Faller 648 for Märklin crossing

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Faller 648 for Märklin crossing - Resistor gets too warm

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Ivan		#1 Posted : 08 January 2024 17:58:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/08/2018(UTC) Posts: 103 Location: Potsdam		Faller 648 gives impulse for blinking warning lights (there are two connections). It works fine but the resistor (75 Ohm) gets very warm as soon as the Faller 648 is connected to the transformer. I am aware that resistors emit heat, but this looks excessive (almost burns the skin). I tested it with one bulb, though. It probably needs two bulbs for proper circuit function, no idea. There are no movable parts and I really do not understand how it works. Any info on Faller 648 is greatly appreciated. Thanks

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Ivan		#2 Posted : 08 January 2024 21:37:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/08/2018(UTC) Posts: 103 Location: Potsdam		It looks like some kind of thermal switch; the coil (arrow) heats up but I do not see any movement of the contact. Very curious what principle was applied here. Lamps do blink.

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Jimmy Thompson		#3 Posted : 09 January 2024 00:36:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC) Posts: 613 Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City		Ivan, I am going to wade right in to the deep end and suggest that the heating is owing to the fact that this is also to be hooked up to the vintage Faller AMS roadway system, which would add a certain amount of resistance (or power draw), and it is also to be triggered by the train passing its mechanism at the rails, it triggers the power off to the AMS road section and turns on the lights. When the train has passed, it resets the power to the road and turns off the lights. Running just the lights might be what is heating the resistor. At least that is how I think it all works. I could be way off (well some would say I am "off" all the time anyway.... ) Others may chime in here and throw my ideas over the hedge Good luck, it looks like a fun item. Edited by user 09 January 2024 16:37:44(UTC) \| Reason: Not specified
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Jimmy Thompson		#4 Posted : 10 January 2024 17:42:33(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC) Posts: 613 Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City		What I am unsure of is how to introduce the effect of the AMS roadway and the track signal so that the lights can be used independently. I imagine there is some electrical wizardry which could be applied here.
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Ivan		#5 Posted : 10 January 2024 18:43:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/08/2018(UTC) Posts: 103 Location: Potsdam		Originally Posted by: Jimmy Thompson What I am unsure of is how to introduce the effect of the AMS roadway and the track signal so that the lights can be used independently. I imagine there is some electrical wizardry which could be applied here. Two gray sockets connections regulate the current on the roadway (switch on and off depending on the train passage). Only guessing; I have never had AMS car roadway and bought 648 out of curiosity for $ 3. It works; lights blink and the principle seems to be as follows: flat plate with coil heats up the bimetallic switch in the back which regulate current flow through the main coil under the screw. I contacted Faller technical support but they are not familiar with 648 made 60 years ago. Thanks.

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Jimmy Thompson		#6 Posted : 10 January 2024 21:03:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC) Posts: 613 Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City		Quote: Ivan wrote: "...but they are not familiar with 648 made 60 years ago.> I can only imagine the puzzled looks...
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Ivan		#7 Posted : 10 January 2024 22:38:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/08/2018(UTC) Posts: 103 Location: Potsdam		Originally Posted by: Jimmy Thompson Quote: Ivan wrote: "...but they are not familiar with 648 made 60 years ago.> I can only imagine the puzzled looks... That was before cheap electronic crap from China.

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Ivan		#8 Posted : 11 January 2024 12:28:30(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/08/2018(UTC) Posts: 103 Location: Potsdam		Out of curiosity I could not stop searching the construction of 648 relay. 1.It has a bimetallic thermal switch in the back; it gives blinking impulse to lights, church bells etc. via two orange connections. 2.Two gray sockets simply interrupt any closed electrical circuit, depending on the position of front brass levers in front; down position for blinking, upper position to close the circuit in gray sockets. They are meant to regulate power supply to AMS roadway which must have its own power supply, either with another transformer or the same transformer (yellow 16 V, brown ground). Most importantly, there must be considerable heat generated in flat horizontal coil to activate bimetallic switch. Curiously, Faller used different resistors; 75 Ohm or 82 Ohm. They did not mention this difference (less than 10%). The question remains whether lower resistance offers more power, increased heat and increased blinking rate. Thanks for your kind attention.

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JohnjeanB		#9 Posted : 11 January 2024 13:28:38(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC) Posts: 3,140 Location: Paris, France		Originally Posted by: Ivan Most importantly, there must be considerable heat generated in flat horizontal coil to activate bimetallic switch. Curiously, Faller used different resistors; 75 Ohm or 82 Ohm. They did not mention this difference (less than 10%). The question remains whether lower resistance offers more power, increased heat and increased blinking rate. Hi Ivan This Faller 648 relay was a great combination of a standard relay (to stop Faller AMS cars at a gateless level crossing) and a - then common item - bimetallic relay - to operate the blinking lights (2 of them, one for each direction). As you know bimetallic relais where using a sheet metal blade made of 2 metals with different temperature expansion factors with a contact at its extremity. Those contacts were normally open at room temperature but when heated (60° to 80°) because of a current in the resistor, the contact would close, allowing the relay to cool down (because the current was "shorted by the contact and not going though the embedded relay resistor. That was how, in those early days, we had blinking contacts or timed stops at stations for locomotives. The reliability of these was limited (not for intensive use). Cheers Jean
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Ivan		#10 Posted : 11 January 2024 14:13:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/08/2018(UTC) Posts: 103 Location: Potsdam		I had a strong feeling Jean would explain how it works. I like those old gadgets, repair them and use them occasionally. Besides, I am not a digital man: too old to start. Thanks Kindest regards

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