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Offline PMPeter  
#1 Posted : 07 August 2017 16:31:08(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,275
Location: Port Moody, BC
I recently acquired a Roco AC Railjet camera locomotive that operates perfectly in the reverse direction, but derails frequently at switches when operating in the forward direction. I checked the wheel spacing and in the forward direction the wheels were adjusted to the DC spacing of approx. 14.3 mm (using the Fohrmann gauge). I adjusted the wheels to 13.8 mm and that solved most of the problems except for the double slip switches. On these it derails approx. 50% of the time. In the forward direction the first wheels are on the slider boggie and are also the traction tire wheels. I have also checked the slider to confirm that it is straight.

What else can I check? Are the Roco wheel flanges the problem when operating on K track?

Cheers
Peter
Offline river6109  
#2 Posted : 07 August 2017 19:00:24(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,747
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
adjusting the Wheels with an AC loco ? is it written anywhere this is what you have to do, I have many DC and AC locos from Roco and never experienced this before. what type of double switches are we talking about the early or later ones ? has the slider been changed ? is it a silent slider ? is the slider sitting in the groove properly ? just let it run very slowly and watch what happens with the wheels and slider when you go over the turnout.

good luck

regards,

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline PMPeter  
#3 Posted : 07 August 2017 19:36:39(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,275
Location: Port Moody, BC
Yes there are numerous threads even in this forum to make sure that the spacing between flanges for Marklin is 13.8-13.9 mm compared to the standard DC spacing of 14.3 mm. On this loco, new out of the box, the back boggie had them correct at 13.8 and the front bogie had them wrong at 14.3. Now I have all 4 axles adjusted to 13.8. This solved the problem except for the 2260 double cross over switch which is also new.

It could be the slider which is also new out of the box since the loco was purchased brand new and has less than 1 hour of operation on it.

When the loco hits the 2260 and is supposed to go straight it tries to turn and derails. Can not see what is causing it to lift and that is why I was wondering if it is possibly the wheels.

Peter
Offline TEEWolf  
#4 Posted : 08 August 2017 01:21:54(UTC)
TEEWolf


Joined: 01/06/2016(UTC)
Posts: 2,465
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Yes there are numerous threads even in this forum to make sure that the spacing between flanges for Marklin is 13.8-13.9 mm compared to the standard DC spacing of 14.3 mm. On this loco, new out of the box, the back boggie had them correct at 13.8 and the front bogie had them wrong at 14.3. Now I have all 4 axles adjusted to 13.8. This solved the problem except for the 2260 double cross over switch which is also new.

It could be the slider which is also new out of the box since the loco was purchased brand new and has less than 1 hour of operation on it.

When the loco hits the 2260 and is supposed to go straight it tries to turn and derails. Can not see what is causing it to lift and that is why I was wondering if it is possibly the wheels.

Peter


Hello Peter,

accidentally I read in the German Stummi community about a similar problem of a Roco Railjet. But the writer traced it back to the current conducting couplers at the train.

This especially happens when the loco pushes the train while leaving the shadow station via a switch into a slope (<3%), the coupler kicks down so that it can hit the higher pusher of the K-turnouts and the train stucks, he was writing.

Although you have the problem when your loco pulls the train, but in both cases it is a Roco Railjet on K-tracks turnouts. Maybe it gives you another idea.

regards

Wolfgang
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Offline Rinus  
#5 Posted : 08 August 2017 07:08:27(UTC)
Rinus


Joined: 20/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Wageningen, The Netherlands
Hi Peter,

I'm experiencing similar problems with my Roco Rh1216, but also roco Rh 1110's mainly on the K-trac 22715/6 and 2275 and 2257. I found that the Roco pick-up shoe is causing the problem. Its a little wider than the older Marklin onés and it het entangled with the switch. The shoe gets stuck and then lifts the train causing it to derail.

I have started replacing the Roco pick-up shoe with Marklin 7164, which is about just as long so it fits in nicely, but not as wide. Unfortunately its also more noisy.

Hope this helps.

Rinus
thanks 3 users liked this useful post by Rinus
Offline H0  
#6 Posted : 08 August 2017 07:47:58(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,276
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Rinus Go to Quoted Post
I found that the Roco pick-up shoe is causing the problem.
I have no problems on C track.

The Roco slider has two black plastic parts that can be taken off, making the slider a bit narrower (and potentially a bit noisier).
Worth a try to take the plastic parts off. They are just clipped on and can easily be re-installed.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 08 August 2017 08:41:32(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,747
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
this could be the new version slider as I have only got the first version and as you said the slider is slightly wider by inspecting it closely you should see what it actually does but you have to have your nose and eyes close to the turnout track to observe the culprit.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline PMPeter  
#8 Posted : 08 August 2017 17:24:38(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,275
Location: Port Moody, BC
Well I'm dammed if I do and I'm dammed if I don't. The problem appears to be that with the 2260 double crossover the 13.8 mm wheel spacing is too tight, the wheel lifts on the guide and causes the loco to go in the switched direction rather than straight. If I adjust the wheel spacing to anything less than 14 mm this occurs. However, if I am at 14 mm it will derail at the standard 22715/16 and 2265/66 turnouts.

I have taken Tom's advice and removed the plastic from the slider, but unfortunately this had no effect.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#9 Posted : 08 August 2017 17:27:53(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,121
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: PMPeter Go to Quoted Post
Well I'm dammed if I do and I'm dammed if I don't. The problem appears to be that with the 2260 double crossover the 13.8 mm wheel spacing is too tight, the wheel lifts on the guide and causes the loco to go in the switched direction rather than straight. If I adjust the wheel spacing to anything less than 14 mm this occurs. However, if I am at 14 mm it will derail at the standard 22715/16 and 2265/66 turnouts.

I have taken Tom's advice and removed the plastic from the slider, but unfortunately this had no effect.


I am unimpressed with the K track double crossing. maybe this explains why ...

Offline PMPeter  
#10 Posted : 08 August 2017 18:52:34(UTC)
PMPeter

Canada   
Joined: 04/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 1,275
Location: Port Moody, BC
Finally - success!!!BigGrin

Since it was obvious that I am dealing with a fraction of a mm one way or the other which would allow the loco to go through the various switches I decided to adjust the flange spacing as close as possible for the 2262 double crossing which appeared to require the largest spacing. I rolled only the axle over the switch and adjusted the flange spacing until it would not lift at the guide. Estimate it is somewhere around 13.95 - 13.98 mm. Reassembled all and the loco now goes through all switches consistently. Thank heaven for the Forhmann tools designed for this adjustment.

Only problem now is with the numerous disassembly and assembly, the slider screw can no longer be tightened. For now I filled the hole with Teflon plumbing thread tape and it is at least holding the screw.

Peter
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