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Offline robertrt  
#1 Posted : 28 February 2006 01:48:28(UTC)
robertrt


Joined: 04/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 120
Location: Boca Raton, FL
I have searched the forum for this answer with negetive results. Sorry if this has been answered before. How do I wire a separate trafo to my digitally controlled switches? I will be using a CS. I will also be powering the 76xxx signals with this same trafo unless advised not to. Thanks for your helpconfusedconfusedconfused
Robert J P
Offline aj1201  
#2 Posted : 28 February 2006 02:44:34(UTC)
aj1201


Joined: 15/10/2005(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: westwood, New Jersey
The only thing on the switches that need a seperate transformer is the light. Signals not sure havent gotten that far yet.
Offline xxup  
#3 Posted : 28 February 2006 09:02:32(UTC)
xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,473
Location: Australia
You need a booster to feed the 76xxx from a seperate transformer... Likewise the decoder for the switches must be fed by a booster (6017 or whatever is used by the CS), but it does depend on the decoder that you are using - the under track ones should be on the same boosted circuit as the track itself, but the external decoders (eg Viessmann 5211s) do not..
Adrian
UserPostedImage
Australia flag by abFlags.com
Offline dikken  
#4 Posted : 28 February 2006 21:20:24(UTC)
dikken


Joined: 22/10/2003(UTC)
Posts: 376
Location: blankenberge,
If U use litfinski or certain viesmann decoders, it is possible to connect a seperated powersupply to operate the solenoïds of the switches. In this case you only need a digital signal from your booster/CU and the additional power is being served by the extra trafo.
Dikken

Check out my site:
http://www.modelspoorhobby.be
Offline aj1201  
#5 Posted : 28 February 2006 23:21:30(UTC)
aj1201


Joined: 15/10/2005(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: westwood, New Jersey
I am no expert but if you use under c track decoders they plug right into the track. I hooked up a CS about a month or so ago and i have around 30 switches, i have no problem with them at all with 5 locs going with sound lights and so on. I dont see anywhere in the instructions telling you to use a seperate power supply. The only thing i have done is run a couple of feeds to the track at 3 different points. I even use 2 decoders at a time with cross overs which i do beleive they tell you not to do. I dont know for the K-83 but i beleive its the same. I dont even think the booster for CS is even avaliable yet. C track and K track do have a little different requirements the C track has much less loss threw the track. When i asked my dealer about a booster he told me dont beleive everything you read, with C track you wont need one anytime soon when you see a problem then ask me again. He was right and honest. My advice follow the instructions and just try it before you buy anything.
Offline rschaffr  
#6 Posted : 01 March 2006 00:38:38(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
aj1201: It has nothing to do with the type of track, but the number of devices (engines, lights, turnouts, turnout lanterns, etc) drawing on the trafo. You will know when you reach the limit. On the other hand, the connection reliability of C-track probably requires fewer feeds to the track from your power source for that segment.

I prefer to use the Viessmann decoders for my turnouts and power them from a separate transformer to reduce the number of current/voltage transients on the track.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline robertrt  
#7 Posted : 01 March 2006 01:23:26(UTC)
robertrt


Joined: 04/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 120
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by aj1201
<br />I am no expert but if you use under c track decoders they plug right into the track. I hooked up a CS about a month or so ago and i have around 30 switches, i have no problem with them at all with 5 locs going with sound lights and so on. I dont see anywhere in the instructions telling you to use a seperate power supply. The only thing i have done is run a couple of feeds to the track at 3 different points. I even use 2 decoders at a time with cross overs which i do beleive they tell you not to do. I dont know for the K-83 but i beleive its the same. I dont even think the booster for CS is even avaliable yet. C track and K track do have a little different requirements the C track has much less loss threw the track. When i asked my dealer about a booster he told me dont beleive everything you read, with C track you wont need one anytime soon when you see a problem then ask me again. He was right and honest. My advice follow the instructions and just try it before you buy anything.


Thanks for that info. I will procede with the CS. What size trafo are you using?CoolCoolCool
Robert J P
Offline Hoffmann  
#8 Posted : 01 March 2006 01:38:03(UTC)
Hoffmann

Canada   
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,106
Location: Guelph, Ontario

Hello Robert,

The most Powerfull Transformer from Marklin is at present the # 6001 42 VA (U.S. and Canada).
Marklin Inc. will have the # 60012 60 VA Transformer by the end of March there is also a 32 VA in the larger Start-Sets with the Mobil Station comming soon ( 2nd and 3rd quarter ) however no Part # as of today.
You can allways use a # 6646 32 VA regular Transformer from the budget priced Start-sets (not digital) all you need is to hook up to Yellow/brown on the Transformer.

Martin
marklin-eh
Offline aj1201  
#9 Posted : 01 March 2006 02:05:58(UTC)
aj1201


Joined: 15/10/2005(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: westwood, New Jersey
Your welcome for now i have the 42va from the starter set which will be upgraded. By the way i also have a mobile station hooked to this. In the beginning i thought for decoders i would need a booster right away thats how i got to a cs because you cant put a booster on ms. Its a little confusing at first so i took the advice of my dealer dont buy try, when you start having problems then we will talk about what you need.This was good advice so i thought id pass it on.I am possitive that at sometime i will need a booster but for now everything works fine and i saved some money for other things. The lanterns are seperate power supply just as all other lights,i dont know why that came up, and yes you can go with other decoders (viessman)i havent tried so dont know thats why i only mentioned the under track decoder. If you stick with marklin you may want to look into the k83 i think it is cheaper in the long run and if it fails you dont have to rip the track up, i didn't know about the k83 when i first started purchasing decoders. Don't do what i did and beat your head against the wall worrying about what you need,proceed slow and have fun.
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by robertrt
<br />
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by aj1201
<br />I am no expert but if you use under c track decoders they plug right into the track. I hooked up a CS about a month or so ago and i have around 30 switches, i have no problem with them at all with 5 locs going with sound lights and so on. I dont see anywhere in the instructions telling you to use a seperate power supply. The only thing i have done is run a couple of feeds to the track at 3 different points. I even use 2 decoders at a time with cross overs which i do beleive they tell you not to do. I dont know for the K-83 but i beleive its the same. I dont even think the booster for CS is even avaliable yet. C track and K track do have a little different requirements the C track has much less loss threw the track. When i asked my dealer about a booster he told me dont beleive everything you read, with C track you wont need one anytime soon when you see a problem then ask me again. He was right and honest. My advice follow the instructions and just try it before you buy anything.


Thanks for that info. I will procede with the CS. What size trafo are you using?CoolCoolCool
Offline aj1201  
#10 Posted : 01 March 2006 02:33:21(UTC)
aj1201


Joined: 15/10/2005(UTC)
Posts: 91
Location: westwood, New Jersey
Oh let me give you a quick tip which i learned on this forum and it saved me some frustration. If you hook up a switch and it's not working don't freak and don't think you need that booster yet, the motor needs to be very tight but you need to be careful not to strip the plastic.
Offline rschaffr  
#11 Posted : 01 March 2006 03:27:17(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
All well and good, Alfred, but if you are doing a permanent layout like mine, if you find out that you need to segment it and install boosters after it is done it is too late and you have major work ahead of you. I opted to overkill and avoid any possible problems. I currently am running six separate booster zones on my layout (one solely for switches and signals) and will be adding another with my expansion. It's entirely up to you, but I'd rather design than react. For example, I have one booster zone for my station alone which could have five loks in it, the absolute maximum I consider safe.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline robertrt  
#12 Posted : 01 March 2006 05:33:42(UTC)
robertrt


Joined: 04/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 120
Location: Boca Raton, FL
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by rschaffr
<br />All well and good, Alfred, but if you are doing a permanent layout like mine, if you find out that you need to segment it and install boosters after it is done it is too late and you have major work ahead of you. I opted to overkill and avoid any possible problems. I currently am running six separate booster zones on my layout (one solely for switches and signals) and will be adding another with my expansion. It's entirely up to you, but I'd rather design than react. For example, I have one booster zone for my station alone which could have five loks in it, the absolute maximum I consider safe.


I agree with your plan. I would like to have two boosters for the double main line, one for the staging area, and one for the signals and switches. I have 37 switches on a 12 by 19 triple level layout.
Would it be possible to illustrate how you wired your layout? If this is too time consuming for the forum, is there a book to illustrate this? I prefer to anticipate future addtions to the layout.Check "track plans" in the forum under robertrt to see my layout. Thanks for all you comments, they are all welcomed.CoolCoolCool
Robert J P
Offline McLae  
#13 Posted : 01 March 2006 05:57:42(UTC)
McLae


Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX
The best thing is to plan for the worst at the start. Break your track power into as many blocks as you feel comfortable doing, but as many as possible. Connect all to the same main feeder. Then, if you need boosters later, you can switch some blocks to one or more boosters without taking everything apart.wink

I have about 21 blocks on my layout right now. All are connected to the same red wire (from my IB). As I install signals, power use dectors, and catenary on a booster, I can just move a wire from here to there and done!Cool

Note: Marklin sells spade connectors #74995. Very easy to make your own connector wires with a pair of pliers or a soldering iron. 0.18$ vs 1.80$.biggrin
The McLae
IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V
Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
Offline rschaffr  
#14 Posted : 01 March 2006 06:07:21(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Robert: Not really a trivial task, but it would be worth doing for me to document it for myself. I will work on it. It is somewhat embarrassing, but I have forgotten where some of the isolation points are (the layout has grown over the last three years and I have not been as good at documenting as I should have been since I was anxious to get a contiguous loop operating initilally). I will post my results when I finish. Generally, I have one for my Hbf and it's environs, one for the helix, one for the "west river" (two upper levels), one for the storage yard and marshalling yard, and one for my "temporary" extension. The sixth runs my turnouts and signals. All are posered from a 10 outlet power supply I built.
[image]http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/images/pwrsply.jpg[/image]
See my site at http://www.sem-co.com/~r...rains/era_iv/era_iv.html for this to make sense to you. For your info, I have three LDT boosters, and three 6604 delta controllers in service. My IB just provides a signal source and powers my programming track.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
Offline rschaffr  
#15 Posted : 01 March 2006 06:13:28(UTC)
rschaffr

United States   
Joined: 03/01/2003(UTC)
Posts: 5,180
Location: Southern New Jersey, USA
Good advice, McLae. That is what I have done on my era III layout. It serves two purposes...providing multiple connections while using one zone, and makes splitting them easy.
-Ron
Digital, Epoch IV-V(K-track/CS3/6021Connect/60216051), Epoch III(C-track/6021/6036/6051)
http://www.sem-co.com/~rschaffr/trains/trains.html
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