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heinrichhess		#1 Posted : 25 August 2023 14:19:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 214 Location: Wales, powys		been watching you tube people are telling e to wire every peace of track to the power supply i have wired every six feet they are using 12v dc on 2 rail but even so it seam excessive mins2.56sec or I'm watching this wrong hess
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Jimmy Thompson		#2 Posted : 25 August 2023 16:23:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 26/03/2019(UTC) Posts: 621 Location: Florida Classic but Successful Swampland City		Well Hess, While I am still in analogue mode with M-Track, I am, as usual open to correction, however, as I recall 6' is the recommended linear stretch for power. HOWEVER! This is all dependent upon: How many trains are you running at any one time (I am only running one - ultra-small layout) Are there additional features - turntables/transfer tables, multiple points, multiple isolated sidings, full signals, etc., etc. I also suspect that with full-on DCC, there may be other reasons to have more power lines...of that I am not privy to the requirements. (noting that the vid references DCC running) One key I have heard is: "If the lok slows down at any point (not owing to track/wheel cleanliness, or other random problems) then add in an extra power point source." Just my 2'penw'rth
		Jimmy T Analogue; M-track; BR 111; KLVM; Primex; Sarrasani Zirkuswelt There is a Prototype For Everything
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David Dewar		#3 Posted : 25 August 2023 16:46:55(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 01/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 7,346 Location: Scotland		My layout is 24 feet by 4 feet and has only 4 tracks wired at various points. Everything runs fine. Maximum of 4 trains at a time run and I have never had any problems. The track is cleaned once per month. Wiring every C track would in my view be stupid. Every 6 feet is OK but might not even be required. Also important to clean sliders and loco and coach wheels.
		Take care I like Marklin and will defend the worlds greatest model rail manufacturer.
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ccranium		#4 Posted : 25 August 2023 18:45:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 79 Location: Seattle area		I'm running analog M- track and have put a feeder every 6 feet. Until I got them all connected to a bus, the areas farthest from the single feeder had very slow running, as did the 2% inclines. Once all the feeders were connected, it all runs MUCH better even though the inclines run a little slower going up and a little faster going down, as expected. I'm also setting up working catenary and have feeders for that every 3 feet due to the smaller contact point between the pantos and the Marklin wires. Same before and after results as with the puko feeders. Clean rails, sliders and wheels on all rolling stock have made a huge difference also. Good luck!
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hxmiesa		#5 Posted : 25 August 2023 18:55:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,521 Location: Spain		I do it every 2 meters (approx. 6 feet?!). I´m using K-track, and solder the tracks together in 2 meter segments, with the power (red wire) going into the middle. The brown wire is soldered to the tracks where the 2 meter segments are joined, so its kind of a "staggered" feed. This gives smooth running on all paradestrecken and stations. In some hidden areas and shadow-stations I have greater distances, but that is a mistake! Don´t go over 2 meters.
		Best regards Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain") http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
		WWW
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dickinsonj		#6 Posted : 26 August 2023 01:27:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC) Posts: 1,691 Location: Crozet, Virginia		I started out with minimal connections to my circuits and I had a lot of issues with my CS2 and CS3. I looked at various causes but wise counsel here pointed me toward better connectivity between my power bus and my track. I upgraded to no more than 2 meters for power bus connectors and it all works perfectly now. You could lose data on long runs without this redundancy. I actually base mine on how many C Track connectors I have, because their resistance is what causes issues. So in sections made up of many small track sections and turnouts I make connections closer than 2 meters. Before you can perfect your layout, you have to lay the proper foundation.
		Regards, Jim I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains! So many trains and so little time.
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Michael4		#7 Posted : 26 August 2023 09:51:09(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/02/2017(UTC) Posts: 643 Location: England, South Coast		Catenary appears to have a far better connectivity than old M track. On my layout (M track) the catenary has far fewer feeders and shows much less off a drop off at distance.
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Goofy		#8 Posted : 26 August 2023 11:14:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,026		I feed my layout every second metres and i use 0,25 mm square wires to connect the tracks. The base unit of the feeder wire under the layout are 0,75 mm square from the digital system divided up.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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hxmiesa		#9 Posted : 26 August 2023 20:34:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,521 Location: Spain		Wow. Everybody seems to agree about 2 meters. The whole world agreeing on something for a change?!
		Best regards Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain") http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
		WWW
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heinrichhess		#10 Posted : 28 August 2023 16:45:46(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 214 Location: Wales, powys		THANKS ALL grate advice 6 feet 1 moor question how often do you earth the track hess
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Goofy		#11 Posted : 29 August 2023 05:38:34(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,026		Originally Posted by: heinrichhess THANKS ALL grate advice 6 feet 1 moor question how often do you earth the track hess You connect the ground every second metres like the power feeder.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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heinrichhess		#12 Posted : 29 August 2023 16:28:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 214 Location: Wales, powys		That's far to many I'm thinking every level hess
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H0		#13 Posted : 29 August 2023 16:39:32(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,274 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: heinrichhess That's far to many I'm thinking every level The current through the red wire is the same as the current through the brown wire. It makes little sense to have 10 feeders for red, but only 1 feeder for brown. Do as you please, but practical experience might prove your assumptions wrong.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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PMPeter		#14 Posted : 29 August 2023 17:49:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC) Posts: 1,275 Location: Port Moody, BC		Originally Posted by: heinrichhess That's far to many I'm thinking every level hess You need to treat every 2 m power feed as a new power feed, which means both red and brown wires. Adding only the red wire makes no sense, since as Tom pointed out, the current flowing through the red wire is the same as the current flowing through the brown wire. So if you add only a red wire the current flowing in that wire will need to return through the nearest brown wire however far away it is, thus eliminating the benefit of adding a power feed every 2 m.
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hxmiesa		#15 Posted : 30 August 2023 10:19:21(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,521 Location: Spain		Originally Posted by: heinrichhess That's far to many I'm thinking every level Once every level is fine, for the My Wolrd trains!
		Best regards Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain") http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
		WWW
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heinrichhess		#16 Posted : 30 August 2023 23:40:16(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 214 Location: Wales, powys		the current current through the red is power witch has a tendency to drop on steal 3rd (single rail) the negative is flowing current back and runs down (2 rails) and in my case metal m track base so i have to disagree with and suggest a lot less brown wires hess
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Mark5		#17 Posted : 31 August 2023 05:18:47(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC) Posts: 1,420 Location: Montreal, Canada		While I do always have a return brown on each feeder, I did think about the M-track question when I first started reading this thread, and its strong "brown" return through the metal of the track, and I can see your point. However, even that "ground/brown" can have broken/weak track connections along some distances and there is resistance build up at connection points. That said, it would be interesting to try a few experiments and see what kind of resistance might build up along your set up when using less brown return wires. Even still, at some point, you may have only one or two small brown wires that create a narrowing choke point for the return of the circuit, so anytime you have more brown "feeder" wires you are certainly going to have an easier time of flow. The question really boils down to the same, how many do you need, when and where. Trying and seeing with a multimeter is best. Then use what works best for you. Originally Posted by: heinrichhess the current current through the red is power witch has a tendency to drop on steal 3rd (single rail) the negative is flowing current back and runs down (2 rails) and in my case metal m track base so i have to disagree with and suggest a lot less brown wires hess
		DB DR FS NS SNCF c. 1950-65, fan of station architecture esp. from 1920-70. In single point perspective, where do track lines meet?
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Goofy		#18 Posted : 31 August 2023 07:08:02(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,026		Originally Posted by: heinrichhess the current current through the red is power witch has a tendency to drop on steal 3rd (single rail) the negative is flowing current back and runs down (2 rails) and in my case metal m track base so i have to disagree with and suggest a lot less brown wires hess In fact NO!! The current flow must be balance between + and - so it is important that the rail do have contact like the stud contact.
		H0 DCC = Digital Command Control
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H0		#19 Posted : 31 August 2023 08:44:39(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,274 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: heinrichhess the current current through the red is power witch has a tendency to drop on steal 3rd (single rail) the negative is flowing current back and runs down (2 rails) and in my case metal m track base so i have to disagree with and suggest a lot less brown wires It is important to have a low resistance at any point in order to have overload protection trigger quickly if a train derails. A CS2 or CS3 can provide 100 watts permanently. If a derailed train causes a short circuit, but track resistance limits the current to about 90 watts, then the CS will not switch off. Suppose this happens on a turnout in a tunnel: when you smell the problem, the loco will be FUBAR and the turnout will be FUBAR and the damage can easily be somewhere between €200 and €800. So while a floor layout may work fine with just one feeder every 15 metres, it cannot harm to spend some extra brown wires when building a permanent layout, especially if there are tunnels and some sort of automatic operation.
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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heinrichhess		#20 Posted : 31 August 2023 11:45:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 214 Location: Wales, powys		taking every body's input into account and the fact that there are 2 rail's attached to brown I will be installing brown wires every 12feet except where contract track and switches are used then I will install moor hess
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Goofy		#21 Posted : 31 August 2023 18:29:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,026		Originally Posted by: heinrichhess taking every body's input into account and the fact that there are 2 rail's attached to brown I will be installing brown wires every 12feet except where contract track and switches are used then I will install moor hess 12 feet?? That equal 3,65 metres! Märklin do recommended train members to install power feeder every second metres and i believe it´s good fair. When i was kid i used analog power with blue trafo and did only connect once power feed to my layout at 2 x 1 metres. It was a mistake for me and i should have feed another more wires. I did noticed better contact on the track where the wires was connect while other side of the layout it was porr contact which i could see some lack of the speed for the locomotive and wagons with the light flickering a lot! Even it was ac power it did happen sometimes. It depends 4-16 VAC. Edited by user 31 August 2023 23:08:16(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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ccranium		#22 Posted : 31 August 2023 18:57:45(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 79 Location: Seattle area		It's an AC circuit so the current is flowing back and forth equally at 60Hz (in the US anyway) through both the red and brown connections to the trafo. If the resistance is greater in one side of the current path then the current and voltage will be lower as a whole. Having the same number of connections for red and brown (3rd rail and "earth") will equalize the circuit's resistance and make it the most consistent. Granted, this doesn't take slider-to-puko and wheel-to-rail contact and resistance into account; it's just a rough approximation to take wiring resistance out of the equation. The same would be true for DC except the current flow is one direction.
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heinrichhess		#23 Posted : 31 August 2023 23:23:03(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 214 Location: Wales, powys		not true you have got 2 rails content to - and 1 rail contend to + power and then 6 feet intervals connected to +and 12 feet is connected - witch makes the system equal hess
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ccranium		#24 Posted : 01 September 2023 00:06:28(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 30/11/2011(UTC) Posts: 79 Location: Seattle area		Hi Hess, The outer rails still need to be connected to the B terminal of the trafo by the feeder tracks' wires, regardless of how well the rails are connected to each other. The wires to and from the trafo to the feeder tracks are like funnels for the current. No matter how much capacity exists for current to flow on the tracks, it is constricted by both wires from the feeder tracks back to the trafo. If the O and B wires are of the same gauge and length, then they provide the same resistance to current. If one of them is made larger, either by using a larger gauge or adding an additional wire, the circuit will still be constrained by the other wire unless it is also enlarged or duplicated.
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heinrichhess		#25 Posted : 01 September 2023 00:43:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 20/05/2023(UTC) Posts: 214 Location: Wales, powys		I'm going to check OHNE to find out for Shure hess
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Mille		#26 Posted : 05 September 2023 07:43:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 02/02/2023(UTC) Posts: 64 Location: Stockholm		Ok red power wire every two meters but how often the brown wire (earth)
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torhb		#27 Posted : 05 September 2023 08:52:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2001(UTC) Posts: 41 Location: Oppegård,		Originally Posted by: Mille Ok red power wire every two meters but how often the brown wire (earth) Red AND brown wires every 2 meters! Regards Tor Harald Bøhler
		Tor Harald Bøhler Oppegård, Norway
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H0		#28 Posted : 05 September 2023 09:39:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC) Posts: 15,274 Location: DE-NW		Originally Posted by: Mille Ok red power wire every two meters but how often the brown wire (earth) You are the king in your country. Märklin recommends feeder tracks every 1.5 m, even shorter in areas with special demands. And AIUI they mean both wires. Märklin also warns about increasing resistance of aging tracks. See also (German text): https://www.maerklin.de/...g_Ring-_Sternleitung.pdf
		Regards Tom --- "In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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