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Offline Paul59  
#1 Posted : 26 December 2023 21:12:49(UTC)
Paul59

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 190
Location: South East
Hello,

I have an NS1200 electric loco fitted with the LFCM. It has what looks like a 6090 decoder in it.
I run in analogue mode but this decoder had been installed by someone in a previous ownership.

The loco runs ok but seems a bit slow. It's not the motor bogging down as the motor runs fine by itself and also does not get too warm after a lengthy run.

Is this the decoder keeping a bit of voltage 'in hand' as it were in order to have a bit extra for the load regulation? I am making the assumption that load regulation works in analogue.

The decoder has two little potentiometers on it which set the max speed and acceleration/braking when in digital mode. Should these have any effect in analogue mode with this decoder?
I have other locos with the potentiometers on the decoder and they do make a difference in analogue - apart from the braking obviously.
I have tried altering them on this decoder and it doesn't seem to make any difference whatever position they are in.

I would ideally like to convert this loco back to original analogue but I don't have a spare reverser or field magnet.

Thanks for any information or comments.

IMG_0508.jpg
Marklin HO using M track. Now reverted to analogue as I find it has more character - and I understand it!
Offline Dave Banks  
#2 Posted : 27 December 2023 00:38:07(UTC)
Dave Banks

Australia   
Joined: 08/03/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,026
Location: Gold Coast, Australia.
From Kenneth Pallund :

The 6090 Digital Decoder:

The 6090 is märklin's old top decoder.

What you get is a permanent magnet and a new 5-pole rotor. The decoder itself has tiny

potentiometers which allows for adjustment of max/min speed and delayed acceleration/braking.

The decoder can also, use all 80 addresses. With the upgraded motor you have a very

powerful machine, which runs smoothly even at low speeds.

I suggest you tweak the potentiometers one at a time & one will give you slow to max speed & the other a quick or delayed stopping distance.
Let us know how you go. You really don't want to go back to analog.

https://wiki.3rail.nl/index.php/M%C3%A4rklin_6090_Decoder
D.A.Banks
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Dave Banks
Offline river6109  
#3 Posted : 27 December 2023 07:24:32(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,730
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Dave Banks Go to Quoted Post
From Kenneth Pallund :

The 6090 Digital Decoder:

The 6090 is märklin's old top decoder.

What you get is a permanent magnet and a new 5-pole rotor. The decoder itself has tiny

potentiometers which allows for adjustment of max/min speed and delayed acceleration/braking.

The decoder can also, use all 80 addresses. With the upgraded motor you have a very

powerful machine, which runs smoothly even at low speeds.

I suggest you tweak the potentiometers one at a time & one will give you slow to max speed & the other a quick or delayed stopping distance.
Let us know how you go. You really don't want to go back to analog.

https://wiki.3rail.nl/index.php/M%C3%A4rklin_6090_Decoder


Do you mean 60901 ? the 6090 was a decoder for DC motors

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline Paul59  
#4 Posted : 27 December 2023 09:22:03(UTC)
Paul59

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 190
Location: South East
Thanks for the replies Dave and John,

The motor does have a permanent magnet so I guess it is a 6090 decoder. I was just surprised that the max speed potentiometer doesn't alter the max speed in analogue mode whereas it does on a couple of other locos that I have with the same or similar decoder. Other than that the loco runs fine just slow.
I will try it on a bit of track with a digital controller as I suppose there could be something wrong with the decoder.

I tried a digital layout years ago and lost interest quite quickly - I prefer the 'classic feel' of the older analogue stuff.
Marklin HO using M track. Now reverted to analogue as I find it has more character - and I understand it!
Offline H0  
#5 Posted : 29 December 2023 14:50:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,268
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
Do you mean 60901 ? the 6090 was a decoder for DC motors
The 6090 was a decoder for the DC c90 motor and the 60901 decoder was the successor for the same motor, but with fx.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline mvd71  
#6 Posted : 29 December 2023 18:40:24(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,739
Location: Auckland,
The decoder you have was available as a 60902 (same decoder as in the 60901/903/904 kits)

It was designed to run with the 5 pole c90 motor, and you have it running with a large flat commutator with a Hamo magnet. I suspect this is the reason for the poor performance.

You have two options as I see it. 1. Restore to analogue with a replacement field magnet and reversing unit. Or 2. Upgrade the motor to a c90 with the 60944 motor kit.

If you do option 2 you will get much improved running with smooth acceleration etc, and it will perform well in analogue..

Cheers….

Mike
Offline Paul59  
#7 Posted : 29 December 2023 23:38:59(UTC)
Paul59

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 190
Location: South East
Thanks for all the replies.
Mike - I think you've hit the nail on the head there. If that decoder was designed to work with 5 pole motors that would explain the mismatch.

The loco would originally have been pure analogue. It came to me as you see in the picture. Looks like someone has done a quick digital job on it with what they had available at the time.

I do have a reverser circuit from a defunct Roco loco that was produced for the Marklin system. It simply provides a DC voltage for the motor and has a relay to reverse the polarity when it recieves the overvoltage pulse. That would probably work ok with the motor as it is.
However I'd prefer to keep it Marklin and ideally get it back to original. I think I'll keep an eye out for the appropriate AC field magnet and a standard Marklin reversing unit.
Marklin HO using M track. Now reverted to analogue as I find it has more character - and I understand it!
Offline mvd71  
#8 Posted : 30 December 2023 01:21:57(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,739
Location: Auckland,
I have a reversing unit, and I’d be happy to swap for the decoder, but I am in NZ, Aand the postage may be a bit high. I could check in the new year if you like?
Offline mvd71  
#9 Posted : 30 December 2023 01:22:59(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,739
Location: Auckland,
And I should have the correct field magnet for an ac motor.

Of course this may have been a hamo model originally……
Offline BenP  
#10 Posted : 30 December 2023 02:14:57(UTC)
BenP

United States   
Joined: 04/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 344
Location: Michigan, Ann Arbor
Originally Posted by: Paul59 Go to Quoted Post
Hello,

I have an NS1200 electric loco fitted with the LFCM. It has what looks like a 6090 decoder in it.
I run in analogue mode but this decoder had been installed by someone in a previous ownership.

The loco runs ok but seems a bit slow. It's not the motor bogging down as the motor runs fine by itself and also does not get too warm after a lengthy run.

Is this the decoder keeping a bit of voltage 'in hand' as it were in order to have a bit extra for the load regulation? I am making the assumption that load regulation works in analogue.

The decoder has two little potentiometers on it which set the max speed and acceleration/braking when in digital mode. Should these have any effect in analogue mode with this decoder?
I have other locos with the potentiometers on the decoder and they do make a difference in analogue - apart from the braking obviously.
I have tried altering them on this decoder and it doesn't seem to make any difference whatever position they are in.

I would ideally like to convert this loco back to original analogue but I don't have a spare reverser or field magnet.

Thanks for any information or comments.

IMG_0508.jpg


Put all dip switches to off and the 6090 functions are bypassed. That's how I run an old santa fe f7.
Digital M (+ some K) track layout with mostly vintage rolling stock and accessories, and small Z scale layout.
https://youtube.com/play...0kgVYbh0CeDTF-bYXoD_2-V9
Offline kiwiAlan  
#11 Posted : 30 December 2023 18:45:29(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,110
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Paul59 Go to Quoted Post

I do have a reverser circuit from a defunct Roco loco that was produced for the Marklin system. It simply provides a DC voltage for the motor and has a relay to reverse the polarity when it recieves the overvoltage pulse. That would probably work ok with the motor as it is.


I think you would find the performance would still be a bit disappointing. The HAMO magnets were not reknown for being strong magnets, and I've heard some people had quite disappointing results with them over the years.

Offline Paul59  
#12 Posted : 31 December 2023 09:29:35(UTC)
Paul59

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 190
Location: South East
MVD71 - that's good of you but, as you say, the postage each way would probably be more than the parts are worth. It's a small world these days but so far no one has told that to the Post Office!
I still keep a few digital locos just in case so this decoder will get used for its proper purpose. Thanks though.
I don't think this was originally a Hamo model as I have the box - that doesn't mean it's the original box though so it may have been.

Ben - this one seems to work in analogue whatever position the switches are in. I tried them all off and it didn't make any difference - still ran ok but still slow.
I think the older 6080 and delta decoders need all the switches to be off.

Alan - I also collect Hornby Dublo from the fifties so I am quite familiar with the symptoms of weak magnets. They are Alnico magnets and tend to lose a bit of strength if the motor is dismantled. I have a remagnetiser for servicing.
I hadn't heard that about Hamo magnets but if others have found it then it must be an issue sometimes. This one seems ok (at the moment!). The motor draws about 270mA which I think is ok. I think the ESU ones are Neo but I don't think the Hamo ones are. It's something to keep an eye on, thanks for the heads up.

Marklin HO using M track. Now reverted to analogue as I find it has more character - and I understand it!
Offline kiwiAlan  
#13 Posted : 31 December 2023 14:10:44(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,110
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Paul59 Go to Quoted Post

I think the older 6080 and delta decoders need all the switches to be off.


I think all 6080 decoders could auto-detect AC vs digital operation, and the earliest Delta decoders with the solder bridge address select certainly were, and were of the same era as the 6080. It was only later when there was a dispute over the patent for auto-detect that Marklin had to stop using it. They then put DIP switches on the Delta decoders, and I think it was only 6090 series decoders that then required all switches off for analogue operation.

Originally Posted by: Paul59 Go to Quoted Post

Alan - I also collect Hornby Dublo from the fifties so I am quite familiar with the symptoms of weak magnets.
...
I think the ESU ones are Neo but I don't think the Hamo ones are. It's something to keep an eye on, thanks for the heads up.



Yeah, the HAMO ones came out before rare earth magnets became mainstream. They were a quick way to keep the HAMO name going, and from the amount of HAMO locos that come up on ebay did seem to sell a reasonable number of locos.

If you have the ability to zap the magnets it may well be worth a try on the HAMO one.



thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline marklinist5999  
#14 Posted : 31 December 2023 15:57:32(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,153
Location: Michigan, Troy
I bought a Hamo croc used in 1992, took it home, and it began slowing down aftyer runniung about 10 minutes. It belonged to a termianlly ill docotr. My dealer fixed it N/C for me. He said he cleaned and lubed the commutator and it was 100%. No trouble since. I put a 5 pole armature in my Hamo SBB RE 460 and it runs like hell.
Is it possible if room in the loco body allows for, to piggyback another magnet onot the Hamo one?
Offline mvd71  
#15 Posted : 31 December 2023 21:10:30(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,739
Location: Auckland,
First generation 6080 did not auto detect, but second generation did.
Offline mvd71  
#16 Posted : 31 December 2023 21:12:02(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,739
Location: Auckland,
If you keep some digital locos, then I would suggest getting the correct motor for the decoder, then it will work well in both analogue and digital.
Offline Paul59  
#17 Posted : 01 January 2024 11:02:44(UTC)
Paul59

United Kingdom   
Joined: 25/08/2012(UTC)
Posts: 190
Location: South East
MVD71 - yes that's a good option. However I like to keep the lfcm motors pure analogue as they have such a lovely 'floaty' operation when not encombered by a permanent magnet.
If it were a dcm then I would definately do as you suggested since I have a few 5 pole dcm high efficiency motors and magnets knocking around.

I have put the Roco reverser in now and it works well. The loco now runs at a speed more in keeping with the other locos.
At some point I'll put in a wound field magnet and Marklin reverser but I don't have to rush to find the bits.

Hope you have a good new year.
Marklin HO using M track. Now reverted to analogue as I find it has more character - and I understand it!
Offline mvd71  
#18 Posted : 01 January 2024 19:41:25(UTC)
mvd71

New Zealand   
Joined: 09/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,739
Location: Auckland,
Sounds like a good result then :-)
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