to the switch.

As they get older, I'm sure we can add in all kinds of things and maybe even automation. But for now, I'd like a simple version.

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Offline BenP  
#5 Posted : 30 January 2024 15:48:33(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: TashTrain Go to Quoted Post


The whole point of using a lighted board with rocker switches is to get the girls to follow the turnout diagram(s) and not hand them the (expensive CS3) controller. Not only that but similar pictures I have seen of this setup look really nice, especially if a LED/Light is lit next to the switch.



I see the appeal of your more visual approach. Once you install k/m83 for digital control (two blue, one yellow wires), you only need a common ground pulse switch for blue wires, splitted as described earlier.
Alternatively, a touchpad interface might offer the same visual appeal as a physical button layout for today's e-savvy young ones, requiring only digital setup. The cs3 can be touchscreen copied with vnc or with the much-improved 2.5.1 software interface. Note that you can have multiple active touchscreens connected to a single cs3 station.
Ben
Digital M (+ some K) track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories, and small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
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Offline marklinist5999  
#6 Posted : 30 January 2024 16:09:38(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,140
Location: Michigan, Troy
Originally Posted by: TashTrain Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: rhfil Go to Quoted Post
Get the CS3 and you won't need the board, the up and down toggles, the M83 or M84, or a second transformer.


The whole point of using a lighted board with rocker switches is to get the girls to follow the turnout diagram(s) and not hand them the (expensive CS3) controller. Not only that but similar pictures I have seen of this setup look really nice, especially if a LED/Light is lit next to the switch.

As they get older, I'm sure we can add in all kinds of things and maybe even automation. But for now, I'd like a simple version.

yes, I get it, but a button is a button 🔘 wether or not it's a mechanical rocker or on a screen. They can watch the turnout moves and hear the clicks. Kids today are way ahead of us at their age. In a short time, they will be setting up events in the CS3 for automatic activation.

Offline einotuominen  
#7 Posted : 30 January 2024 17:12:39(UTC)
einotuominen

Finland   
Joined: 19/09/2022(UTC)
Posts: 382
Location: Kaarina
The great benefit of a rocker button is that you can feel it and keep your fingers on them. You can operate them without turning your eyes on them vs. The touch screen.

-Eino
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Offline BenP  
#8 Posted : 30 January 2024 23:31:43(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: einotuominen Go to Quoted Post
The great benefit of a rocker button is that you can feel it and keep your fingers on them. You can operate them without turning your eyes on them vs. The touch screen.

-Eino


You are right. A tactile interface is different experience. I enjoy running my analog Z layout with switch boxes and fondly recall 6021 with attached keyboard for control of early digital HO. Never much liked the look nor feel of cramped screen cs3, so I transitioned to PC interface.
Ben
Digital M (+ some K) track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories, and small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by BenP
Offline TashTrain  
#9 Posted : 05 February 2024 10:00:13(UTC)
TashTrain

Netherlands   
Joined: 30/01/2024(UTC)
Posts: 5
Location: Noord-Holland, Diemen
Originally Posted by: BenP Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: TashTrain Go to Quoted Post


I see the appeal of your more visual approach. Once you install k/m83 for digital control (two blue, one yellow wires), you only need a common ground pulse switch for blue wires, splitted as described earlier.

Ben


Hi Ben, been busy building the layout and it will be a while before I get the CS3, so going to try the switch option. Can you expand on the above please, does this mean I don't need a separate transformer and can you better explain the wiring to the switch?. Thanks

Derek

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