I have learn about Märklins digital system.
It can´t been complete system,since it don´t works complete.
Upgrade and bugs makes system not complete,which makes unsatisfaction for the customer too.
So my question to you is:
Do you want another new digital system which must been an complete system,so you can use it without trouble?

What I would be asking at this point is...

1: What components or features do you think are missing from the existing system (to call it "not-complete")?

2: What other digital systems have the missing components or features

3: Are there any alternative solutions that others have found to obtain those features in the existing Marklin Digital System?

Assuming I understand your comment correctly?

Cheers

Steve

Looks like a complete system to me....

I have no issue on CS2, MS2 and mfx (the problem is mfx not read with 60212 system)

I use backup CS2 and clear all loco list on MS2 before update and did not see any problem.

100% Complete digital (not a system)

Me neither.
I don't use it.
I just want to put a loco on the track and turn the knob of my 280A to let it run, just as I was used to back in the day as a kid.

I suppose one has to to define "complete". Is something not complete if there are more things it could do but doesn't?

For example, is your car not complete if it is missing a Satnav system? How about if it lacks a turbo-charger?

I have no doubt that the Marklin digital systems could be improved to do more, but I don't think that makes it incomplete. I consider that it does everything that a digital system is expected to do. It controls multiple locomotives independantly, controls various digital functions available on locomotives, it controls digital accessories, and has various facilities for layout automation, including interfaces with computers.

To me, that makes it complete.

The interesting thing is that real railways are mostly run with less sophistication than many of our model railroads...

I remember a funny cartoon from the 80's regarding Swedish Railways where the conclusion in the last frame was to use a Märklin Digital system to run the real trains reliably on schedule instead of ATC....

Some years ago I visited the South Swedish railway control central and was surprised to see how much it resembled the digital operation with a 6021 generation controller layout, stop section detection by shorting the rails and such... But they had many station & line layouts on a lot of screens, and a software that predicted where a train should be if all was normal by "s88 contacts" along the lines (ie track occupation & ATC waypoint detectors)...

Hehehe,

Agreed Marco,

The only tried and true, bug-free digital system I know of is ... analog !

Y

PS: OT .. ok, ok, ^^

Goofy's problem seems to be he expects too much from a Mobile Station ! He needs to aquire any sort of Central Station and he will enjoy operating his trains digitally a lot more.
MS's are designed for starter sets and to be added as extra throttles for CS's, but can control a small layout quite successfully too
Marklin is continually upgrading and adding components to their Digital System (See Tom's post)

Happily operating my trains with CS1-R V3.3 and MS1

Hi Anders,

If I happen to find any bugs in Marklinistanbul, I use the sprays below...but so far no bugs have dared to visit my system.....



Cheers,

mehmet

Hi Anders,

The main difference is that CU 6021 was principally HW based.

OK, I know: also in the CU 6021 there is SW in the microprocessor, but it has not to manage screen graphics capabilities like MS2 or CS2 (the latter with colour touchscreen features too), only LEDs have to be lit.
The CU 6021 has other separate components, such as Interface, Keyboard and Memory, plus Control 80f, but their features are more simply (and less complex to implement) compared with those of CS2 principally.

Do not forget that also CU 6021 and its components had the so colled Firmware (the SW inside their microprocessors) upgraded, even if you do not notice that as the Firmware revision is not displayed anywhere.

Last but not least, CU 6021 has no MFX or MFX+ Cab Control capabilities.

More the SW is complex, more you can expect bugs with revisions and upgrades, as for the Operating Systems Windows, Mac, Linux and so on...

And it is a common thing in the Information Technology field that one bug fix introduces a new bug that must be fixed...

Cheers

Renato

I think Steve has hit the nail on the head!

The distinction between "complete"and "finished" is a fine one in the English language, but they do not mean the same thing.

Now I see that Anders meant that the development of the Marklin digital system is not finished in that it will have more updates and upgrades to come. This has nothing to do with the fact that it is a complete working system.

Just like to add, that I consider this a hobby that never completes itself.

Layout = never finished
New Items = must have
Old Items = must run and maintain
New Buildings = must construct
New books = must read
New tech = must learn

Cheers all!
Brian

PERFECT!

I'd rather stick with märklin, thank you!

Upgrade...bugs...upgrade...bugs...upgrade...bugs...upgrade...bugs...

How does yours physical condition react when you know yourself:"Ohhh no...not another more upgrade!When can Märklin finish digital as complete system?"
"Bugs again!?Come on bastard!"

As customer i´m not happy to use corrupt system.
I know i use Trix MS2,but i fool myself to use it.

....it is GREAT felling to be in a state of being understood....

Thank you, my friend....

I have no more warranty with my MS2,since i did bought it for over three years ago now.
If MS2 stop in working after i did upgrade,how can i use MS2...?

That's a very impressive array of controllers there, PJ!

I have a single 6021 which I used for a few years, and recently it got replaced by a MS2. I have not tried to upgrade my MS2, as it works fine as it is, but eventually I might feel the need to have newer models in the loco database, and that is the only reason I can think of for upgrading it.

Meanwhile, my 6021 remains on the shelf as a spare, should something go wrong with the MS2.

My philosophy has always been "If it ain't broke don't fix it!", so if you are happy with your digital setup all I say is may you continue to enjoy it for many years to come!

I myself had no intention to move away from the 6021, but I happened on a really good deal on a MS2 complete with track box and power supply, so I bought it for testing purposes. I found the auto-registration of mfx very easy, and I no longer need to worry so much about running out of digital addresses. The extra functions available on the MS2 over a 6021 is a bonus, but not a deal breaker for me. Overall, I found the MS2 better for my purposes than the 6021, so it became my main controller.

PJ, if you do feel tempted to upgrade to MS2 or CS2, don't listen too much to the prophets of doom! You will probably enjoy the new controlling experience much more than you think, and most users don't have as many problems as are reported here!

When I was a child I had only analog locos. I have born in 1975 and if I remember correctly the first Märklin digital locos came in around 1984-1985, so then I did not have them. When I re-started my model railroad hobby in 2001-2002 I bought first some starter sets with analog transformers and then finally 6021 and it´s 60 VA transformer from a 29855 starter set. I have still this very same 6021 and the transformer, but not in use anymore. It was used as a controller for my lower level layout still some time ago before I connected my layouts upper and lower level together. Now both levels are used with CS2 60214. Just one month before I bought with very cheap price my CS2 I bought a 29539 starter set including MS2 digital controller. Nowadays it is used to control my Märklin 1 gauge trains.

I like 6021 controller for many reasons. It starts immediately (like MS2 does), but CS2 starts very slowly as it is basically a Linux computer. 6021 is great to find a loco address between 01-80 as it is very fast to just turn the throttle and try all combinations between 01-80 to find out which address a loco has. I have nowadays small stickers with loco address under all my digital locos and when I open my CS2 there is easy to see locos address. Then I have all addresses written in a file in my computer for back-up. I also like to program locos with 6021, but it is just me . I think PJ´s solution having one 6021 for each loco running on his layout is great and very clear way to control them. Also turnouts can be controlled with mechanical buttons and I would like to have this type of unit to go separately with my CS2 just for controlling my 25 turnouts.

As I like also simple analog bug free operation I have analog layout in my garage. It is the most reliable one.

6021 type older digital controlled layout is very reliable and bug free.

Newer MS2 and CS2 controllers have their software problems, but I can live with them and I have not got any major problems. I have updated my CS2 to newer versions frequently to get some of the latest advantages and bug fixes. We just have to accept that these newer systems are so much more complicated and they offer so many new possibilities and functions that it is sometimes needed to get new "bugs" updated.

I´m happy with all of these, but I have not very much experience with MS2. It works ok to run some Märklin 1 gauge locos. It is more difficult to do some things with it vs. CS2 as it has only a small screen. Turnouts are more difficult to control and as there are not all locos in the list it gets sometimes more difficult to find them.

Overall I´m very happy with all of them. The World is not complete. Everything will change and I hope to better direction. It is great that newer locos can still be used with 6021. It is a great controller. If I could not have my CS2 60214 basically for free I think I would continue using it (=6021) with my H0 layout .

Regards,
Janne

Hi Anders
I echo what has been said before - get a spare MS2 as back up: When changing from analog to digital about 4 yrs ago, I bought a start set with MS2, and on good advice from forum members I bought a back up MS2 very soon thereafter. And when one of my MS2's started malfunctioning recently, and while its still at M, at least I have a spare to "play trains" with
Joe

So long Märklin do upgrade which there is sometimes bugs too,theirs digital system can never been an complete system.

I have an question to you...
You shall only answer YES or NO.
Do you want an complete digital system without to upgrade and bugs?

No.

It's like buying an iPad 1 today and not being able to upgrade to get rid of the bugs and also miss new useful functionality.
I will then have to buy a new "complete system" to get the new stuff that makes a system "more complete" than the earlier one...