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CS1 and signal 76495 - how to program this signal with CS1 ?
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Offline vimo  
#1 Posted : 14 January 2024 09:23:59(UTC)
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vimo


Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Belgium
Hi all
I've had a CS1 for quite a few years running 10 trains at a time and so far very happy with it.
I wanted to enhance the layout and bought a new 76495 signal. I configured the address with the dip switches and connected to the signal. The main signal works OK switching from red to green. But the forward signal on the mast remains dark. I also cannot find how to configure the address of the next signal so the forward signal on the mast is in sync.
I also tried to go into DCC mode (dip 10) but the menus don't change to allow me to configure the signal features (delays, fading, etc)
Can someone help me program the signal on my CS1 ?
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#2 Posted : 14 January 2024 14:15:03(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: vimo Go to Quoted Post
Hi all
I've had a CS1 for quite a few years running 10 trains at a time and so far very happy with it.
I wanted to enhance the layout and bought a new 76495 signal. I configured the address with the dip switches and connected to the signal. The main signal works OK switching from red to green. But the forward signal on the mast remains dark. I also cannot find how to configure the address of the next signal so the forward signal on the mast is in sync.
I also tried to go into DCC mode (dip 10) but the menus don't change to allow me to configure the signal features (delays, fading, etc)
Can someone help me program the signal on my CS1 ?

Hi
The signals 76495 are simple ones combined with an advance signal.
You can select the FIRST address using the switches. Le second address, used by the signal to drive the advance signal is the FOLLOWING one (No choice here)
The advance signal will remain OFF when the main signal is on red. This is on purpose.

So on a multiple signals line, using 76495 - as an example -:
- the first signal address will be 12 and its advance signal will be 13
- the next signal address will be 13 and its advance signal will be 14
- the next signal address will be 14 and its advance signal will be 15

Notice that the advance signal shares the SAME address as the next main signal it emulates

So on the CS1, just configure the main signals and ignore the advance signals as they are taken care of by Märklin

Cheers
Jean

My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
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Offline vimo  
#3 Posted : 14 January 2024 14:21:14(UTC)
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vimo


Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Belgium
Merci ! I will give that a try :-)
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Offline vimo  
#4 Posted : 14 January 2024 18:17:22(UTC)
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vimo


Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Belgium
I tried but it does not work.
The 76495 signal is followed by a 76391 signal.
The 76391 signal already had address 221, so I set the 76495 signal address with DIP switches to 220. I expected that to be in line with your explanation.
I tried connecting both to the main track and also to the programming track of my CS 1.
In both cases, I am able to switch the colors of each signal, but even when the next signal 76391 is set to green, I still do not see anything on the forward signal on the mast of the 76495 signal as I had expected.
Did I miss something ?
I also do not find how to set the CVs on the 76495 signal. Not indispensable, but I'd like to if possible.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#5 Posted : 14 January 2024 19:18:31(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Originally Posted by: vimo Go to Quoted Post
In both cases, I am able to switch the colors of each signal, but even when the next signal 76391 is set to green, I still do not see anything on the forward signal on the mast of the 76495 signal as I had expected.

On a 76495, when the main signal is red, then the advance signal of the SAME mast is OFF: no need for the train driver to know the next's signal position because he must stop no matter what.
Cheers
Jean

My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
My Layout
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Offline vimo  
#6 Posted : 14 January 2024 19:40:09(UTC)
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vimo


Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Belgium
Originally Posted by: JohnjeanB Go to Quoted Post
Hi
Originally Posted by: vimo Go to Quoted Post
In both cases, I am able to switch the colors of each signal, but even when the next signal 76391 is set to green, I still do not see anything on the forward signal on the mast of the 76495 signal as I had expected.

On a 76495, when the main signal is red, then the advance signal of the SAME mast is OFF: no need for the train driver to know the next's signal position because he must stop no matter what.
Cheers
Jean



Yes, I understood that part. As I wrote above, my main and next signals are set to GREEN but the 76495 forward signal on mast remains dark.


20240114_190856[1].jpg20240114_190821[1].jpg

The pictures show the two signals. Note that the 76495 signal also has a connected forward signal 76481 also shown in the picture, but that one can be ignored in this context.
As you can see, the 76495 (left side) is either green or red and the 76391 (right side) is green but in both cases, the advance signal is always off. Since the main signal (76495) is green I expected the advance signal on 76495 to also be green/green.

Edited by user 15 January 2024 14:40:42(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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Offline vimo  
#7 Posted : 17 January 2024 21:18:46(UTC)
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vimo


Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Belgium
Another strange thing that I see is that when I configure the new 76495 signal on my CS1, it works fine with the address that I set on the DIP switches. The main signal on the mast turns red and green.
When I turn off the CS1, then later turn it back on and go back to the signal panel, instead of the signal I see a big F letter.
Since I am unable to see the forward signal on the mast turning on and that I keep losing the signal config on the CS1, I am now wondering if the signal is defective or the CS1 is defective.
Anyone have some advice ?
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#8 Posted : 17 January 2024 22:32:23(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,109
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: vimo Go to Quoted Post
I am now wondering if the signal is defective or the CS1 is defective.
Anyone have some advice ?


There is a third possibility which I think is more likely - neither are defective, but what you are observing is an incompatibility between the signal and the cs1. Marklin have effectively abandoned the cs1 and there have been some changes in the mfx protocol with the cs2 and cs3, which are the control stations that are current when your signal was released as a product. Tweaks in the way things work will often render older items incompatible.
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#9 Posted : 18 January 2024 10:27:59(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Hi
Originally Posted by: vimo Go to Quoted Post
When I turn off the CS1, then later turn it back on and go back to the signal panel, instead of the signal I see a big F letter.
Since I am unable to see the forward signal on the mast turning on and that I keep losing the signal config on the CS1, I am now wondering if the signal is defective or the CS1 is defective.


One possibility is that the CS1 power down and power up are not done properly or with good batteries. No brutal power-off without first pushing on the stop button and wait until it is good to cut-off power.
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
My Layout
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#10 Posted : 18 January 2024 11:43:39(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: vimo Go to Quoted Post
I also tried to go into DCC mode (dip 10) but the menus don't change to allow me to configure the signal features (delays, fading, etc)


Unless you have upgraded your CS1 with the ESU Reloaded upgrade pack, your CS1 does not support DCC.

Have you read the manual?

https://static.maerklin....49ec7d3c641591098867.pdf


"Basically, 2 addresses (pairs of buttons) are required to
switch the 76496 and 76497 signals. The second address is
assigned automatically as a sequential address. This sequen-
tial address cannot be selected at will"

Seems that isn't applicable to your 76495, i.e. it only uses 1 address?

76495 seems to be a 2 aspect signal - Hp0 / Vr0 and Hp1 / Vr1, so probably only 1 address

Yes, I realise you have to set the address of the following signal.

"The address for the distant signal (CV55 / CV56) and the signal
type (CV46) must correspond to the address and the signal type
for the home signal following it. This is the only way to guarantee
the correct reproduction of the signal aspect."

Has this been set?

Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
There is a third possibility which I think is more likely - neither are defective, but what you are observing is an incompatibility between the signal and the cs1.........Tweaks in the way things work will often render older items incompatible.


I suspect Alan has hit the nail on the head, as your CS1 probably doesn't support the signal you're using. The manual only talks about programming the signal with a CS2 or CS3.
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Offline vimo  
#11 Posted : 18 January 2024 22:13:44(UTC)
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vimo


Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Belgium
Hi all
yes I read the 76495 manual :-) especially since it was a new signal for me.
Indeed, I had also noticed that the 2 addresses was not mentioned for 74695, but as Jean suggested it, I tried it, with no success so far.
Yes, I do have an updated CS1, which is the 2.0.4 version update that Marklin provided at the time (not available on their website any more).
I had also noticed that only CS2 and CS3 are mentioned in the 74695 manual, but I didn't think that it automatically meant that my signal is nearly useless with a CS1.
I do see CVs on my CS1 for some locomotives, but I do not see them for the 76495 signal in my CS1 menus. I did try flipping the DIP 10 to on but no difference.
If anyone knows where those signal CVs are on a CS1, please tell me !

I did ask my dealer about my issues and he is not aware of a limitation. He stopped using a CS1 for his own layout years ago (he's a dealer .... no surprise) so in fact he doesn't know.
If your suspicion is correct that the signal is simply not supported on CS1, then I find it really painful to have to fork out another few 100s € just for that.

Last question, the CS3 has been out now for almost 10 years. I know that nobody has a crystal ball, but considering the evolutionary trend in technology, it is getting ancient. I would feel even more stupid if I bought a CS3 now and then see a CS4 coming out a few months later. Anyone have any insights or advice ?
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Offline JohnjeanB  
#12 Posted : 18 January 2024 22:43:42(UTC)
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JohnjeanB

France   
Joined: 04/02/2011(UTC)
Posts: 3,130
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: vimo Go to Quoted Post
Hi all
yes I read the 76495 manual :-) especially since it was a new signal for me.
Indeed, I had also noticed that the 2 addresses was not mentioned for 74695, but as Jean suggested it, I tried it, with no success so far.
Yes, I do have an updated CS1, which is the 2.0.4 version update that Marklin provided at the time (not available on their website any more).
I had also noticed that only CS2 and CS3 are mentioned in the 74695 manual, but I didn't think that it automatically meant that my signal is nearly useless with a CS1.
I do see CVs on my CS1 for some locomotives, but I do not see them for the 76495 signal in my CS1 menus. I did try flipping the DIP 10 to on but no difference.
If anyone knows where those signal CVs are on a CS1, please tell me !

I did ask my dealer about my issues and he is not aware of a limitation. He stopped using a CS1 for his own layout years ago (he's a dealer .... no surprise) so in fact he doesn't know.
If your suspicion is correct that the signal is simply not supported on CS1, then I find it really painful to have to fork out another few 100s € just for that.

Last question, the CS3 has been out now for almost 10 years. I know that nobody has a crystal ball, but considering the evolutionary trend in technology, it is getting ancient. I would feel even more stupid if I bought a CS3 now and then see a CS4 coming out a few months later. Anyone have any insights or advice ?

Hi
The 76495 has indeed 2 addresses BUT only one can be set The second one is just following.
I also mentionned that the advance signal ONLY LIGHTS UP when the main signal is GREEN.
Please read page 11 of the manual, on the right and rather at the top: a new FOLLOWING address follows one address used for 76495 and two for more complex signals

The CS1 is NOT the cause of your issue (provided you use MM2 so watch the switch settings on the signal especially sw10).

Chances are the CS3 will be replaced by a new unit:
- the 60215 was released in 2011
- the 60216 was released in 2016 (8 years later)

So the propect of a new CS is likely to come in a few years but sooner if components become anavailable or if there is a demand for a new unit.
Later if all components are available and if the "old" CS3 continues selling well
PRTGM = Please Read The GodDamnedManual LOL
Cheers
Jean
My layout videos
latest vid
marshalling yard
My Layout
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Offline vimo  
#13 Posted : 19 January 2024 08:04:19(UTC)
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vimo


Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 26
Location: Belgium
I really don't want to get into an argument here. I am only seeking help.
Let me recap.
I have a CS1 with the 2.0.4 update.
I have a 76391 signal with address 221 that works fine on the CS1.
Now I added a 76495 signal with address 220 set on the DIP switches that I am able to switch from green to red on the CS1.
This ought to match the desired configuration.
BUT ... the advance signal on the 76495 is not lighting up when both signals are green (see second picture above).
I also do not find any menu that allows me to change the CVs for the 76495 signal on the CS1.
So, if you agree that the setup I mention here is correct, then what might have I done wrong that prevents the advance signal from lighting and the CVs menu from being visible ?
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#14 Posted : 19 January 2024 11:10:46(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
Do you know anyone who has either a CS2 or CS3 who can test your signal for you to eliminate that as an issue.

If the signal works OK with a CS2 / CS3 then that suggests there's an issue with using it with a CS1.

I haven't checked my CS1 v2.0.4 unit, but I think in the System area there may be an option to directly write a value to a CV. Whether this works with a signal address I don't know.
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#15 Posted : 19 January 2024 11:23:29(UTC)
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Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,665
Location: New Zealand
OK, I fired my CS1 up. Click on the CS1 icon at the top then click on the Spanner icon, 2nd from the bottom on the lefthand icon bar. On Setup1 tab you have the ability to read and write to CV's.

Whether this works with a signal decoder, I don't know but a simple read request on one of the CV's mentioned in the signal manual will tell you whether it works or not.

The other option if you manage to find someone with a CS2/CS3 is to get them to program the signal for you. I'd start with your dealer.

Another option is to email Marklin for help - email service at maerklin dot de.

Edited by user 20 January 2024 04:07:09(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified
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