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Offline AJH4  
#1 Posted : 16 December 2015 06:27:08(UTC)
AJH4

United States   
Joined: 09/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 41
I have been looking at putting together a DB IC Passenger Set (circ. mid 1980s). The InterCity 690 "Hohenstaufen" cars are now available and I was thinking of using those passenger cars. In looking at actual DB passenger trains from that era, a few long haul passenger lines would have had as many as 14 cars (about 8 or 9 of the blue/ivory cars, with all but one 2nd class, a dining car, and about 3 or 4 of the crimson/ivory first class cars). There are other variants with fewer cars, but not by much. When scaling that down to HO, what is your opinion on the Goldilocks "just right" number and types of cars? I know that is subjective, but I would think only the largest of layouts would really accommodate 14 cars plus a locomotive unless you just had one big loop. Seems like something less than that would be better, but I want to keep the contrast. Getting the two passenger 2015 car sets that Marklin produces would get you 4 2nd class blue (one open seating) and 2 first class crimson (one open seating) cars. You could stop there at 6 and have 4 blue and 2 red, but no specialty car. Add a generic crimson dining car and/or a generic blue 1st class compartment car and that puts you at 8 with 5 blue and 3 crimson and with a mix of essentially all types are cars (which are not available in the IC690 set -- as for dining and 1st class in blue). What are your thoughts?
Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 16 December 2015 08:27:50(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Your approach seems about right to me, if your layout can accomodate 8 coaches.

On my small layout I have to be even more selective and usually represent such a train with 5 coaches; two blue/beige 2nd class, two red/cream 1st class, and a red/cream dining car.

In fact I can represent such a length of train best with 24cm coaches. With 27cm coaches I can still do it but the station loop is a bit short for it.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline GlennM  
#3 Posted : 16 December 2015 12:06:43(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,886
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
I have also given this subject some thought, when thinking of plans for my layout. I think consists need to be of a length that is consummate with your layout, for example if you have a small oval I would not want to see the loco appearing around the first bend whilst the coaches are still disappearing around the last. Likewise if you station is long enough for five coaches would you want eight coach consists passing through regularly??!!??

IMHO the optimum for regular layouts would be an 8 coach consist, I also thought this would offer an option to run shorter 6 or less coach consists as local commuter services or smaller IC services.

If of course you are lucky enough to have a monster layout then go for the 14 (or more) coach consists as in the right setting they look stunning ThumpUp

BR
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#4 Posted : 16 December 2015 16:19:09(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,673
Location: Hybrid Home
Here is info on the prototypical IC Hohenstaufen consist - see PDF: E.g. 103 electric loco + 3 x 1st class + diner + 7 x 2nd class.
ic_hohenstaufen.pdf (89kb) downloaded 46 time(s).
Source: http://www.welt-der-modelleisenbahn.com

The IC Adler in the middle of his career is more MRR-friendly - see PDF: E.g. 103 electric loco + 3 x 2nd class + 1 x 1st class.
ic_adler_1.pdf (92kb) downloaded 30 time(s).
Source: http://www.welt-der-modelleisenbahn.com

IC Adler pic:
103_135__mkis__887__05_03_89_-8.jpg

Here another contender (unfortunately no further info found) - see pic:
D11105_112_308thm.jpg
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Offline Carim  
#5 Posted : 16 December 2015 16:30:17(UTC)
Carim

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 653
Location: London
There's a prototype for everything! (I think that this was an IC shuttle that ran between Wiesbaden Hbf and Mainz Hbf - formation usually sandwiched between two locos).

Short IC.jpg
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Offline mrmarklin  
#6 Posted : 17 December 2015 00:34:38(UTC)
mrmarklin

United States   
Joined: 27/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 897
Location: Burney, CA
I agree with Glenn that eight is enough for a long passenger train. On the ETE modules we have the capacity to run longer trains than that before a train has to turn a corner. But realistically, eight is a very long train visually, and with many more cars than that operational reliability goes down because of the pulling dynamics of the weight of the consist (just like real life!). False uncouplings increase as well as the possibility of derailments on curves. In addition, starting the consist too fast can create derailments as well, particularly if any part of the consist is on a curve.

Not many home layouts can run 14 cars in any sort of straight line, and in fact I don't recall seeing any layouts with the station capacity for such a train.

On my layout in progress, in one station I can have six cars comfortably behind a locomotive. This is not my ideal, but seems "long enough" when operating.

I remember being frustrated in my early Marklin days with the passenger sets that would come out, having only three or four cars. Sometimes there would be an extension set, but not often. Of course when I thought about it, I realized that these were "layout size" consists that probably satisfied the vast majority of customers. Now many sets come with six cars as well as having add ons. For module operation, this is ideal.

Also, there really is a prototype for everything, and short consists are relatively common.Cool
From the People's Republik of Kalifornia
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 17 December 2015 08:11:36(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,268
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
Likewise if you station is long enough for five coaches would you want eight coach consists passing through regularly??!!??
It is like that in real life and I don't mind replicating this on my layout.

There were examples in real life when trains regularly had to stop at stations with two coaches off the platform.

I have few passenger trains with 11 coaches, but most trains are 8 or less coaches. But I like to do some "train bashing". For example I have 7 SNCF Corail coaches - for international trains I can add a few German or Swiss coaches and pretend it is going to Germany or Switzerland.

The close coupler guiding mechanism extends trains in curves. Stress is higher for long trains, stress is higher in tight curves. So avoid at least R1 if you want to have long trains
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#8 Posted : 17 December 2015 11:00:48(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,673
Location: Hybrid Home
In this context, a short IC Oldenburg—Bremen—Hannover in good company.
19930428-930969-DR-112-005-IC-759-Hannover.jpg
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Offline hxmiesa  
#9 Posted : 17 December 2015 12:20:03(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,520
Location: Spain
I have a huge layout, optimized for long stretches of tracks and trains. Still, I find that the very long trains are total overkill.
My system can handle 4m long trains, and I have a number of such, but I far better like 6, 7 and 8 coach long trains. At least in H0 the visual impression by this length is "good" (as in "Goldilock"). One might enjoy longer trains if the scale was smaller though...
It is also very nice to see a strong mixture of train lengths; I enjoy very much see the short 3-coach long Airport Express trains rush by, inbetween longer trains.
As long as each train can be "justified" by some explanation to have a realistic appearance and reason, everything is fine. (And it is very easy to imagine these justifications! ;-)

I think the optimal length depends very much on the layout where it will run; You should be able to see the whole train in a single environment. Not a train that is simultaneiosly at the station, in the country, crossing a bridge, a RR-crossing and passing through an industrial area and an alpine tunnel all at the same time...

If your joy is in running compositions on an oval layout without landscape and decoration, you might enjoy replicating the EXACT compositions, down to individual running-numbers for each coach, etc. -But in that case i will refrain from more comments, becasue that is just so "not me"! ;-)
Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline Alsterstreek  
#10 Posted : 17 December 2015 12:30:38(UTC)
Alsterstreek

Germany   
Joined: 16/11/2011(UTC)
Posts: 5,673
Location: Hybrid Home
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
I think the optimal length depends very much on the layout where it will run; You should be able to see the whole train in a single environment.

Slightly off-topic now: Approach by the late MRR layout designer John Armstrong - see screenshot.
;o)

jabttrapp.jpg
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