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Offline Rudi Bekkers  
#1 Posted : 07 September 2005 13:19:38(UTC)
Rudi Bekkers


You have been a member since:: 15/02/2005(UTC)
Posts: 132
Location: Vught,
Hello,

I was wondering if anyone could give an explanation how the default driving direction of loco's (digital and Delta) can be determined. I have now automated my layout to a large degree, and I am quite happy with it. The remaining thing, however, is that if I put a new loco on the rails, it sometimes starts driving in the wrong way. I would like to have the driving direction in the Mobile Station for every loco in the same direction (arrow to the right).

For steam loco's, the default forward direction is obvious. For electric loco's I did not see a clue yet, and they are often pretty symmetric in design! There seems to be no relation with the location of the pickup shoe (or am I wrong?).

I also noticed that one or two of my loco's 'correct' the driving direction after they are powered again after a long time. I vaguely remember this to be a feature of newer M* decoders (?!?)

Help is appreciated,

Rudi Bekkers
Offline Lars Westerlind  
#2 Posted : 07 September 2005 14:45:44(UTC)
Lars Westerlind


Joined: 19/10/2001(UTC)
Posts: 2,379
Location: Lindome, Sweden
Well,
to my knowledge there is no guarrantee whatsoever about default driving direction. There was i discussion a long time ago where I learnt that even field coils may be winded in different direction. So I guess you'll have to decide yourself how you want it and adjust it accordingly.
German electric locos have a '1' in the A-end, and I think there is slight precedence of having the slider forward. But i've had it the opposite way around in a few cases, where I want to shorten the distance between locos slider and cars slider (due to circuit tracks aspects).

It's true that modern decoders remember direction. But you might also encounter another problem. If I've got it correctly, many decoders have a state to indicate wheter they are running the "right" diretion or not. If such a loco goes from an analogue section to a digital, it continues regardless of the arrow setting of the control unit; it would be very bad if it should just begin to go the opposite direction. I don't know how to make sure that this state is reset.
/Lars

Offline Pug  
#3 Posted : 07 September 2005 15:55:14(UTC)
Pug


You have been a member since:: 31/10/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9
Location: Melbourne Australia
In the Central Station there is a location in the lok properties where you can define the forward direction of the lok, at least for the new mfx decoders.
Geoff
Offline digilox1  
#4 Posted : 08 September 2005 01:46:52(UTC)
digilox1


Joined: 28/05/2003(UTC)
Posts: 719
Location: ,
Their convention is the pickup slider is pointing to the forward
direction. This might not be applied consistently but the overwhelming majority of B and C truck locos is following it.

Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:I also noticed that one or two of my loco's 'correct' the driving direction after they are powered again after a long time. I vaguely remember this to be a feature of newer M* decoders (?!?)


That`s a characteristic of older/Motorola 1 decoders.
If you turn off power whilst the loco is not selected to run in the default/"preferred" direction, it will switch to its default direction
as soon as the decoder loses its memory.

How long is that? Depending on the badge of decoders, that`s about
two minutes to a couple of weeks.

Hence the recommendation in older signal books and k84 decoders manuals to install a resistor between the two poles turning off/on power in signal block sections. The resistor will let pass a small amount of power, enough to support the decoder`s memory, but not powerful enough to move a loco. Lighted cars standing with their slider shoe in the same block section will reduce the power to a level not high enough to support the memory of the decoder.

Regards,
Manfred



Offline McLae  
#5 Posted : 08 September 2005 01:58:23(UTC)
McLae


Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX
Here is how you solve the problem:
Take each Lok. Put it on the shelf for 2 months. Place the Lok on the track. Command it to go forward. Stop the Lok and make a mark on the front of the Lok. Now, whenever you replace the Lok on the track, you know which direction is front. Also, remember to drive all Loks forward before removing from track. [:o)]

Seriously, most Loks have some mark on the front. Look for H/V (for front/back) or some other mark. Make your own on the bottom if you need to.
DCC decoders (this includes ESU decoders) have a direction setting. When running multiple US Loks, there should be a cab at each end. The first Lok runs 'forward', and the last runs 'backward'. Also very handy if you get the blue and green wires backwards during refits.[:p]

P.S. When asking digital questions, add what system you are using. Sometimes the answer is different if you are using MS vs CS vs 6021 vs IB. This is more true as MS/CS gains numbers.
The McLae
IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V
Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
Offline perz  
#6 Posted : 08 September 2005 10:52:32(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
All modern locos and all modern control equipment, i.e. equipment that uses either the "new Märklin/Motorola" format or the "mfx" format, have "absolute" direction control. This means that for the same loco, a certain driving direction on the control unit will always result in the same driving direction for the loco. The "default" can be different between different locos, but should not be different from time to time with the same loco.

For older locos this is not true since they have only "relative" direction control. Also older control equipment, or equipment configured to send only old code formats, may send only relative direction commands. A digital loco may also remember the last direction driven and start with that direction if it is placed on an analog layout.
Offline McLae  
#7 Posted : 09 September 2005 04:52:14(UTC)
McLae


Joined: 16/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 1,575
Location: DeSoto (Dallas area), TX
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:A digital loco may also remember the last direction driven and start with that direction if it is placed on an analog layout.
Go to Top of Page


Or when digital power is restored.[:p] Big surprise when Lok starts moving before the address is dialed. Lots of quick putton pushing.biggrin
The McLae
IB digital, DB, OBB, SBB epII-V
Providing a home for little lost 'Gators
Offline Nuno  
#8 Posted : 09 September 2005 17:21:01(UTC)
Nuno


Joined: 27/05/2003(UTC)
Posts: 235
Location: ,
Hi

In some leaflets that come with the locos it is written that the loco has a preferred direction of travel with respect to the slider position (I mean electical and diesel, of course). Why is this important? Does it have to do with what it has been discussed here?

Cheers,

Nuno Smile
Offline digilox1  
#9 Posted : 09 September 2005 17:31:26(UTC)
digilox1


Joined: 28/05/2003(UTC)
Posts: 719
Location: ,
Yes, exactly.

Regards,
Manfred
Offline perz  
#10 Posted : 10 September 2005 17:35:26(UTC)
perz

Sweden   
Joined: 12/01/2002(UTC)
Posts: 2,578
Location: Sweden
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Or when digital power is restored.


Yes, and that is rather annoying. If you turn off the power to the 6021 while trains are running, and then turn on the power to it again after a while, some trains may remember their speed and direction and drive away in the previous direction.

I find it strange that Märklin haven't thought of this situation. The 6021 sends out an "idle" message after power up. The natural way to interpret the "idle" message would have been to see it as a general "stop" message. But instead, the decoders interpret it as a stop command to address 0 (which isn't selectable on the 6021 but can be used in a loco if you have a control equipment that can send commands to it).
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Big surprise when Lok starts moving before the address is dialed. Lots of quick putton pushing.


If this situation arises, you just push "stop". Then you can set each loco to its desired starting condition without being in a hurry.
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