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Question 39103 BR 01 1057 smoke unit output not working (no voltage) - Advice needed what can cause this.
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Offline Janne75  
#1 Posted : 23 January 2013 18:14:30(UTC)
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Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hello all,

I sold my 39103 BR 01 1057 and now the buyer called me that everything else is working except the smoke unit output (no voltage). Is this an contact error, wiring problem or can one decoder output have fault when other work? Confused All lights, sound and driving is ok.

Have anyone some suggestions what can we do to fix this one? I had newer used that smoke unit and it was installed in Germany where I bought this loco as second hand from eBay.

I will give the buyer some price discount from the next loco if we dont get it fixed.

Thanks in advance from your kind help as always,
Janne from Finland
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline kbvrod  
#2 Posted : 23 January 2013 18:32:13(UTC)
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kbvrod

United States   
Joined: 23/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,597
Location: Beverly, MA
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Hello all,

I sold my 39103 BR 01 1057 and now the buyer called me that everything else is working except the smoke unit output (no voltage). Is this an contact error, wiring problem or can one decoder output have fault when other work? Confused All lights, sound and driving is ok.

Have anyone some suggestions what can we do to fix this one? I had newer used that smoke unit and it was installed in Germany where I bought this loco as second hand from eBay.

I will give the buyer some price discount from the next loco if we dont get it fixed.

Thanks in advance from your kind help as always,Janne from Finland


Hi Janne,all,
A couple of things:
Tell the buyer to remove the SU,clean the center 'pipe' add a few drops of smoke oil,apply current and to make sure it is functional.
Next:re-insert the unit and make sure it is seated properly(contact).
Then check the wiring from the contact to the decoder.

Let us know what happens!

Dr D

p.s. on one lok I had, excessive paint inside the smoke stack was not allowing a ground connection with the SU,some filing,bingo! Problem solved!

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Offline Janne75  
#3 Posted : 23 January 2013 23:06:45(UTC)
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Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Hello,

Thanks from your tips to solve this problem. The buyer has measured from the decoder output for SU that there wont come voltage when function for SU is activated. He also measured the wire from decoder output to SU contact and it seems to be ok.

I got an idea what could be wrong. At least with CS 2 it is possible to modify the function button operation. If that function button has been modified for example to duration function with time of 0 (zero) seconds or something like that? Then it wont work for sure even if everything is physically in working order.

So please all the Märklin digital decoder gurus help us solve this puzzle to get that function output to feed current/voltage again... Glare

If it would be an programmable decoder I would reset it, but as it is not some other tips would be great?

Greetings from Finland,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 24 January 2013 07:43:06(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,274
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
At least with CS 2 it is possible to modify the function button operation.
But not for this decoder. So if the buyer modified something, then it's only his problem and occurs only with his CS2. Does he use a CS2? With other controllers, there are other ways to fool yourself ...
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Janne75  
#5 Posted : 24 January 2013 07:56:35(UTC)
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Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
An quick update:

That 39103 smoke unit dont work in analog operation either as the buyer tested this also.
He can run it in digital and analog mode. Should SU work in analog mode in this 39103? If so then it should be continuously on and smoking change with voltage, right? Lights are working usually in many locomotives when operating in analog mode and the brightness will change depending of the voltage.

It is so hard to believe that there is some error that is not fixable. I have had many locomotives with some problems, but I have always been able to fix them. This is also a part of this winderful hobby and it is always great feeling to get them running ok again.

Any help would be great... Confused

Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline Janne75  
#6 Posted : 24 January 2013 07:59:51(UTC)
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Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
At least with CS 2 it is possible to modify the function button operation.
But not for this decoder. So if the buyer modified something, then it's only his problem and occurs only with his CS2. Does he use a CS2? With other controllers, there are other ways to fool yourself ...


He use Mobile Station and not CS2. But the smoke unit dont work in analog mode either. I dont know if it should or not? I have asked the buyer to check this one from locomotive instructions.

Janne

Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline H0  
#7 Posted : 24 January 2013 08:10:17(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,274
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
But the smoke unit dont work in analog mode either. I dont know if it should or not?
It should be on in analogue mode (with those old mouse piano decoders, F1 is always on in analogue mode (that's why some of those locos do not use F1)).

Each function output has its own transistor. And this transistor may have died (or may have been dead from the factory).

Paint between boiler and SU may cause problems, paint between boiler and loco frame may cause problems.
If the buyer knows what he's doing and measured on the open loco between contact lid and frame, then paint should be no problem and probably the decoder output is dead.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Janne75  
#8 Posted : 24 January 2013 09:10:14(UTC)
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Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,550
Location: Finland
He has measured everything and also from the decoder output. No voltage. I hope he has measured against proper ground contact though. Otherwise there can not be voltage. Transistor fault can`t be fixed, right?

Thank you Tom again from your help!
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
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Offline H0  
#9 Posted : 24 January 2013 09:25:00(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,274
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
Transistor fault can`t be fixed, right?
Some experts buy new transistors and replace them (I couldn't do it).
Most likely it's the output transistor, but it could be another problem (defect of the PCB, defect of the decoder chip).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#10 Posted : 24 January 2013 22:31:50(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,146
Location: Paris, France
Hi Janne
Chances for the unit being faulty from Märklin factory is close to zero as they test it by inserting a simulator that lights ON when OK.
Measuring the output transistor is tricky: if you short it with the loco frame, you kill it.

The transistor replacement is not easy: I did it on my Grossbekohlungs crane. It worked for a while but died again. Reason: poor thermal contact between the new transistor and the PCB. On top of this they are not regular transistors but some kind of very low voltage drop FET transistors

Apart from paint in the hole where the Seute unit is plugged 2 tricks happen often:
- the contact blade is bent (down or side ways)
- the curled wire at the bottom of the Seute smoke unit needs bending so as to make sure it will make contact with the contact blade (Märklin is very insistant on this).

Bonne chance
Jean
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