I use Rocrail and in your example I would use 2 sensors. I suppose if you add the 3rd sensor you might get better speed control if this is a station track.

Hello PMPeter, Lasse,

Thank you for your responses!

When it comes to the program software I’m not sure which one I’ll choose? I was leaning towards RR&CO's Train-controller but will try out the others before I decide. Rocrail and Itrain seem interesting and also JMRI is an other possibility but for now l'll play with the shuttle train feature from the ECoS.

Sounding like Märklin: Adding the extra sensors is child’s play with Märklin's C track. Even though my C track layout is screwed in place. The nice thing is it's just a handful of screws to lift up the track then add the insulators, drill a hole and add the feeder wires for detection. Can't be any easier!

Regards

Michel

false

Hi Dale

I would like to know what is false with the comments of this thread

Thewolf

As per what Dale and Fabrice have said, perhaps I can simplify. This is based on my experience with Rocrail.

2 sensors, one at the start and one at the end. A 3rd sensor can be used in the middle if you have shorter trains and want them to stop earlier, for example in the middle of the station platform.

It will work best on your layout if you can use the same length/distance for your 2 sensors, so that your stopping distance will work everywhere once the loco is setup correctly.

Also as per Fabrice's comment, you want a sensor to trigger events. For example, in front of a tunnel so that it can be used to trigger the whistle/horn sound as the train enters.

Hi Michael,

If you opt for Traincontroller you can use multiple stop and brake markers and make them conditional of your various schedule.

So e.g. with a short railcar running on a schedule you can get the railcar to stop in the middle of the platform by assigning one particular brake and stop marker. While a long express train will use another set.

Note this is only possible in silver and gold version.

Regarding occupancy/detection. I normally use isolated contact sections of a track length between 7-20 cm. Note in Traincontroller you can build in delays on each contact sensor to avoid flickering (e.g. turn off sensor only after 2s).

Best Regards
Lasse

Hi Michel,

I suggest not to use switches (also called circuit track) for feedback detection.

If using Marklin C track the most reliable (and cheapest) option is to make your own occupancy track section by isolating the outer rail and use your Ecosdetector as a S88 feedback module.

This is also the recommended option mentioned in recent Marklin Magazine for optimal reliability.

Best Regards
Lasse

You should have at least 2 detections per block. If using Rocrail for example you would have one to indicate that the loco has entered the block and one to indicate that the loco is fully in. Having the whole block as one detection will lead to various stopping locations for each train and most likely situations where the rest of your train is not in the block.

So is it right to say, you should have at least 4 detections per block for bidirectional train travel?

I believe the answer is no. The right answer is 2 detectors(sensors) for a block.

Since I started reading the Step-by-Step Tutorial for Rocrail I’m understanding the difference in the programs. For now I will let RR&CO Traincontroller gather some dust.....

Now for the small print. Comparing two programs at once got me very confused!!!! I should have picked one and gone from there. Now that I picked Rocrail I’m sorry for asking for help while if I had read more in Rocrail I would have found my answers.

I'm not sure all of the commercial versions have such short trial periods. The free trial versions of both WinDigipet and Train Controller have pretty good trial versions to work with.

Perhaps they have changed to something more reassonable. I tried Train Controller approx. 5 years ago and all I ever got was 5 min. of operation at a time. It really was useless for evaluation purposes. I also tried another one at the time and I got 10 min of operation out of it before it too would quit functioning. So again, relatively useless as a trial. So I settled on Rocrail.

Peter

Rocrail does not require a specific contact to trigger an action - you can use all sorts of other triggers with timers etc.

However using a contact for an action allows precise timing and this is a universal truth regardless of software because without knowing where a train exactly is (contact track) then you cannot be as precise as using other methods.

Good morning,

I thought that I would update my progress on my layout.

Instead of being idle I have started to rewire my layout and I have completed about sixty percent so far!

I have made changes that will complement most scenario's for TrainController or Rocrail. Because of these choices I have decided to install three occupancy sensors per block. Depending on which program I use I can easily jumper the three sensors in a block into one sensor for a block as the requirement for TrainController dictates. More on that later on another post.

My layout has a double track mainline which is over 40 feet long (12 metres). I have divided the double track mainline blocks between stations and industries into 9 feet (2.75 metre) sections. This way I can have trains waiting in blocks, depending of the traffic density. Each line is bi-directional and I have a plan in place to add more crossover turnouts to route train traffic. Again more on that later.

The one point I would like to make is that by utilizing Märklin's C track program these changes are easily obtainable. Never had I thought that this was going to be an enjoyable endeavour as it is! So easy to accomplish that I have no fears of making changes on my layout. It's all about having fun and that's what this hobby's all about!

Regards.

Edited by user 04 May 2019 20:30:18(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Hello Lasse,

I value you input and help so here is what I have found out.

From what I was told TrainController only needs one detector per block. This information was given to me by a TrainController Gold user by telephone and his advice I take personally, ”For a block only one occupancy detector Michel!”

So now I know if I decide to purchase TrainController this is the correct way of detecting.

If not then I have wired in enough detectors for Rocrail.

Either way until I download the software and try it, I'm doing the best I can for now.

Regards,

Michel

I agree with Danlake, there must be some kind of misunderstanding on TrainController. This is my current view on indicators and TrainController:

(1) No physical indicators in block: I have tested it, and it works. Here, the virtual indicators in the block actually refer to indicators in other blocks, e.g. ”indicate when train passes 200 cm by indicator X, heading right direction”. However, this will not work if the train has to stop in the previous block... Very well calibrated engines are required.

(2) One physical indicator in block: Here you use the indicator as reference for brake and stop markers, in both directions. I also have a long double-track mainline. It’s approx, 20 meters, divided into 7 blocks per track, most of them have only one physical indicator. As my standard train length is 150 cm, and the track is one-directional, this works very well. TrainController Gold can still manage longer trains, as it will calculate the number of previous blocks - and routes between them - that needs to stay reserved. Well calibrated engines are required.

(3) Two physical indicators in block: This is my standard setup for shorter blocks. The indicators are approx. 20 cm long, at each the end of the block, having non detected tracks in between. The indicators are used as brake and stop markers, depending on direction. Calibrated engines are still preferred, as you want the brake ramp to look nuce. If I want short trains, like railcars, to stop in the middle of the block/platform, I use the brake indicator as reference for a specific stop marker for short trains. For this, well calibrated engines are required.

(4) Three or more physical indicators in block: Derives even more possibilities for exact brake and stop, and less need for engine calibration. But you still need calibration, if you want the brake ramp to look nice... Additional indicators could also be beneficial for controlling train operations, like lights and sound, or controlling a crossing gate.

(5) The whole block detected with one or several physical detectors: If using a good software package, the only contribution is detecting lost cars.

(6) All tracks including routes and turnouts detected with several physical detectors: As bullet 5.

I agree with the others that more than one detection area inside a block is just fine in Train Controller.
With TC what you can do is it can do good things with just 1 detection zone in a block. The others are virtual (they use time-distance computation and the speed profile of the loco to estimate the position of the loco). But with more physical detection zones you always get more precise detection, especially if a block is long.
With TC it works just fine with only 1, that is only one is needed. But with more you get better results.