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37485 CL 120 loco decoder question - loco specific decoder?
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Offline Donb  
#1 Posted : 31 January 2019 00:18:53(UTC)
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Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Fraser Valley
Hi all,

I am considering a 37485 Class 120 'Vorserie', but I have questions about the decoder.
My plan is to convert it to a DCC decoder like mSD/3 as it appears to have a 21 MTC interface (according to posts in the past), and not the 8 pole plug interface as per the parts drawing.
However, I have also read that this stock decoder is 'loco specific' and cannot be easily subbed out due to something about AUX 3 and AUX 4 being un-amplified, with the 'amplification' being done by curcuitry on the loco board.
Can someone explain what this means? Is there a straightforward way to convert it to DCC without having to rip out the loco board? (My command station - Viess Commander- prefers DCC).

Cheers!
Best Regards,
Don
___________________________________________________________________________________
IB 2 and MFU modul, C track and Z scale, mostly DB/DR and SBB, SJ
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Offline ktsolias  
#2 Posted : 31 January 2019 07:53:54(UTC)
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ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 612
Location: Athens
Please publish a photo of the decoder

costas
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Offline H0  
#3 Posted : 31 January 2019 12:16:27(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,338
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: Donb Go to Quoted Post
However, I have also read that this stock decoder is 'loco specific' and cannot be easily subbed out due to something about AUX 3 and AUX 4 being un-amplified, with the 'amplification' being done by curcuitry on the loco board.
Where did you read that?
With the MSD/3 you can configure AUX3 and AUX4 to be amplified or unamplified.

In the days of the MSD you had to choose either the MSD Spezial (NEM-compatible) or the regular MSD (not NEM-compatible).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#4 Posted : 31 January 2019 12:18:07(UTC)
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kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,211
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Donb Go to Quoted Post
Hi all,

I am considering a 37485 Class 120 'Vorserie', but I have questions about the decoder.
My plan is to convert it to a DCC decoder like mSD/3 as it appears to have a 21 MTC interface (according to posts in the past), and not the 8 pole plug interface as per the parts drawing.
However, I have also read that this stock decoder is 'loco specific' and cannot be easily subbed out due to something about AUX 3 and AUX 4 being un-amplified, with the 'amplification' being done by curcuitry on the loco board.
Can someone explain what this means? Is there a straightforward way to convert it to DCC without having to rip out the loco board? (My command station - Viess Commander- prefers DCC).

Cheers!


ESU provide two forms of the adapter board, one without the 'amplifiers' and one with em (really a couple of transistors.

You also need to know if the version of the decoder is the NEM 21 pin or the NMRA 21 pin. The NEM version doesn't have the 'amplifier' on the decoder, so to drive lamps and the like you need them on the adapter board. The NMRA version has them on the decoder so you don't need them on the adapter board, but i think this version will have difficulty driving a C-Sine motor as I believe it uses the Aux3 and Aux4 outputs to drive it, hence why there are no 'amplifiers' on the NEM version (because this standard came from Marklin/ESU when they came up with the C-Sine motor).

There is more information on this web page.
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Offline Donb  
#5 Posted : 31 January 2019 14:10:30(UTC)
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Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Fraser Valley
Thanks kiwiAlan, that web link answered all my questions re the Aux 3,4 issue. Excellent article.

Thanks Tom, I couldn't locate the post that talked about the loco board. May have been on Stummi's. Ive been doing a lot of searches re this loco. Thanks for pointing out that the mSD/3 has configureable aux ports.

My questions have been answered once again here!
Best Regards,
Don
___________________________________________________________________________________
IB 2 and MFU modul, C track and Z scale, mostly DB/DR and SBB, SJ
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Offline Donb  
#6 Posted : 01 February 2019 03:16:25(UTC)
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Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Fraser Valley
I'm looking at how to set Aux 3,4 to logic level outputs with the mDecodertoolmDT3 on a mSD/3 decoder,

Are the 'Pos' and 'neg' levels meaning Amplified (16v) and non-amplified (logic) (-5v) respectively?

2019-01-31 (2).png
Best Regards,
Don
___________________________________________________________________________________
IB 2 and MFU modul, C track and Z scale, mostly DB/DR and SBB, SJ
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Offline ktsolias  
#7 Posted : 01 February 2019 11:48:45(UTC)
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ktsolias

Greece   
Joined: 01/05/2016(UTC)
Posts: 612
Location: Athens
Pos level means that the function is working when is on and neg when is off

You can't see from there if the function is amplified or not.

You need a decoder tester to do that

From there put in one function key the output 3 or 4 and if is amplified this will working.

But so far I have't seen any mSD/3 with logic 3 and 4

Cos
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Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 01 February 2019 12:09:09(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,338
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
But so far I have't seen any mSD/3 with logic 3 and 4
This can be set for every MSD/3.
When CV 51 is set to 24 then AUX3/4 will be logic level outputs.
I don't know where this setting is hidden in the decoder programmer software.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline Donb  
#9 Posted : 01 February 2019 14:07:04(UTC)
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Donb

Canada   
Joined: 03/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 289
Location: Fraser Valley
Originally Posted by: ktsolias Go to Quoted Post
Pos level means that the function is working when is on and neg when is off

You can't see from there if the function is amplified or not.

You need a decoder tester to do that

From there put in one function key the output 3 or 4 and if is amplified this will working.

But so far I have't seen any mSD/3 with logic 3 and 4

Cos


Thanks Cos,

What does 'pos edge' and 'Neg edge' do?

Cheers!

Best Regards,
Don
___________________________________________________________________________________
IB 2 and MFU modul, C track and Z scale, mostly DB/DR and SBB, SJ
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