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tekin65		#1 Posted : 16 January 2010 22:48:00(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Hi, A friend of mine is reporting a strange problem with CS2 and needs help. Here's the problem: he have a Trix steamer and a Roco electric both equipped with Uhlenbrock decoders. They both run fine with Trix MS. But when he attaches the CS2 to the layout, Roco runs erratically, starts running and stops on its own, sometimes not responding the commands at all. Trix loco on the other hand starts running loose at a certain point on the layout and calms down after a while, only to repeat the same thing at the same point. When it is running loose it is not reponding to commands (i.e. lights off or on). Any ideas? Cem. PS: Roco have the decoder soldered and Trix have a 21 pin socket.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Bigdaddynz		#2 Posted : 16 January 2010 23:33:44(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,665 Location: New Zealand		Cem, have you tried them with your CS2?
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tekin65		#3 Posted : 16 January 2010 23:49:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Hi David, No, not yet. But them working with Trix MS without any problems indicates something wrong with the CS2. Maybe it's a decoder set-up thing. Strange enough these are the only two having problems among other Uhlenbrock installed locos. Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Bigdaddynz		#4 Posted : 17 January 2010 00:06:56(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,665 Location: New Zealand		My 39223 E194 runs rather erratically around my layout. Measuring the track voltage output by the CS1 shows the voltage fluctuating quite a bit. Because the 60va transformer I was using had at one time failed and been repaired, I swapped it for a 50va transformer I have. The loco's behaviour was even worse with the 50va transformer, with it moving about 2 feet, then stopping, then moving again. With the 60va, it stutters a bit, but does go around without stopping. I'm hoping an upgrade to v3.0 of the CS1, together with its stabilised power supply, will fix the loco problem. Every other loco I have runs fine. The 39223 has one of the old C-Sine motors. I'm wondering whether your problem might be related to voltage sensitivity. Edited by user 20 January 2010 01:05:46(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Goofy		#5 Posted : 17 January 2010 00:13:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		I have heard about,that Uhlenbrocks locodecoder is not good by using them. CS2 are perhaps not handle with defaults decoder who has bad quality...? I never use Uhlenbrocks locodecoder.
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supermoee		#6 Posted : 17 January 2010 18:31:54(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 31/05/2007(UTC) Posts: 534		Hello, Probably the Uhlenbrock decoders were disturbed by the mfx signal of the CS. If it is like this, it is the failure of the decoders and not of the CS. rgds Stephan
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tekin65		#7 Posted : 17 January 2010 18:36:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Goofy wrote: CS2 are perhaps not handle with defaults decoder who has bad quality...? I never use Uhlenbrocks locodecoder. Goofy, I use Uhlenbrock a lot and never had any problems as such. In fact for me their decoders are one of the best; affordable and durable. After all; those particular locos show no problems with Trix MS. David hi, voltage might indeed be the source of the problem. I will visit him in the days to come so I can check the issue. Thanks for your help. Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Goofy		#8 Posted : 17 January 2010 23:32:15(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		tekin65 wrote: David hi, voltage might indeed be the source of the problem. I will visit him in the days to come so I can check the issue. Thanks for your help. Cem. Here is an good tip about voltage on the tracks: N-scale:12-14 volt HO-scale:16-18 volts O and I scale:20-22 volts I´m not sure if there is possible to adjusts voltage at CS2...
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Purellum		#9 Posted : 17 January 2010 23:45:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,505 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Quote: Originally posted by Goofy: Here is an good tip about voltage on the tracks: N-scale:12-14 volt HO-scale:16-18 volts O and I scale:20-22 volts That is not correct. Märklin H0 and 1-gauge runs on the same controllers Per.
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Goofy		#10 Posted : 17 January 2010 23:45:18(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		tekin65 wrote: Goofy, I use Uhlenbrock a lot and never had any problems as such. In fact for me their decoders are one of the best; affordable and durable. After all; those particular locos show no problems with Trix MS. Cem. Sure if you write so... Not at all Uhlenbrocks decoder will been in function! Many swedish customer did had problem with Uhlenbrocks decoder,so they did switched over to either ESU or and ZIMO!
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Goofy		#11 Posted : 17 January 2010 23:56:08(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		Purellum wrote: That is not correct. Märklin H0 and 1-gauge runs on the same controllers Per. It was an recommends from digital specialist about voltage on the tracks,which i did pick up by writing this! Marklins big scale locomotivs needs more voltage,by handle with bigger motor. At Trix N-scale the voltage must been lesser than HO-scale,because of theirs smaller motor and lighting bulbs too for 12-14 volts. So Trix feeder box for N-scale is not the same as in HO-scale. If you have to much voltage at the tracks,you will burned out decoder and motor too if not less there is protecting at decoder against to much voltage by shut of decoder.
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Purellum		#12 Posted : 18 January 2010 00:11:58(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,505 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		This topic is about a CS2. What you are saying about 1-gauge, H0 and TRIX MS is not correct. Per.
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Bigdaddynz		#13 Posted : 18 January 2010 00:15:23(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC) Posts: 18,665 Location: New Zealand		Cem, I should also add that my 39223 works fine with a MS and a 6021! Edited by user 20 January 2010 01:04:58(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Goofy		#14 Posted : 18 January 2010 18:33:52(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		Purellum wrote: This topic is about a CS2. What you are saying about 1-gauge, H0 and TRIX MS is not correct. Per. What´s difference...??? Digital is digital.
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Purellum		#15 Posted : 18 January 2010 20:08:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC) Posts: 3,505 Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse		Quote: What´s difference...??? Digital is digital. Exactly, there is no difference, not even in the voltage You goofed up agian Per.
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jeehring		#16 Posted : 19 January 2010 04:37:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		CS2 PROBLEM AGAIN ! That reminds me tabloïd titles relating scandals In such a case, why immediately be so suspicious about the CS2 ? It doesn't look like something surely coming from CS2.... why not the decoder ? or the layout ( was it on the same layout as the one with MS Trix ?)? or the connection between CS2 and layout (polarity, is there a capacity for "noise reducing" somewhere ? etc...), or the user himself ( does he know how to use CS2 ? etc...) ? Or many things else... The first thing he should try is re-registering the loks once on the CS2, and programming the decoders with CS2 (adress)! I remind something : I know someone who had Viessman & Uhlenbrock decoders. He didn't pay attention to the fact that his decoders were multi protocole DCC/Selectrix . When he bought the MS Trix he made the programming and then....everything was OK for him everything works ! It tooks 2 months just after buying another decoder (DCC) untill he notices that he was running with Selectrix protocole while he thought that he was running DCC... When programming decoders he did it involuntarily ( a matter of default values and multimode selection, or something like that...) The MS Trix is also multiprotocole DCC/Selectrix. When you run selectrix loks with DCC stations , it gives similar erratic behaviour, stop & go or "creeping" with noise, etc... Same sometimes when running with any wrong protocole...
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tekin65		#17 Posted : 19 January 2010 09:18:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Goofy wrote: Sure if you write so... Not at all Uhlenbrocks decoder will been in function! Many swedish customer did had problem with Uhlenbrocks decoder,so they did switched over to either ESU or and ZIMO! Goof, Do you have any locos with Uhlenbrock? I suppose not. I have. I don't care what your natives report; here I am and I do report NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER WITH UHLENBROCK DECODERS. That's my choice, that's my experience. If you have any hands-on experience, talk. Otherwise shut-up! Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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tekin65		#18 Posted : 19 January 2010 09:21:04(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		jeehring wrote: CS2 PROBLEM AGAIN ! In such a case, why immediately be so suspicious about the CS2 ? Hi, Surely there's many things that might have gone wrong. I don't really know what though. Because my friend reported that all was fine with Trix MS I thought it should be CS2. Strange enough now he says the Trix loco started to function normally. It probably an electrical thing. We'll see ... Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Goofy		#19 Posted : 19 January 2010 10:34:06(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		tekin65 wrote: Goof, Do you have any locos with Uhlenbrock? I suppose not. I have. I don't care what your natives report; here I am and I do report NO PROBLEMS WHATSOEVER WITH UHLENBROCK DECODERS. That's my choice, that's my experience. If you have any hands-on experience, talk. Otherwise shut-up! Cem. It´s the results i did pick up from another forum in Sweden!!! Another member in this topic side did wrote Uhlenbrocks decoder perhaps is wrong standing position (DCC or Sx).
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tekin65		#20 Posted : 19 January 2010 12:52:19(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Goofy wrote: It´s the results i did pick up from another forum in Sweden!!! I don't care where you get your ideas from, just don't litter topics with second-hand ideas; if you have any experience with the said products, your comments are welcome. Otherwise go buy yourself a CS2 and a few Uhlenbrocks and test them. Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Goofy		#21 Posted : 19 January 2010 20:23:59(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		tekin65 wrote: I don't care where you get your ideas from, just don't litter topics with second-hand ideas; if you have any experience with the said products, your comments are welcome. Otherwise go buy yourself a CS2 and a few Uhlenbrocks and test them. Cem. ...??? It´s not second hand ideas! It´s an fact which severals digital users did had problems with Uhlenbrocks decoder!
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tekin65		#22 Posted : 19 January 2010 22:27:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Goofy wrote: ...??? It´s not second hand ideas! It´s an fact which severals digital users did had problems with Uhlenbrocks decoder! Uhmmm, Let's see ... I say I didn't have any problems with Uhlenbrock decoders. Have you had any? And please stop adding those smileys, they can get very annoying. Also please notice that I say "please"! Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Goofy		#23 Posted : 20 January 2010 00:07:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		tekin65 wrote: Uhmmm, Let's see ... I say I didn't have any problems with Uhlenbrock decoders. Have you had any? And please stop adding those smileys, they can get very annoying. Also please notice that I say "please"! Cem. And why do you think it´s CS2 which you did start an topic and not about Uhlenbrocks decoder...??? It´s not necessary that Uhlenbrocks decoder will works for CS2! It could been wrong set at decoder too!!!
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Fredrik		#24 Posted : 20 January 2010 00:26:12(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 13/07/2004(UTC) Posts: 642		Goofy wrote: And why do you think it´s CS2 which you did start an topic and not about Uhlenbrocks decoder...??? It´s not necessary that Uhlenbrocks decoder will works for CS2! It could been wrong set at decoder too!!! @Goofy: He asked you nicely NOT to use smileys - then it's unneccesary and unpolite to do so! Especially the smiley: can be a really annoying. @Goofy and @Tekin: Both of you may be right! It may be a CS2 problem and it may be a Uhlenbrock decoder problem. Based on Tekin's knowledge the U* decoder works fine - but in this case in combination with CS2 -> implies it's for him a CS2 problem. Based on Goofy's knowledge the U* decoder doesn't work properly -> implies for him it's a U* decoder problem. It could be both!! Better try and find a solution of the problem - or verify what the problem really is - than nagging about which of the 2 items may cause it...
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Hemmerich		#25 Posted : 20 January 2010 01:57:53(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 15/04/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,734 Location: ,		- Edited by user 21 November 2010 02:14:17(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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river6109		#26 Posted : 20 January 2010 02:28:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC) Posts: 14,728 Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square		Cem, I had similar problems and still have with ESU decoders. I'm using a MS. I've noticed, if a loco goes over a certain spot e.g and creates a short for a second, for some reason the pulse signal gets interrupted and looses its command, as you described the loco is running without a driver. One thing does'nt happen with my locos running erratic except Märklin decoder related locos (60902)taking off, when they should'nt, again when a short has occured. Its not an answer or solution. John
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tekin65		#27 Posted : 20 January 2010 07:24:07(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Hemmerich wrote: Someone could really wonder about this thread. A discussion is going on (somehow wildly) and the creator has not even specified WHICH Uhlenbrock decoder/s is/are not working properly with the CS-II; neither what Uhlenbrock specified for those decoder/s in relation to its/their functionality with the CS-II. Lutz, Someone might wonder, but let that someone wonder as long as he wishes; if he's wondering that means he didn't get the zest of the topic. The creator of this thread says that U* installed locos run nicely with Trix MS and fail to do so with CS2. Now, if CS2 is fully DCC compatible it should have no problems with U* decoders, and I guess you're not arguing against the quality of U* decoders; the model of decoder is irrelevant to the viewer/commenter as long as it is known that they are multiprototkol (just like all other U* decoders; for more info visit uhlenbrock.de). Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Goofy		#28 Posted : 20 January 2010 10:26:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		Notice here that Marklin did also said,that some others manefacture decoders is not working probably with CS2! There was some problems with old CS1 too! That´s way i´m opion about Uhlenbrocks decoder. Cem... Try to change out decoder either to ESU or and Lenz. See after if anyone of them works good with CS2 in DCC! If not else...then in case fault at CS2!
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tekin65		#29 Posted : 20 January 2010 10:59:22(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Goofy wrote: Cem... Try to change out decoder either to ESU or and Lenz. See after if anyone of them works good with CS2 in DCC! If not else...then in case fault at CS2! Goofy, I think that's what we will also try. But I think this is all about a faulty track wiring; strange thing is only one loco is behaving strange when all other U* installed (same decoder by the way) locos are working fine. Really strange. Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Goofy		#30 Posted : 20 January 2010 19:50:35(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		tekin65 wrote: Goofy, I think that's what we will also try. But I think this is all about a faulty track wiring; strange thing is only one loco is behaving strange when all other U* installed (same decoder by the way) locos are working fine. Really strange. Cem. Bad contact at this locomotiv...??? Check copper contactfeeder at locomotiv. It could been bad bending on the wheels!
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Webmaster		#31 Posted : 20 January 2010 21:14:31(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/07/2001(UTC) Posts: 11,161		The Roco is converted with an Uhlenbrock? Roco for Märklin used to have Lenz 930 for a while, and this one had problems similar to your description in a mixed protocol environment. But since you say it works with Trix MS, this one is ruled out... Are you running DCC with CS2 for these 2 troublesome locos? Sorry for my stupid question, but I did not really understand the protocol used... And which Uhlenbrock decoder is it? Do you have the article number? And which locos are they? I also have converted loks that behave strangely and don't "obey" the digital signal... Bad ground return is one likely possible cause since I've experienced that with one loco... The M BR85 with ESU Loksound is my "victim" for this... It's also worth to consider that if it works with a "clean" DCC signal, but not with multiprotocol, the decoder can be out of the "comfort zone", ie a member of a bad production batch not meeting the design specs or such... If you use NEM decoder sockets, it should be easy to change the decoder with a one that you know works just to pinpoint the problem..
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tekin65		#32 Posted : 20 January 2010 23:05:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Webmaster wrote: The Roco is converted with an Uhlenbrock? Are you running DCC with CS2 for these 2 troublesome locos? Sorry for my stupid question, but I did not really understand the protocol used... And which Uhlenbrock decoder is it? Do you have the article number? And which locos are they? Juhan hi, Yes, Roco loco is converted with U* decoder; hard-wiring. The system is 2 rail, U* decoder is 76420. Loco is E91; old production. Like Goofy, I suspect dirty wheels and dirty track, but this still leaves Trix MS question open. Just a few more days and we'll get to the bottom of this. Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Goofy		#33 Posted : 21 January 2010 10:25:27(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		tekin65 wrote: Juhan hi, Like Goofy, I suspect dirty wheels and dirty track, but this still leaves Trix MS question open. Just a few more days and we'll get to the bottom of this. Cem. I have never wrote,that it should been dirty wheels or and dirty track!
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tekin65		#34 Posted : 21 January 2010 10:31:37(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Goofy wrote: I have never wrote,that it should been dirty wheels or and dirty track! No, but you mentioned "bad contact"; this includes dirty wheels too I guess? Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Goofy		#35 Posted : 21 January 2010 13:38:42(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		tekin65 wrote: No, but you mentioned "bad contact"; this includes dirty wheels too I guess? Cem. Nope! I did wrote about copperfeeder contact at wheels.
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tekin65		#36 Posted : 21 January 2010 15:24:05(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Goofy wrote: Nope! I did wrote about copperfeeder contact at wheels. Ok then, I'll make sure to check contact-shoe connection too. Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Goofy		#37 Posted : 25 January 2010 10:24:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		Hi Cem! Have you and yours friend found the problem yet...?
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tekin65		#38 Posted : 25 January 2010 10:46:36(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		Goofy wrote: Hi Cem! Have you and yours friend found the problem yet...? Goofy hi, Not yet, although I explained him what to do to check. It looks like an electrical problem, nothing to do with CS2; my thread heading was a bit premature I think. I'll keep you posted. Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Goofy		#39 Posted : 25 January 2010 13:38:41(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		I´m thinking about PC board on the Rocos locomotiv. You did wrote decoder soldered at PC board,so it sounds(!) like perhaps bad contact. Try to check aftre that too!
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jeehring		#40 Posted : 25 January 2010 13:54:11(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC) Posts: 2,786 Location: ,		Decoder 76420 doesn't seem to be multiprotocole with selectrix ( motorola/dcc only)
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tekin65		#41 Posted : 25 January 2010 15:52:25(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 11/10/2006(UTC) Posts: 2,151 Location: istanbul,		jeehring wrote: Decoder 76420 doesn't seem to be multiprotocole with selectrix ( motorola/dcc only) Yes you're right. Cem.
		3 rail: C-track with CS2 2 rail: Trix C-track with Trix MS - K.Bay., DRG, DR, DB, SBB, TCDD Now all eras but no ICE My loco inventory for the interested
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Goofy		#42 Posted : 31 January 2010 12:05:43(UTC) Retweet
Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC) Posts: 9,020		Did you and yours friend found the problem yet...???
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