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Offline RayF  
#1 Posted : 16 December 2008 20:52:22(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Hi,

How do you rig up catenary when you have a pair of curved turnouts linking R1 and R2 on a curve? It seems to me that there's not enough room for masts on the middle bit.

I've looked in the catalogue and it shows how to do a simple curved turnout, but not a pair. I could buy the catenary handbook, but then I'd have to wait a couple of weeks for the answer to this question.

Anyone help?

Thanks,

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline RayF  
#2 Posted : 17 December 2008 09:57:19(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Come on guys! A few of you have commented on the lack of catenary in my layout pictures. One of you must know the answer to this!

Seriously, this problem has me stumped. Does anyone know how to do this? I have been looking at the possibility of using the cross span for three tracks, but I don't think this is right.

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#3 Posted : 17 December 2008 10:50:00(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,669
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Ray,
As I haven't yet rigged up my catenary (I have all the bits ready) I don't know the answer to your question, and may end up with a similar problem. Although my track section for catenary is mostly R4 and R5, with some curved points.
regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#4 Posted : 17 December 2008 12:16:26(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Ray, it's a pain in the butt!!

Or at least with the older 7000 series catenary, which is what I have. You can't fit a mast in the middle of the turnout branch, so you have to use the 7004 fastening kit (basically a set of screws, nuts and washers) to join the 2 wires together.

So, you have a mast at the entry point to each turnout, and you continue the wires and masts around the outside and inside curves as normal. You run 2 wires, 1 each from each of the entry masts, and they go over the turnout branch that connects the 2 curves together. Because you cant get a mast into that area, you have to use the screws and nuts from the 7004 kit to join the wires together. The entry masts should be enough to hold every thing up.

I'm not sure how this would work with the Viessmann / new Marklin catenary. Try to get hold of the new Marklin Catenary Book, item no 03902 for the English version, that may help.
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Offline RayF  
#5 Posted : 17 December 2008 12:27:37(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
David, thanks. I'm thinking that it can be done as you say, but using one (or two) of these to link up the middle bit.

UserPostedImage

Would that work?

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline mike c  
#6 Posted : 17 December 2008 13:44:14(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,899
Location: Montreal, QC
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas
<br />David, thanks. I'm thinking that it can be done as you say, but using one (or two) of these to link up the middle bit.

UserPostedImage

Would that work?

Ray


The spacing on the mast shown is set for two parallel tracks. I doubt that this would work for an intermediate distance. I suppose that you could install one of the multi rail masts over the split with one anchor for each mainline and a third one for the interchange.
Maerklin's latest Track (Layout) Manual should clearly show how this should be done, including the necessary part numbers.

The 70000 kit included the segments needed to set up a passing siding. I don't know what modifications you would need to make for a similar set up but with a complete dual loop using 4 curved switches.

Hopefully somebody can quote or scan the appropriate page from the layout manual.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline RayF  
#7 Posted : 17 December 2008 14:14:27(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks, Mike. The info on the 74106 mast says that the outer arm is adjustable to 117.5mm. Presumably that means that the arm slides in and out along the cross bar.

I had originally been thinking on the same lines as your suggestion, using a three track cross span, but I am thinking now that the spacing of the masts might end up too far apart, leaving the masts very far from the edges of the track. It should still work though.

I can see myself ordering the catenary handbook!

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline TTRExpress  
#8 Posted : 17 December 2008 15:55:44(UTC)
TTRExpress

United States   
Joined: 06/04/2006(UTC)
Posts: 655
Hi Ray,

Interesting question. I think I may have a solution. You can connect more than one set of overhead wire to a single mast. You will have to make sure that you use an isolating connector between the wires. This link describes how it is done, albeit that it is in Z-scale. I think this would work nicely in HO.

http://www.guidetozscale.com/html/catenary.html
Regards (a Scot in Wisconsin),

Maurice [ETE, TTRCA, IG-TRIX Express, Maerklin-Insider & TRIX Profi-Club]
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Offline mike c  
#9 Posted : 18 December 2008 02:21:05(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,899
Location: Montreal, QC
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by TTRExpress
<br />Hi Ray,

Interesting question. I think I may have a solution. You can connect more than one set of overhead wire to a single mast. You will have to make sure that you use an isolating connector between the wires. This link describes how it is done, albeit that it is in Z-scale. I think this would work nicely in HO.

http://www.guidetozscale.com/html/catenary.html


I was looking through the instructions for the 70000 Catenary Set and it gives a list of which numbers are used to set up catenary for one of the basic start sets with passing loop (ie 29859).

There is a diagram that shows the set-up for two parallel ovals with a curved switch flyover, but it does not list the parts required.
The masts would mount at the start of the switch, two wires would go from there, one on the inner and one on the outer track. A mast would be situated on the section of track between the two curved switches, and this would be connected to the mast at the end of the opposing switch. Pretty simple, in fact. On the outer and innermost tracks, you would simply install masts where required, also connected to the masts at the end of the switch tracks.
If you intended to operate two isolated circuits in order to have independent analog control of each track, you would have to incorporate sn isolated section between the two tracks.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 18 December 2008 15:54:43(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Mike, thanks for that.

I was trying to make sense of it and then realised that this is for the other way of making the cross-over, with a piece of track between the two curved turnouts. On my layout I use the alternative arrangement, with the turnouts connected directly to each other.

UserPostedImage

If all else fails I'll rip up my track and redesign the whole thing, but I'm reluctant to do this because it's all neatly filled in with ballast between the tracks.

UserPostedImage

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline simonchuff  
#11 Posted : 18 December 2008 17:54:11(UTC)
simonchuff


Joined: 07/01/2007(UTC)
Posts: 8
Location: watlington,
The 7000 series wires are of sufficiently heavy gauge metal to bridge the gap when secured with the 7004 nuts, bolts and washers. I have two sets of curved ponts rigged up in this way and they work fine, with masts at the convergence of the tracks on the points.
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Offline john black  
#12 Posted : 18 December 2008 19:00:40(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Originally posted by RayPayas
<br />If all else fails I'll rip up my track and redesign the whole thing, but I'm reluctant
to do this because it's all neatly filled in with ballast between the tracks.

[:0][:0][:0] - please NO, Ray !!! Don't touch your beautiful track - it looks just great Cool

Look, I had similar trouble with that f***ing catenary ... [xx(]
In the end some fiddling with cutter, pliers and soldering iron did the trick - bingo biggrin
Well, it was a bit more of work - but that way I never had to touch my track [^]
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

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Offline prjbourge  
#13 Posted : 02 January 2009 21:57:55(UTC)
prjbourge


Joined: 07/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 46
Location: ,
Hi,
I had the same problem but I finally managed to work it out. you need a combination of 2 elements, because the Märklin 74106 won't do : the rail segments are too close together. a 74131 is required : it is versatile enough.

I put a picture to show how I made on my layout :

[img]UserPostedImage[/img]
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Offline RayF  
#14 Posted : 02 January 2009 22:27:56(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks, Pierre, that picture is very helpful! I think I'll have to buy a selection of different elements before I get it sorted out.

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline prjbourge  
#15 Posted : 02 January 2009 23:51:45(UTC)
prjbourge


Joined: 07/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 46
Location: ,
Glad if I could help you, Ray (actually, it took me a lot of time to find this combination, which is strange because the R1/R2 interconnexion is pictured is all basic Märklin documentation but never with a catenary...).
As you can see, I had to use 2 masts (bottom of picture), but I guess a more elegant design could be achieved by using a Viessmann reference 4161 (it is a 3-track version of the Märklin 74106 concept) but the product is currently flagged as non available on the Viessmann web site.
An alternative is to use a second 74131 (I also tried this solution : works, a little bit trickier to tune because the segments are VERY close). The look is better because it is more homogeneous to use identical masts on a section.
Whatever you choose to do, remember that you will need to build specific segments, because standard ones won't suffice [:I]
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Offline RayF  
#16 Posted : 02 January 2009 23:55:57(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,840
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Quote:
[size=1" face="Verdana" id="quote]quote:Whatever you choose to do, remember that you will need to build specific segments, because standard ones won't suffice


Yes thanks Pierre, I guessed as much!

Ray
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline prjbourge  
#17 Posted : 18 January 2009 21:01:30(UTC)
prjbourge


Joined: 07/04/2008(UTC)
Posts: 46
Location: ,
Hi,
biggrin
you can have an idea of what it looks like "live", I made a very short video.

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