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Offline Jvt1  
#1 Posted : 17 June 2013 04:07:54(UTC)
Jvt1

Australia   
Joined: 04/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 55
G'day

Can a Viessmann 5232 braking module be operated in both directions?

Does anyone have a diagram for the wiring of to do this?

Cheers

JVT
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Jvt1
Offline Tower  
#2 Posted : 29 June 2013 13:19:47(UTC)
Tower


Joined: 12/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 169
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Hi JVT,

I use my own braking modules to brake in both directions, but the principle remains the same.

The simplest way to do this is to do still have the two short isolated sections either side of the braking section, but instead of using the one as a transfer section and the other as a emergency stop section, connect the emergency stop wire to the transfer section as well. This will allow bi-directional braking, but your braking delay on your Loco's must be set very well or your they will jump the red light if they do not come to complete stop before coming into contact with the transfer section in front.

I hope this makes sense.

Regards

Leon
Offline bo  
#3 Posted : 04 July 2013 22:56:25(UTC)
bo

Ukraine   
Joined: 29/03/2013(UTC)
Posts: 35
Location: Ukraine
Hi JVT, Leon

I have marklin's braking module and it has 3 sections to setup (detection, stop & emergency stop). In this case I can't use the way as Leon said. But I am using iTrain software with my CS2. iTrain can do smooth stop but only with 2-3 detection sensors. So my decision was to setup up one braking module in one direction, and sensors in other direction.

BR,
Boris
Offline Jvt1  
#4 Posted : 06 July 2013 11:36:19(UTC)
Jvt1

Australia   
Joined: 04/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 55
Thank you for they help.

I just to decide what I want to do

JVT
Offline Jvt1  
#5 Posted : 17 August 2013 23:28:52(UTC)
Jvt1

Australia   
Joined: 04/05/2013(UTC)
Posts: 55
Originally Posted by: Tower Go to Quoted Post
Hi JVT,

I use my own braking modules to brake in both directions, but the principle remains the same.

The simplest way to do this is to do still have the two short isolated sections either side of the braking section, but instead of using the one as a transfer section and the other as a emergency stop section, connect the emergency stop wire to the transfer section as well. This will allow bi-directional braking, but your braking delay on your Loco's must be set very well or your they will jump the red light if they do not come to complete stop before coming into contact with the transfer section in front.

I hope this makes sense.

Regards

Leon


Hello Leon,

How do you wire your 5232? I am getting a constant clicking sound from my module and would like to check that it is wired correctly.

Regards

JVR
Offline Hackcell  
#6 Posted : 08 June 2015 04:39:10(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Hi there,

Did anybody achieved to have the braking module working in both directions on the same track?
Any info would be greatefuly appreciated!
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline Tower  
#7 Posted : 08 June 2015 18:35:31(UTC)
Tower


Joined: 12/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 169
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted by: Jvt1 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Tower Go to Quoted Post
Hi JVT,

I use my own braking modules to brake in both directions, but the principle remains the same.

The simplest way to do this is to do still have the two short isolated sections either side of the braking section, but instead of using the one as a transfer section and the other as a emergency stop section, connect the emergency stop wire to the transfer section as well. This will allow bi-directional braking, but your braking delay on your Loco's must be set very well or your they will jump the red light if they do not come to complete stop before coming into contact with the transfer section in front.

I hope this makes sense.

Regards

Leon


Hello Leon,

How do you wire your 5232? I am getting a constant clicking sound from my module and would like to check that it is wired correctly.

Regards

JVR


JVT, that sounds like the rely not latching.

How are you switching?

Constant power supply will cause this as supplied by a k84 or a normal switch.

Hope that helps.

Regards

Leon

Offline Tower  
#8 Posted : 08 June 2015 18:37:33(UTC)
Tower


Joined: 12/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 169
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Hi there,

Did anybody achieved to have the braking module working in both directions on the same track?
Any info would be greatefuly appreciated!


Hackcell,

I did it by doing away with the Emergency stop section and having two transition sections on either side instead.

Your Dec and Acc setings must be spot on though.

See my first post above

Regards
Offline Goofy  
#9 Posted : 08 June 2015 21:09:35(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,033
Originally Posted by: Jvt1 Go to Quoted Post
G'day

Can a Viessmann 5232 braking module be operated in both directions?

Does anyone have a diagram for the wiring of to do this?

Cheers

JVT


Yes,but the signal in the contrary traffic must been green.
Or else will the train stop in the red light.
Only with the asymmetric signal(Lenz ABC brake) do work,if the train arrives in the contrary way and the signal shows the red do works!
With Märklins MM is not working like that.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#10 Posted : 08 June 2015 21:27:39(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,276
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Only with the asymmetric signal(Lenz ABC brake) do work,if the train arrives in the contrary way and the signal shows the red do works!
With Märklins MM is not working like that.
With Märklin MM this works - provided you have two-rail tracks and use appropriate decoders (current ESU or Märklin decoders will do).
With three-rail tracks this works only if you never turn locos around.

A typical three-rail scenario involves circuit tracks and a relay. When a loco comes from the "wrong" direction, the circuit track will activate the relay and the braking module will be bypassed.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#11 Posted : 08 June 2015 21:38:59(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 9,033
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Only with the asymmetric signal(Lenz ABC brake) do work,if the train arrives in the contrary way and the signal shows the red do works!
With Märklins MM is not working like that.
With Märklin MM this works - provided you have two-rail tracks and use appropriate decoders (current ESU or Märklin decoders will do).
With three-rail tracks this works only if you never turn locos around.

A typical three-rail scenario involves circuit tracks and a relay. When a loco comes from the "wrong" direction, the circuit track will activate the relay and the braking module will be bypassed.


Is there any video to see this effect?
I have only see in one direction way with the MM and three rail.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 08 June 2015 22:24:54(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,276
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Is there any video to see this effect?
I don't have a video, but I have a link to the Bogobit manual:
http://bogobit.de/bremsm...t_classic_2_5_manual.pdf

Quote:
The brake voltage is basically just negative DC voltage. This working principle is known to märklin
users as the “märklin brake module” and to DCC users as “brake on dc”. It works with most of the
original märklin decoders and most compatible decoders. It also works with many DCC decoders,
some of which need special configuration (CV programming) to support it.
I think Viessmann 5232 uses the same principle and is therefore not limited to MM (or it wouldn't work with mfx because mfx is not MM either).

Quote:
In some DCC decoders the voltage polarity is evaluated to achieve direction dependent braking.
I don't know whether the factory-installed Trix decoders support this (CV 27 is undocumented and may not work), but MLD and MSD sold separately have CV 27 that allows direction dependent braking.
Two-rail, three-rail, MM, DCC, mfx - theoretically direction dependent braking can be used with any of these configurations (three-rail only if you put all locos on the track in the right direction and never turn them around - that's why it is usually not used on three-rail layouts).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#13 Posted : 09 June 2015 00:27:22(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,671
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Jvt1 Go to Quoted Post
How do you wire your 5232? I am getting a constant clicking sound from my module and would like to check that it is wired correctly.


Check the diagram I posted in Goofy's thread - https://www.marklin-user...ssmanns-brake-modul-5232

However......

Originally Posted by: Tower Go to Quoted Post
I did it by doing away with the Emergency stop section and having two transition sections on either side instead.


That was the only way I could get the 5232 working, so that is how I've set them up. I haven't tested the modules working in both directions, but I suspect it would work.
Offline Tower  
#14 Posted : 09 June 2015 18:56:58(UTC)
Tower


Joined: 12/02/2010(UTC)
Posts: 169
Location: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Jvt1 Go to Quoted Post
G'day

Can a Viessmann 5232 braking module be operated in both directions?

Does anyone have a diagram for the wiring of to do this?

Cheers

JVT


Yes,but the signal in the contrary traffic must been green.
Or else will the train stop in the red light.
Only with the asymmetric signal(Lenz ABC brake) do work,if the train arrives in the contrary way and the signal shows the red do works!
With Märklins MM is not working like that.



This is correct, in my setup the loco passes the back of a red signal to stop in front of the next red signal, I.E., my signals face each other and works in pairs which is probably not how it works in the real life.

I have played with reed switches set off center as well as the magnets setting them off being off center , in this scenario the train passes the back of a green signal, as soon as the magnet pass and activates the reed switch which is placed in the transition section directly after the green signal just passed, the relay switches the signal ahead (along with the one just passed) to red which initiates the braking impulse via the relay in the braking module.


Because the reed is off center, once the train gets going it will not turn the signal ahead tored again as it passes it.

You keep the signal green by placing a switch that disrupts the reed switch's trigger to the relay on the braking module.

The wiring is a nightmare and very hard to trouble shoot so in my new layout I have avoided this.
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