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Offline michelvr  
#1 Posted : 30 October 2014 15:51:44(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Good Morning,

I thought that I would post one of my experiences in how to wire a large Marklin layout. I'm new to wiring a Marklin layout, have wired many DCC layouts so here is a simple wiring mistake that can cost you!

I'm near the end of the line so to speak! I have only a few more pieces of K track to install, then my double track main line is complete. My layout will be using the ESU ECoS and be computer controlled. I have created blocks so that I can detect where the trains are. Each block has feeder wires going to the underside of the layout. I decided to power each mainline separately with a booster for each line, utilizing the crossover tracks as the isolated sections. I have 6 crossover sections.

Now that I am planning to connect the feeder wires to the bus. I was wondering what happens when the slider goes over the pukos when they switch boosters at the crossovers? Will there be a short or will everything be fine? I know I read something about that, didn't I? So I re-read the ESU Booster manual and then the Marklin Electrical Manual 07421 and on page 30 it states to install a "rocker insulator." Or as ESU calls it a "slider lifter"

Quote from the manual, "At no point may the pick up shoe on a locomotive create an electrical connection between two power consumption areas, when the locomotive is passing over the separation point!"

Oops, I forgot about that!

So I ordered the "rocker insulator(s)" and hopefully I'll have them soon to install!

Luckily my curiously got me out of trouble!
Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 30 October 2014 20:17:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Good evening,

You do not normally need centre rail rockers for homogeneous configurations. You don't need them between 6021 and 6017 or between CS2 and 60173 or between ECoS and ECoSBoost.

You do need them between analogue and digital and you also may need them with heterogeneous configurations (boosters from different suppliers).

And the ECoSBoost manual confirms this.

In general you will have less trouble without centre rail rockers.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#3 Posted : 30 October 2014 20:24:53(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
I can confirm what Tom says. I have 2 boosted sections on my layout, and both the CS2/60174 and Ecos/Ecosboost work fine on my layout without rocker centre rail isolators.

You still need to isolate the centre rail between sections using the appropriate isolators, for K and C track - for M track, a thin piece of cardboard will work fine.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#4 Posted : 30 October 2014 20:25:10(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
I can confirm what Tom says. I have 2 boosted sections on my layout, and both the CS2/60174 and Ecos/Ecosboost work fine on my layout without rocker centre rail isolators.

You still need to isolate the centre rail between sections using the appropriate isolators for K and C track - for M track, a thin piece of cardboard will work fine.
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H0
Offline michelvr  
#5 Posted : 30 October 2014 22:07:12(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Hello Tom and Bigdaddynz,

Thank you for your posts. I was under the impression that I would get a short without using the rocker insulators if the locomotive bridged both booster areas?

What I have done at the turnout crossovers is to isolate both rails with plastic rail joiners and also the centre rail with 7522 Third Rail Insulator. I'll wire up the double main line and test it out tomorrow.

Thank you for helping me!

Michel

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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#6 Posted : 31 October 2014 01:48:19(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
You probably wouldn't want to park a loco's pickup shoe over the join between 2 sections, thereby bridging them but a momentary bridge when a loco passes over is fine.

I believe this is all to do with symmetry of the output waveform from the various devices - in sync as happens when using devices from the same manufacturer works fine, using mixed devices from various manufacturers may not work OK due to different output waveform characteristics.

For example, if the waveforms were 180 degrees out of sync between sections, where one would be going positive and the other is going negative at the same point in time, that may be a situation where you would need the rockers.

I think that is what Tom means when he talks about "homogeneous configurations".
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 31 October 2014 08:47:12(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
The standard configuration between booster sections: centre rail isolation, no centre rail rocker, no outer rail isolation.

While I was using two Märklin boosters 66045 to feed the layout, I did it like that: centre isolation only, nothing else needed - absolutely no problems.

Between programming track (Intellibox) and main track I used isolation for centre rail and outer rails (required for IB programming track) and I also used a centre rail rocker. Without rocker, trains passing the joint would sometimes cause problems, e.g. other locos standing on the layout would move a bit.

If you have to boosters of the same type (and the ECoS has a built-in ECoSBoost) then you will bridge signals that are in sync. If track voltage was set to the same level, only small current will flow through the bridge and nothing will happen.

With different boosters you may have 18 V on one track and 22 V on the other. This is a heterogeneous configuration and you may get trouble without rocker.

I remember one case where a user had swapped red and brown with the track connection of the 60174 booster. He got big sparks when the loco passed over that spot. Hardware didn't get damaged and once wires were right, everything worked fine without sparks. A centre rail rocker would also do the trick, but it's better to solve the issue instead of using a workaround with disadvantages.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline michelvr  
#8 Posted : 31 October 2014 15:20:46(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
Thank you David and Tom,

Seems that I have my day full so I will not be able to try out the testing today.

I'll also reinstall the metal fishplates onto the outer rails to conform to the standardized configuration for booster sections.

When I was using Digitrax it was recommended from their tech support to isolate both rails. Digitrax had polarity issues with boosters that is why it was suggested to isolate both rails.

Michel
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