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Confused BR E19 - ... that does not remember which end is front and which end is rear.
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Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#1 Posted : 05 December 2023 22:14:20(UTC)
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Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 398
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
I have a Märklin 3769 Elektrische Lokomotive BR E19 der DRG that has developed an irritating issue: after power-up, it invariably has swapped the forward and backward directions. So, when Rocrail tells it to move, it will go to the opposite direction. The confusion extends to my MS2 as well: when the MS2 display indicates that the locomotive should move backwards, it will move forward.

What seems to reset the issue is to use an analog transformer to reverse the direction: after an analog reversing pulse the locomotive comes back to its senses.

I wonder if others have experienced this sort of a problem, and if they have found a solution?
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
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Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 05 December 2023 22:16:56(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
The default direction for this loco is cab 2 (or cab H) forward. After long periods without power it will run that way.
Do you want to run it with cab 1 forward? That'll cause problems with the old pre-fx decoder of that loco.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#3 Posted : 05 December 2023 23:02:00(UTC)
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Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 398
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Right now MS2 considers the cab H to face backwards, and indeed the locomotive agrees. Rocrail is of the opposite view and sends the loco to the wrong direction. I can tell Rocrail to invert the orientation, or tell it that the locomotive has been turned around ("swap block enter side") to fix things for this run, but at next power-up the confusion will likely reappear.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 05 December 2023 23:24:25(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Those old decoders do not support absolute direction. If you take the loco off the track and reverse on the MS2, then the MS2 will have cab H leading in forward direction. And it should stay this way after a power up.

But warning: It'll get out of sync again if you reverse it while the loco is in a dead section.

You can install a decoder that supports direction information from the controller to ease the confusion a bit.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Martti Mäntylä  
#5 Posted : 05 December 2023 23:29:03(UTC)
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Martti Mäntylä

Finland   
Joined: 15/11/2018(UTC)
Posts: 398
Location: Uusimaa, Helsinki
Thanks Tom, this sounds reasonable. I will test this method at the next run.
- Martti M.
Era III analog & digital (Rocrail, CAN Digital Bahn, Gleisbox/MS2, K83/K84), C & M tracks, some Spur 1
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#6 Posted : 07 December 2023 08:40:07(UTC)
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kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi
Have been having a related problem.
I have a CS 3+, the direction of loco running seems to be random.
This happens to any of my locos, they are all post 2005, most are MFX or MFX+:
I stop the loco and then use my mouse to change direction on the control screen (circular speedometer).
When I increase speed from stop it goes in the same direction again.
???
If I click change direction a second time, it works fine.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 07 December 2023 10:19:11(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Have been having a related problem.
An unrelated problem. A feature, not a bug.

Modern decoders have a wrong direction bit.
If the loco decoder thinks that "reverse" is correct but the controller sends "forward", the decoder will carry on in reverse, but will set the wrong direction bit.
When the controller sends a reverse command, the wrong direction bit will be cleared and the decoder will now use the direction sent by the controller. Loco still drives in reverse.
When the controller reverses again, loco will drive forward.

How do you get there?
Maybe the loco was driving in reverse when you shutdown the layout and loco remembers the direction. Now controller reset the direction to forward, but loco is in reverse and sets the wrong direction bit.

Support for wrong direction can usually be disabled in the decoder.
But when active, it is a feature, not a bug.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#8 Posted : 08 December 2023 05:42:54(UTC)
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kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
......

How do you get there?
Maybe the loco was driving in reverse when you shutdown the layout and loco remembers the direction. Now controller reset the direction to forward, but loco is in reverse and sets the wrong direction bit.

Support for wrong direction can usually be disabled in the decoder.
But when active, it is a feature, not a bug.


OK Tom thanks for the feature explanation.
Loco remembering last direction sounds feasible.

I think to be of real use, that feature would need to be implemented for ALL locos with ALL of them matching the travel direction.

Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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