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Offline GlennM  
#1 Posted : 05 January 2014 15:25:49(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,886
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England

Firstly apologies if this topic has been raised elsewhere, I did a quick search and could not find anything specific, but that does mean there is another one.

I have been running my Märklin BR 150 [Märklin item 37851] equipped with the new Digital Telex Couplings over the Christmas period, and have noticed that the consist (a consist of 8 'rollende landstrasse' wagons and associated coach), the coach being the item connected to the Loco. Whilst running the loco became disconnected from the coach coupling on a large number of occasions, say if I did 30 loops, then it became disconnected at least two thirds of the time. The speed was no an issue as it became disconnected at varying speeds, on close inspection the coach coupling simply disconnected. Running the coach with a different loco showed there was no generic issue with the coach coupling.

Upon close review of the telex coupling, I would note there is only a small amount of play in the coupling and it is my conclusion that the telex coupling is failing to keep the connection allowing the coah to break free. I tried operating the telex coupling several types to see if it would help, but it did not.

I am therefore asking if anyone else has experienced similar problems, on this or other locos fitted with the new telex coupling, and if so is there a solution, or is this a potential 'banana' skin in design?

Your thoughts appreciated.

BR

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 05 January 2014 15:28:10(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
Any pictures of the model??
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline GlennM  
#3 Posted : 05 January 2014 15:30:36(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,886
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Hello,

I will take some this afternoon and post

BR

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 05 January 2014 15:40:32(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: GlennM Go to Quoted Post
Whilst running the loco became disconnected from the coach coupling on a large number of occasions
Known problem with several models that have these new couplers.
See this thread for further information.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline river6109  
#5 Posted : 05 January 2014 16:18:05(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Glenn, it doesn't help by mentioning a Roco telex coupling which is slightly different. Roco couplings will be able to latch onto the Roco electrical telex coupling and visa versa creating a double hook coupling.
the only other thing I've noticed anything metal on the track and the Roco telex coupling will pick it up which in turn could mean it can't uncouple.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline RayF  
#6 Posted : 05 January 2014 16:52:37(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi Glenn, Is the problem the same with both ends of the loco? It could be that one of the two couplers is better at holding on to the wagons.

These new Telex couplings will only work well with Marklin close couplers. If the coach is fitted with Relex couplings you should change them to close couplers.

You can also try swapping the coach end for end to see if the coach end makes a difference.

Good luck!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Harvey  
#7 Posted : 06 January 2014 02:22:25(UTC)
Harvey

United States   
Joined: 17/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 594
Location: Glen Oaks, N.Y.
Glenn

I have had this loc for some time, use it to pull my 47026 (lumber cars). One of my favorite locs - strong and silent. I have not operated the telex (maybe once) and have not had problems with the random uncoupling. I have had issues with some other locs where there has been random uncoupling. I change the direction of the loc or the first car following.

So, no real help.

Harvey
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Offline NZMarklinist  
#8 Posted : 06 January 2014 02:46:42(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Hi Glenn,

I have had a couple of Loks (37900 V290 and 34171 BR52 with Condense Tender) digitally upgraded using these telex couplers and can report similar problems, in fact I've replaced both ends on the V290 which uses a Marklin MSD and because the action cannot be timed, it causes the couplers to burn out Scared, at the moment the horn is actuated when a coupler is on, quiet annoying really, but as the Lok is an early compact C Sine example it is prone to not go when the throttle is opened after some use, so the whole conversion has been a wast of time and money so far !Cursing
I have ordered two new axles without tyres, to see if performance can be improved.
With the ESU V4 (fitted to the BR52) the decoder does the "Coupler waltz when it uncouples ! works a treat ! but it will let go if a weighty consist is pulled. ThumbDown
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
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Offline BrandonVA  
#9 Posted : 06 January 2014 16:19:15(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
I find sometimes after uncoupling you may have to "bump" the coupler to get it to lock again.

-Brandon
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Offline GlennM  
#10 Posted : 09 January 2014 18:59:02(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,886
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: NZMarklinist Go to Quoted Post
Hi Glenn,

I have had a couple of Loks (37900 V290 and 34171 BR52 with Condense Tender) digitally upgraded using these telex couplers and can report similar problems, in fact I've replaced both ends on the V290 which uses a Marklin MSD and because the action cannot be timed, it causes the couplers to burn out Scared, at the moment the horn is actuated when a coupler is on, quiet annoying really, but as the Lok is an early compact C Sine example it is prone to not go when the throttle is opened after some use, so the whole conversion has been a wast of time and money so far !Cursing
I have ordered two new axles without tyres, to see if performance can be improved.
With the ESU V4 (fitted to the BR52) the decoder does the "Coupler waltz when it uncouples ! works a treat ! but it will let go if a weighty consist is pulled. ThumbDown


Glen,

My initial thoughts were that perhaps it was a weight issue that was causing the loco to uncouple.

I will try and get a close up photo done this week-end and we can see if there is anything immediately obvious.

BR

Glenn


PS: I did not get chance to answer you post it the 2013 Loco Purchase thread before it was locked, but yes I also have potential concerns with the coupler on the BR45 but I am reserving comment till I can run it. On Nigel's layout we just ran his BR45 in the proximity of the roundhouse and turntable to see if it was functioning properly. I have seen his double header (BR44) Langer Heinrich run with 19 (I think) hopper cars attached and that was awesome running up and down his spiral.

BR

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline GlennM  
#11 Posted : 09 January 2014 19:23:25(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,886
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post
Hi Glenn, Is the problem the same with both ends of the loco? It could be that one of the two couplers is better at holding on to the wagons.

These new Telex couplings will only work well with Marklin close couplers. If the coach is fitted with Relex couplings you should change them to close couplers.

You can also try swapping the coach end for end to see if the coach end makes a difference.

Good luck!



Ray,

Yes it is and I have swapped the coach around as well. I will do some photos and testing and report back.

BR

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline GlennM  
#12 Posted : 18 January 2014 15:24:20(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,886
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Sorry to all, for the delay in posting the pictures to this thread, so here goes;

This is the loco in question;

UserPostedImage

This is general arrangement photo showing coupling;

UserPostedImage

This is a detailed photo of the coupling at the right side end (as you look at above picture 1);

UserPostedImage

This is a detailed photo of the coupling at the left side end (as you look at above picture 1);

UserPostedImage

Please note both couplings are as they were when test run and consist became detached. Both couplings look fine to me, and I cannot understand why they lose the consist. Can anyone notice anything I have missed?

Next I will try different coupling on the coach and see if it is as simple as that.

BR

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
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Offline Goofy  
#13 Posted : 18 January 2014 15:55:25(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,019
I think that telex coupling is slightly pulling down,when you start pulling the coaches.
Just few millimetres will make big difference to lose the coaches.
Are you using Märklins short couple on the wagons?
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Armando  
#14 Posted : 18 January 2014 16:20:25(UTC)
Armando

United States   
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,352
Location: Houston, Texas
Hi all,

I for one find these new telex couplers very ugly and bulky, especially on short steam or diesel locomotives.

I am actually trying to find a way to remove them, at least from the front end. on some of my locomotives, and replace them by normal close-couplers or retrofit the older telex couplers on that end.

Cheers!
Best regards,
Armando García

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Offline RayF  
#15 Posted : 18 January 2014 17:09:14(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: Armando Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I for one find these new telex couplers very ugly and bulky, especially on short steam or diesel locomotives.

I am actually trying to find a way to remove them, at least from the front end. on some of my locomotives, and replace them by normal close-couplers or retrofit the older telex couplers on that end.

Cheers!


Hi Armando,

I agree the Telex couplers are bulky and ugly. I actually prefer when locos bring normal close couplers and I uncouple using uncoupling tracks.

These couplers are inserted into standard NEM pockets, as far as I am aware, so it should be possible to extract them and replace them with normal couplers. You might have to unsolder the connections first though.

I think it unlikely that you could change them for the old style Telex, as these required quite a bit of room in the loco.

Let us know how you get on if you do swap the couplers.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Armando  
#16 Posted : 18 January 2014 18:32:54(UTC)
Armando

United States   
Joined: 21/07/2003(UTC)
Posts: 1,352
Location: Houston, Texas
Originally Posted by: RayF Go to Quoted Post


These couplers are inserted into standard NEM pockets, as far as I am aware, so it should be possible to extract them and replace them with normal couplers. You might have to unsolder the connections first though.

I think it unlikely that you could change them for the old style Telex, as these required quite a bit of room in the loco.

Let us know how you get on if you do swap the couplers.


Hi Ray,
Thanks for the useful tip. I will probably opt for the standard close coupler at the front end of the engine. It seems like the best solution if it's just a matter of unsoldering the cables and using the NEM female coupler.
Cheers!


Best regards,
Armando García

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Offline GlennM  
#17 Posted : 18 January 2014 19:08:11(UTC)
GlennM

United Kingdom   
Joined: 09/05/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,886
Location: Somewhere, But Nowhere Near Manchester, England
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
I think that telex coupling is slightly pulling down,when you start pulling the coaches.
Just few millimetres will make big difference to lose the coaches.
Are you using Märklins short couple on the wagons?


Hello Goofy,

I could understand if it was disconnecting when starting off but it is not, it is usually on a long straight section, and the coupling comes apart and the consist drifts to a halt.

The consist is connected via the Rollende Landstrasse coach, it is a late 90's item(?) so not too old, I will add a picture of the coupling asap.

Luckily I do not have too many locos with this kind of coupling, but it would be nice if I could resolve this problem.

I can understand other peoples feelings viz the size of the coupling, but I guess it is the size of coupling versus the convenience of being able to uncouple anywhere on your layout

BR

Glenn
Don't look back, your not heading that way.
Offline BrandonVA  
#18 Posted : 20 January 2014 15:54:56(UTC)
BrandonVA

United States   
Joined: 09/12/2011(UTC)
Posts: 2,533
Location: VA
Glenn,

Just out of curiosity, if you try with another wagon/coach with close coupler do you get the same results? I have found the new style telex are somewhat "picky", if you have a wagon where the coupler is just a bit warped or bent, it may not work. My other thought would be to try with a shorter (lighter) train, just to see what happens.

If you said you did this already and I missed it, my apologies.

-Brandon
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Offline river6109  
#19 Posted : 20 January 2014 16:25:38(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,728
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Glenn, not having seen these coupler's in person I can't really comment on it what could be wrong, the only thing I can see is the top part seems to be away from the hook so anything that may aggravates the coupling on your carriages will find the loophole to uncouple.
How does this telex coupling work, I assume it raises a bar similar to the old one and releases the coupling of the carriage.

See if solenoid lifter has completely returned to its bottom setting.

another solution is to buy Roco electrical coupling and they work well with the same Roco type of ordinary short couplings, the good part is the loop on both loco and carriage will sit behind the hook creating a double coupling action.

John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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