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Offline jpsolinsky  
#1 Posted : 20 July 2013 16:19:56(UTC)
jpsolinsky

United States   
Joined: 20/07/2013(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Towson, MD
I have a smaller layout 4' x 7' steam era's 2 & 3 and wanted to run multiple trains. I don't anticipate increasing the footprint of the layout. I understand that the Delta system has been discontinued for a while now. A hobby shop in my state is dropping Marklin and he has the delta 6604 controllers deeply discounted. My question: I have an 89-006 locomotive w/o the delta-controller. How difficult would it be to put one in if I found one. My other loco 38-2545 has the delta chip in it. Thanks in advance for your answers

Offline H0  
#2 Posted : 20 July 2013 16:44:31(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi, Joseph,

Installing a Delta chip requires basic soldering skills (six wires for your BR 89.0).
A Delta Control 6604 does not support any digital functions and cannot program modern decoders. If there is a chance you'll get any modern digital locos in the near future, getting an MS2 instead would probably be a good move.
This would also allow to get a better decoder for the BR 89.0.

If you're happy with analogue operations, a cheap Delta Control could be a good move.

How much is deeply discounted?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline jpsolinsky  
#3 Posted : 20 July 2013 20:48:55(UTC)
jpsolinsky

United States   
Joined: 20/07/2013(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Towson, MD
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Hi, Joseph,

Installing a Delta chip requires basic soldering skills (six wires for your BR 89.0).
A Delta Control 6604 does not support any digital functions and cannot program modern decoders. If there is a chance you'll get any modern digital locos in the near future, getting an MS2 instead would probably be a good move.
This would also allow to get a better decoder for the BR 89.0.

If you're happy with analogue operations, a cheap Delta Control could be a good move.

How much is deeply discounted?


Hello Tom,
Thanks for the input. I don't plan to expand this layout in the future - just collect the rolling stock , loco's and build the German building models. As all the children have flew the roost - I have the time to devote to the hobby. My family gave me my 1st marklin set 20 years ago as a fathers day gift. My how time flies......
The price marked on the carton for the 6604 controller was $95.00 US. The owners wife who was minding the shop said she would sell for $62.00. Then she told me that they were trying to clear their remaining stock as they were not planning to carry marklin going forward and have not reordered in several years ask her or her husband for special pricing.

Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 20 July 2013 21:01:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: jpsolinsky Go to Quoted Post
The price marked on the carton for the 6604 controller was $95.00 US.
A few years ago I bought a 6604 new, boxed, from German dealer for 1 Euro on eBay. Nowadays I expect to get one for 10 or 15 Euros.

$62 seems pretty high to me. Maybe a forum member can make you a better price.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline jpsolinsky  
#5 Posted : 21 July 2013 04:19:39(UTC)
jpsolinsky

United States   
Joined: 20/07/2013(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Towson, MD
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jpsolinsky Go to Quoted Post
The price marked on the carton for the 6604 controller was $95.00 US.
A few years ago I bought a 6604 new, boxed, from German dealer for 1 Euro on eBay. Nowadays I expect to get one for 10 or 15 Euros.

$62 seems pretty high to me. Maybe a forum member can make you a better price.


Yes, compared to 1 euro $62.00 is expensive!
Offline franciscohg  
#6 Posted : 21 July 2013 04:31:43(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,274
Location: Patagonia
There is one on ebay.com now for 49 USD....
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 21 July 2013 08:59:42(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
BTW: the 6604 was replaced by the improved 66045. There is one on eBay for USD 32.95 (plus USD 9.45 shipping from Greek).
There are some on eBay.de with a starting price of EUR 1 and no bids yet, but I didn't check the postage rates. A few have been sold for EUR 10 or less recently.

There is one "Marklin HO 6604" for USD 39.95 plus shipping from Berkley.

Joseph, maybe the dealer is open for negotiations? The 6604 was discontinued 10 years ago - and 10 years are a very long time in the digital era.

In general it's OK to pay a little bit more if you have a local brick and mortar store with good support - but they are clearing their Märklin stuff, so probably this means there won't be support in the future.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Goofy  
#8 Posted : 21 July 2013 09:08:47(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,020
Why to get delta controllers when it´s much more fun to play with digital system?
In my case...it´s worthless to get delta controller when you can buy an MS2.
Even as collector you can always pick up an digital locomotivs with severals digital functions(sounds) to play.
Marklin don´t producing delta controller any more time...and i don´t think they do service too with delta controller if it brokes.
Warranty don´t excist to buy used products.
So if you buy an used delta controller...you loss money.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline franciscohg  
#9 Posted : 21 July 2013 19:49:24(UTC)
franciscohg

Chile   
Joined: 10/07/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,274
Location: Patagonia
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Why to get delta controllers when it´s much more fun to play with digital system?
In my case...it´s worthless to get delta controller when you can buy an MS2.
Even as collector you can always pick up an digital locomotivs with severals digital functions(sounds) to play.
Marklin don´t producing delta controller any more time...and i don´t think they do service too with delta controller if it brokes.
Warranty don´t excist to buy used products.
So if you buy an used delta controller...you loss money.



Agreed!!! for a small layout the best choice is an MS2, you can control your Delta locos, any new digital one you may buy, and you can control all the functions, plus the ability to control your turnouts and/or any signal you may have/install in your layout


for instance, this one:
http://www.ebay.de/itm/M...&hash=item3f1cd12bc0

with the latest firmware, control box and tranformer
UserPostedImage German trains era I-II and selected III, era depends on the mood, mostly Maerklin but i can be heretic if needed XD, heresy is no longer an issue.. LOL
Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 21 July 2013 20:53:24(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
In my case...it´s worthless to get delta controller when you can buy an MS2.
The Delta Control 66045 has a much better speed knob than the MS2, especially if you use Delta/MM locos only - just like the trusty ol' CU 6021.
The advantages of the MS2 come into play when you get programmable decoders, DCC, mfx or MM with more than one function - or more than 5 locos.

So for many the MS2 will probably be the better choice, but for some the DC 66045 will be a very good choice.

So this is just another area where it's good that we have a choice.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Goofy  
#11 Posted : 22 July 2013 08:08:39(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,020
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
In my case...it´s worthless to get delta controller when you can buy an MS2.
The Delta Control 66045 has a much better speed knob than the MS2, especially if you use Delta/MM locos only - just like the trusty ol' CU 6021.
The advantages of the MS2 come into play when you get programmable decoders, DCC, mfx or MM with more than one function - or more than 5 locos.

So for many the MS2 will probably be the better choice, but for some the DC 66045 will be a very good choice.

So this is just another area where it's good that we have a choice.


No...it´s not good idea to get used delta controllers when warranty don´t cover used products.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 22 July 2013 08:39:49(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
No...it´s not good idea to get used delta controllers when warranty don´t cover used products.
Used items from professional sellers come with warranty.
You can still get Delta Controls new from dealers with full warranty.

If you buy used from a private seller, you have to bear the risk of failures. I wouldn't take that risk with a CS2, but I would take it with a sturdy Delta Control.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline eroncelli  
#13 Posted : 22 July 2013 09:15:59(UTC)
eroncelli

Italy   
Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: Bergamo - italy
For just a minimal difference one can get an MS2, instead of a Delta controller: up-to-date digital system compared with an obsolete and out of production controller, with no function at all, means no chance for the latter
What about running a new mfx loco: I doubt you can run it with a Delta controller.

So, you either stay "analogic" or take advantage of new digital controllers that will last for years (MS2 SW is upgradable).
Offline RayF  
#14 Posted : 22 July 2013 09:31:23(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
My old 66045 was an excellent controller. The only reason I moved on to the 6021 was it's inability to reprogram addresses on decoders with no DIP switches, which somewhat limits its use with modern locos.

Joseph, my advice to you would be to get a MS2 controller, which allows you to expand your enjoyment by buying new locos in the future.

If you are set on buying the Delta controller then just be aware that any new loco you buy must be set to one of the Delta adresses by your dealer, or anyone you know with a more advanced controller. Alternatively you can buy used Delta locomotives which can be found at excellent prices on Ebay.

On the question about your Br89 tank loco, I converted one of mine in about ten minutes with a 66031 Delta decoder. If you are handy with a soldering iron it's a breeze. If you don't fancy soldering, then buy a used Br89 from a starter set, making sure it's one which already comes with a Delta decoder fitted. These are very common and can sometimes be found on ebay for about the price of a new decoder. Look for locos from sets 2915, 2916, 29205, 29206, 29145, 29146, or the locos sold on their own under the catalogue number 30000.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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H0
Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 22 July 2013 12:07:14(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: eroncelli Go to Quoted Post
What about running a new mfx loco: I doubt you can run it with a Delta controller.
You can run it with a Delta Control (provided the loco was programmed to one of the five addresses supported by the Delta Control, as Ray points out).

The MS2 is nice, but buggy. At club meetings we sometimes have problems running locos with DIP switches after running locos with other decoders (then we make a factory reset with the MS2 and unplug power for 10+ seconds, then register the loco with the DIP switches and off we go).

The MS2 uses approx. 160 virtual speed steps for all locos. With MM locos (14 speed steps only) you have to turn more than 10 virtual speed steps (more than 10 notches on the speed knob) to see a change of loco speed. Difficult to control the speed of the loco without looking at the display.

I take the MS2 to club meetings because it supports DCC, is light-weighted and compact.
But it still is a somewhat limited entry-level controller.
The Delta Control is limited, but it has a simple and efficient user interface and a first class speed knob. No need to look at the speed knob when changing the speed, so you can keep your eyes on the loco.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline jpsolinsky  
#16 Posted : 22 July 2013 15:06:07(UTC)
jpsolinsky

United States   
Joined: 20/07/2013(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: Towson, MD
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Why to get delta controllers when it´s much more fun to play with digital system?
In my case...it´s worthless to get delta controller when you can buy an MS2.
Even as collector you can always pick up an digital locomotivs with severals digital functions(sounds) to play.
Marklin don´t producing delta controller any more time...and i don´t think they do service too with delta controller if it brokes.
Warranty don´t excist to buy used products.
So if you buy an used delta controller...you loss money.


You are right of course,

My Marklin HO layout is small and I don't plan to or have room to expand so the older delta looked like a safe entry . If I had a large layout, I would transition to digital. PS I bought my 2nd Marklin steam loco from a very nice train shop in Stockholm ! Have a great mid somer!
Offline eroncelli  
#17 Posted : 22 July 2013 17:50:15(UTC)
eroncelli

Italy   
Joined: 16/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 124
Location: Bergamo - italy
Everything is possible, but consider anyway that a Delta controller has ONLY five available addesses: if you have more than 5 locos, you'll have more than one for each address and, thus, you can't control them at the same time on your layout.
And changing address in modern locos can't be done by the Delta control: you'll always need a friend with a MS1/CS1/MS2/CS2
Offline H0  
#18 Posted : 22 July 2013 21:14:59(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: eroncelli Go to Quoted Post
Everything is possible, but consider anyway that a Delta controller has ONLY five available addresses
It can be modified to support 15 addresses. Or 255 addresses with DDW/DDL.

Originally Posted by: eroncelli Go to Quoted Post
And changing address in modern locos can't be done by the Delta control: you'll always need a friend with a MS1/CS1/MS2/CS2
Or the infrared starter set controller, an ECoS, a CU 6021, an Intellibox.

I started digital MRR with a Delta Control. Delta Control was fine for me with up to eight locos (two for each address).
Then I connected the Delta Control to a laptop PC with DDW to get 255 addresses and 5 functions per address.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Hoffmann  
#19 Posted : 23 July 2013 23:03:04(UTC)
Hoffmann

Canada   
Joined: 25/11/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,106
Location: Guelph, Ontario


Hi,,

I sell the Marklin # 6604 or # 66045 for US$ 19.00 all the time just E-mail me.

Regards Martin
marklin-eh
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