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Offline Unholz  
#551 Posted : 02 May 2016 13:42:52(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post
I also found that they don't encourage overseas buyers. I contacted Loki Depot Horz in English and very question was answered in Germany. I stayed in Luzern for a couple of days but did not go to the HAG shop, I glad I did not now.


Harry, you certainly didn't miss anything. The owner of that shop is rather strange - he doesn't even ship anything to Swiss residents of other places than his own little town (!) and refuses to accept credit cards. Crying Huh

BTW, I forgot the "best" unit in my above message...: http://trains.wipertech....n=asc&criteriaEVU=FS
Offline jcrtrains  
#552 Posted : 02 May 2016 16:28:55(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Yes - there is far to big a focus on these fantasy models. They need to focus on prototypes. They should revisit the Re6/6 catalogue properly instead of the feeble effort of last year.
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Offline Harryv40  
#553 Posted : 02 May 2016 19:49:18(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Wilshire
I feel it's very sad when companies like HAG sell there soul and move into Toy Trains. I could understand if they wish to broaden the range of items they sell but if they decide to throw several different coloured tins of paint over a body shell and they think it will sell at a high price someone should wake them up!

I have always wanted to own a HAG loco, a model I would expect to see running somewhere on or has run on the Switzerland rail network. They also need to realise that the queue of people willing to pay over 500sfr for one poorly manufactured loco is not very long and getting shorter!

Offline Harryv40  
#554 Posted : 02 May 2016 19:51:16(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Wilshire
I feel it's very sad when companies like HAG sell there soul and move into Toy Trains. I could understand if they wish to broaden the range of items they sell but if they decide to throw several different coloured tins of paint over a body shell and they think it will sell at a high price someone should wake them up!

I have always wanted to own a HAG loco, a model I would expect to see running somewhere on or has run on the Switzerland rail network. They also need to realise that the queue of people willing to pay over 500sfr for one poorly manufactured loco is not very long and getting shorter!

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Offline taliesin  
#555 Posted : 02 May 2016 20:30:36(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
What has been touched on is that this shop is not interested in the English speaking market which appears to mirror the policy of Hag itself nowadays, a quick google of the estimated number of English speaking people in the world compared to the number of German speaking is quite revealing and to me does not appear to be a very good business plan. Surely it is not too hard to supply instructions in English like they used to, and have the option of reading the website in English.
I know many companies seem to want to maximise the number of liveries available for each body shell these days including fantasy liveries, do not forget the old company had some as well but I cannot help thinking the current companies problems are partly self inflicted, lucky that there is still a good supply of older models on the second hand market, cheers Rob
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Online rmsailor  
#556 Posted : 03 May 2016 11:43:52(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 569
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
The irony of these models is that as they probably have fairly limited production runs, they will end up as collectors items commanding high prices. An analogous situation happened in America where the Lionel company produced a pink train for girls. Commercially it was a total failure but it is now much sought after.

Bob M.
Offline H0  
#557 Posted : 03 May 2016 11:57:26(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,250
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: rmsailor Go to Quoted Post
The irony of these models is that as they probably have fairly limited production runs, they will end up as collectors items commanding high prices.
It's always a matter of demand and supply.
It seems the "production runs" for these test samples are always 1. Items cannot be rarer than that, but they have to be famous to create demand.

Don't throw it away if you can sell it.
I skip the opportunity to buy one of those truly rare items.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Harryv40  
#558 Posted : 04 May 2016 07:24:38(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Wilshire
Further update on HAG.
I had to contact them with a question about my new loco and what should be in the box. A very quick reply told me, in English, that they don't supply spare parts direct to customers anymore and ask my dealer?
Also just to let you know, no red tag, no bag of addons, just the loco without any info drawing showing part numbers!
Offline mike c  
#559 Posted : 04 May 2016 08:20:42(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
@Harryv40

Which new locomotive?

I think that Hag stopped including the red tag sometime around 1998-2000. My locomotives acquired since then did not come with the little tag.
Not every locomotive has a bag of add-ons. Matter of fact, most add-ons, like the closed snowplough and tubing is sold separately.
Hag has never included a parts list or exploded diagram. A parts list is available at the hag.ch website.
Some dealers may still have the classic parts catalog with the old numbers.

Your locomotive should have come with the following:

Locomotive, plastic bag, foam insert, info sheet about motor (some models), info sheet about antennae and wipers (some models), info sheet about decoder (digital models), info sheet about electrical circuit (BDe 4/4). Some models (BDe 4/4) may contain a second pair of couplers which are often inserted into a little slit in the foam insert.

Here is a dealer offering some of the detail parts for some Hag models: http://www.tee-usa.com/store/hag-catalog.html

Regards

Mike C
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Offline mike c  
#560 Posted : 04 May 2016 08:23:02(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
I just saw photos on railcolor.net showing a few new Re 460 liveries for the Gottardo tunnel opening.

http://www.railcolor.net...id=8842&action=dview

http://www.railcolor.net...5666_60&action=image

I guess that Hag will likely be releasing some of these as special models

Regards

Mike C
Offline taliesin  
#561 Posted : 05 May 2016 12:43:21(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
re460_abb-gottardo2016.jpg
Available from the 31st of May for chf750 according to the Hag website, cheers Rob
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Offline chrisisrang  
#562 Posted : 06 May 2016 05:53:05(UTC)
chrisisrang


Joined: 24/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 173
Location: Hong Kong
Hi!

I am not trying to defend the production of those obnoxious looking HAG Re 460s which are being sold through Loki Depot. Since someone has invested the money (and I guess Loki Depot is probably getting a good transfer price from HAG), it probably has some commercial value or why else would HAG produce these models. Having said that, I think someone has to be nuts to be buying those grotesque looking models Huh

However, we need to be fair to HAG because these models are certainly not their commercial production run available through the dealer network. Over the past 12 months, a number of excellent models have been produced by HAG. I can certainly vouch for the Re 456 26 060-20 Cendres+Métaux SA. The paint quality is almost flawless although purists will certainly come up some imperfection.

hag26060.jpg

and also the Re 460 produced on the 150th anniversary of Swiss Red Cross...

28401_32_HAG_EL_20160116_1_2_b.jpg

Cheers,

Chris
Offline taliesin  
#563 Posted : 06 May 2016 12:46:45(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
There are two or more possible scenarios here, if the shop owner has approached Hag with a large cheque and asked them to produce these models then good luck to Hag, the market does seem to be gradually contracting worldwide so any large sum of money is welcome, would Ferrari paint a car in these colours? they would if you paid them enough to make it worth their while.

However if this is a plan to try and increase sales then they really should take another look at their business plan, there appears to be less and less Hag Dealers worldwide now, exactly none in the UK now and their reluctance to embrace the english language can only be damaging, a quick google shows an estimated 110 million German speakers worldwide versus over one billion english speakers, it doesn't need a business guru to spell that one out.

I understand that they did not attend the latest annual trade show in Germany, why not? they have been dogged by rumours of quality control, why not show the world that you have got over them and give confidence to both existing and potential dealers and customers that all is well and that they can buy Hag knowing that they are still buying the best.

Nothing wrong in producing fantasy models for people waving large cheques but if it's part of a business plan to replace lost sales it feels like there are not too many rolls of the dice left, cheers Rob
Offline taliesin  
#564 Posted : 06 May 2016 13:43:57(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
A quick one for those in the know, are Hag fitting Faiveley pantographs onto the latest 460's? cheers Rob
Offline H0  
#565 Posted : 06 May 2016 14:19:16(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,250
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: taliesin Go to Quoted Post
I understand that they did not attend the latest annual trade show in Germany, why not?
A box at the trade fair is very expensive.
The high flying CHF makes HAG locos very expensive for people in Euro land.

HAG said they would concentrate on exhibitions in Switzerland.

Trade fairs and English documentation/web site were very important if they had export markets in their focus - which they currently don't have.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline taliesin  
#566 Posted : 06 May 2016 14:47:33(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: taliesin Go to Quoted Post
I understand that they did not attend the latest annual trade show in Germany, why not?
A box at the trade fair is very expensive.
The high flying CHF makes HAG locos very expensive for people in Euro land.

HAG said they would concentrate on exhibitions in Switzerland.

Trade fairs and English documentation/web site were very important if they had export markets in their focus - which they currently don't have.


The other side of the coin is that the strong CHF brings down the cost of attending this trade fair, however the eurozone is not the rest of the world, just a part of it, but good luck to them if they think Swiss sales only will sustain them, cheers Rob
Offline RayF  
#567 Posted : 06 May 2016 14:57:32(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
It seems to me that HAG have downsized themselves out of the global market.

There are many local "Cottage Industry" type Model rail companies in European countries who don't feel the need to go international, especially those who focus on local prototypes. HAG may be aiming to reduce their market exposure to one of these small companies.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Unholz  
#568 Posted : 06 May 2016 19:08:50(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: taliesin Go to Quoted Post
A quick one for those in the know, are Hag fitting Faiveley pantographs onto the latest 460's? cheers Rob


So far no, but they have spread a rumor that they are developing their own Faiveley ("better than the one available from Roco"). However, if this is just one of their usual ritualistic announcements and promises, it is likely that only the very young among our esteemed forum members will be able to view first samples of this product... Bored ThumbDown

Offline taliesin  
#569 Posted : 06 May 2016 19:54:27(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: taliesin Go to Quoted Post
A quick one for those in the know, are Hag fitting Faiveley pantographs onto the latest 460's? cheers Rob


So far no, but they have spread a rumor that they are developing their own Faiveley ("better than the one available from Roco"). However, if this is just one of their usual ritualistic announcements and promises, it is likely that only the very young among our esteemed forum members will be able to view first samples of this product... Bored ThumbDown



The young Swiss forum members apparently,
Offline taliesin  
#570 Posted : 06 May 2016 22:34:42(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
re460_creditsuisse-gottardo2016.jpg

re460_mondaine-gottardo2016.jpg

A couple more on the website, again CHF750 for the versions with sound, cheers Rob
Offline mike c  
#571 Posted : 17 May 2016 05:01:33(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
I saw this listing on ebay today: http://www.ebay.com/itm/...60-RGZ-555-/301955963033
http://i.ebayimg.com/ima...AOSwcL5XNhOk/s-l1600.jpg

It appears to me that the Sud-Ost-Bahn writing is too large or not in the font that it should be.
The pantograph is not a Hag original and the isolators on the roof (air blast circuitbreaker) have been repainted.

I had previously seen this version, which I presume to be from Wabu or similar:
http://www.forum.hag-inf...352d4d2da9b4ee6427320fef

and Stefan Unholz has this as the rare original version (official) by Hag: http://162.129.247.246/f...09&-field=133(1).109

Does anybody have more info on this version?

Regards

Mike C
Offline Unholz  
#572 Posted : 17 May 2016 05:51:31(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Mike, the model currently listed on Ebay must be some kind of custom-made "repaint", almost surely not an original HAG product. You have already correctly mentioned the features that distinguish it from the rare pre-series units with the SÜD-OST-BAHN lettering.
Offline mike c  
#573 Posted : 25 May 2016 02:49:09(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
Here we go with the strange Hag Models again… ebay seller The-Embasador has listed a pair of Maerklin Ae 6/6 on ebay.de. One has the number 11403 and the crest of Ticino and the second has the number 11403 and the correct crest of Schwyz. As far as I can tell, both models are Hag, but the motor block on each model states "Maerklin Made In Western Germany".
I was not aware that Hag used any Maerklin motor blocks in the manufacture of their models. The bogies seem to be original Hag/Buehler.
Are these retrofitted with Maerklin parts or were they originally like this?

http://www.ebay.de/itm/M...BB-Nr-3050-/231954864698
http://www.ebay.de/itm/M...BB-Nr-3050-/231954859740

Regards

Mike C
Offline Unholz  
#574 Posted : 25 May 2016 05:59:00(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Mike, definitely some kind of kitbash attempt - "anything goes". Wink
Offline Harryv40  
#575 Posted : 25 May 2016 13:11:47(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Wilshire
Hi everyone
I am considering buying a HAG loco off of eBay, this is the model.

HAG 098 SBB CFF Re 4/4 BT VORALPEN EXPRESS 50 JAHRE AC

I have asked the seller if it has a chip for Marklin and he does not know.

So the question is does it have a chip or what is the cost and issues of getting one fitted?

Regards
Harry
Offline Unholz  
#576 Posted : 25 May 2016 13:47:54(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Harry, if your expression "chip" stands for decoder, then the answer is: no, if it is in the standard condition as built in 1994, then it will not have one. Of course, a decoder can be installed, but you might also have to exchange the older AC field magnet with the DC permanent magnet type.
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Offline Harryv40  
#577 Posted : 25 May 2016 15:47:41(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Wilshire
Yes
Sorry chip equals decoder.
Thanks for the reply I have asked the seller for the full model number especially as the description of the item is new unused.
Offline mike c  
#578 Posted : 26 May 2016 09:19:35(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
Most likely you will have to replace the field magnet, replace the light bulbs with ones that can handle the digital voltage and if I remember correctly, you will have to rewire the lights so that they are powered directly from the decoder, as the original setup had the main lead coming from the reverse unit circuit board and the return was via the metal chassis of the locomotive.

There are a number of the BT Re 4/4 KTU (aka Re 456) still available at Swiss shops and online. You may be able to find a digital one at a good price and save yourself the work and cost of having to convert an analog one.

For example, Star Rail has a BT Re 456 Vogele Digital on ricardo.ch for 350 CHF as well as the VAE model
https://www.ricardo.ch/k...2-voegele/v/an800890484/
https://www.ricardo.ch/k...lpen-expr/v/an800890490/

If you calculate the added price of the decoder, the magnet, the bulbs, the wires and the labour to convert the model, the 350 CHF price tag is reasonable compared to 200-250 for an analog model.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline jcrtrains  
#579 Posted : 05 June 2016 17:58:41(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
I received my Gotthard Re 4/4 today. Sadly, the new Hag is still having problems painting a basic roof line. I am debating whether I go through the hassle of returning it.

Offline Unholz  
#580 Posted : 05 June 2016 18:07:21(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
I can fully understand your concerns regarding the hassle. However, they will never learn without continued pressure from the customers.

On the other hand, I am a bit surprised to hear that you have already received a (white?) Gotthard Re 4/4. The few people who ordered them here in Switzerland are still waiting for theirs, because the company still prefers to churn out fantasy nonsense such as this here:
http://www.roundhouse.ch...euheiten/HAG_Spezial.htm
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Offline jcrtrains  
#581 Posted : 05 June 2016 19:01:00(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Yes - I am actually two for two on this shipment. I also received a Re 460. I am DC analogue. The new 460 simply sits there with the lights on. I do not fully blame Hag for this one, but it does go into my ' digital is garbage' collection of thoughts. Sadly with two, I will return them both.

Unfortunately, with the painting risks and the lack of a DC analogue purchase option on new Hag, I am really only left with buying old inventory or used off auction sites. Sad, but true.
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Offline taliesin  
#582 Posted : 05 June 2016 19:46:04(UTC)
taliesin

United Kingdom   
Joined: 30/03/2014(UTC)
Posts: 170
Location: ENGLAND, Cambridge
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
Yes - I am actually two for two on this shipment. I also received a Re 460. I am DC analogue. The new 460 simply sits there with the lights on. I do not fully blame Hag for this one, but it does go into my ' digital is garbage' collection of thoughts. Sadly with two, I will return them both.

Unfortunately, with the painting risks and the lack of a DC analogue purchase option on new Hag, I am really only left with buying old inventory or used off auction sites. Sad, but true.


Yes it is a real shame but I am only looking for existing models now, either old stock or S/H, the Gottardo's look nice on the website but my money stays in the bank, cheers Rob
Offline Harryv40  
#583 Posted : 05 June 2016 22:32:18(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Wilshire
I have just managed to purchase my first HAG loco, it was a 'proper' one, old stock from a shop in Switzerland and I love it. The new ones appear to be build and made by someone trying to make a quick buck! I visited Switzerland recently for a week spent travelling on the trains and I never saw a gold loco or wagon. Also I did see the White Gotthard Re4/4 waiting in Lecerne, but the black, red and various other colours being issued by the New HAG did not appear!

A shame what's happened but in these days it's to be expected, any new C***, don't worry about the quality as long as the money rolls in.
Offline Harryv40  
#584 Posted : 05 June 2016 22:33:39(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Wilshire
I have just managed to purchase my first HAG loco, it was a 'proper' one, old stock from a shop in Switzerland and I love it. The new ones appear to be build and made by someone trying to make a quick buck! I visited Switzerland recently for a week spent travelling on the trains and I never saw a gold loco or wagon. Also I did see the White Gotthard Re4/4 waiting in Lecerne, but the black, red and various other colours being issued by the New HAG did not appear!

A shame what's happened but in these days it's to be expected, any new C**p, don't worry about the quality as long as the money rolls in.
Offline Unholz  
#585 Posted : 21 June 2016 14:59:53(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
The "New HAG" company has launched a "tempest in a teapot" regarding falsified Gottardo sets. As with the sets that are being marketed by the competitors Marklin and Roco, these contain one white Re 460 loco in the Gottardo jubilee livery and one Re 420, also white with the Gottardo decorations.

Apparently, the Swiss dealer Stucki ( http://www.zugkraft-stucki.ch ) has recently sold such sets in HAG boxes, but they do not seem to come from "New HAG" but from a so far unknown source. Their painting and printing quality is supposed to be worse than what we have become accustomed to in the last three and a half years. Flapper The official statement by the manufacturer in German language can be read here:
http://forum.hag.ch/inde...Gottardo-von-Stucki-pdf/
Offline jcrtrains  
#586 Posted : 21 June 2016 16:22:27(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Yes - a turn of events that leaves me completely stunned. My complaint in this thread is for one of these ones from Stucki. I am quite amazed at this turn of events. Given they seem to be one of the last stockists of Hag, I am very surprised at this. I expect that Hag's determination to distribute only through Loki for items like this created the situation. I will be corresponding with Hag on this topic shortly as I am not clear if they understand the dealer restrictions around Loki such as not shipping outside Switzerland.

They have however offered a full refund.
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Offline mike c  
#587 Posted : 21 June 2016 18:11:00(UTC)
mike c

Canada   
Joined: 28/11/2007(UTC)
Posts: 7,865
Location: Montreal, QC
I did not know that the Hag "Gottardo" models had been commissioned by Loki Depot Horw. I assumed that they were a production of Hag in cooperation with SBB and the sponsors. It seems that Loki Horw allowed other dealers to place orders for these models, but according to my sources, they would not allow Stucki to carry these models. It seems that Stucki had a number of models painted in the same livery and marketed them as the same model. It will be interesting to see how Hag responds to this situation and what remedy will be available to customers who might have bought the Stucki model believing that they were getting the actual Hag model.

I wonder where Stucki might have obtained these locomotives that they used for these repaints? It would seem that they likely came from Hag, so there may be more to this than meets the eye.

We will have to wait to see what happens.

Are all of the Gottardo 2016 models commissioned by Loki Depot Horw or can they be obtained from any Hag dealer? I am speaking here of the Mondaine, ABB, Mobiliar and Credit Suisse models.

Regards

Mike C
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Offline Unholz  
#588 Posted : 21 June 2016 19:59:48(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: mike c Go to Quoted Post

I wonder where Stucki might have obtained these locomotives that they used for these repaints? It would seem that they likely came from Hag, so there may be more to this than meets the eye. (...)

Are all of the Gottardo 2016 models commissioned by Loki Depot Horw or can they be obtained from any Hag dealer? I am speaking here of the Mondaine, ABB, Mobiliar and Credit Suisse models.


Since we can speak freely here, I can offer the remark that my first impression was also that this entire story sounds rather "unbelievable". I am neither on friendly terms with Mr. Stucki nor with Mr. Niggli (Loki-Depot Horw), but I think I have some insight and knowledge with regard to the Swiss model train scene. Therefore, it seems that there are quite a few reasons for the current absurd situation:

- It was a massive offense by "New HAG" towards the majority of Swiss HAG dealers that the manufacturer awarded exclusive distribution rights concerning the "Gottardo" sets to Loki-Depot Horw. This constant practice of "favoritism" and privileging certain people ("All customers are equal, but some are more equal than others") has enraged many formerly loyal HAG followers, and I have reason to believe that Mr. Stucki was/is one of them.

- However, the said company practice is understandable to a certain extent, because apparently Mr. Niggli (Loki-Depot Horw) pre-financed the entire Gottardo set production. He also appears to have generously pumped money into the "New HAG" outfit (they might need it - who knows...? Unsure ).

- "New HAG" and Loki-Depot Horw indeed allowed and invited other dealers to order such sets from Loki-Depot Horw. However and naturally, most of them declined (I assume also Mr. Stucki), but a few (among them Roundhouse at Zürich or EYRO at Interlaken or "C-Gleis-Plus") accepted the conditions imposed on or tied up with this unusual sales method.

- Until fairly recently, Mr. Stucki was one of the most faithful and successful promotors and sellers of HAG products in Switzerland. According to statements distributed today by devotees of Mr. Urech, his dealer status has been immediately revoked following the affair mentioned above. He is not the first dealer to be "punished" in this manner... Glare

- I share Mike's feeling that the basic models used for this "repaint/falsification" stunt must have come from "New HAG". The published pictures support this assumption. However, I do not think that the (re-)painting and printing was done in Switzerland.

- We have the expression in German that "the air is getting thin". From numerous discussions with dealers and modelers throughout Switzerland, I am increasingly getting the impression that "New HAG's" management has by now run so far into a maze full of problems that it might be kind of difficult to find an easy way out. Just too bad...

- And no, the other Gottardo 2016 models mentioned by Mike will be available from any HAG dealer - whenever they may appear on the shelves...
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Offline jcrtrains  
#589 Posted : 21 June 2016 20:36:46(UTC)
jcrtrains

Canada   
Joined: 31/10/2009(UTC)
Posts: 597
Location: Toronto, Ontario
This event is certainly unfortunate. While Hag's approach to dealer relations is an underlying cause of the issue, the dealer took upon himself to misrepresent the product. He has offered to take it back for a refund and I will be taking him up on the offer. In the end, nobody wins here especially the end customer. And for the record, now that I am having to do this after the release of the product, I believe the real items are all gone. Sad.
Offline Unholz  
#590 Posted : 21 June 2016 20:41:15(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: jcrtrains Go to Quoted Post
(...) now that I am having to do this after the release of the product, I believe the real items are all gone. Sad.


No, do not despair: BigGrin

- https://www.ricardo.ch/k...e-460-sbb/v/an822706136/
- https://www.ricardo.ch/k...-gottardo/v/an833869926/
- https://www.ricardo.ch/k...o-der-sbb/v/an833870138/
- http://bumoba.ch/sbb-lok...query=hag&results=57
Offline Unholz  
#591 Posted : 03 September 2016 16:44:56(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Perhaps a battered Re 6/6 that was involved in an accident or fell from the layout table? No, a current production HAG model freshly out of the box. Crying ThumbDown

UserPostedImage

Nice, eh? I just can't stop wondering what happened to their quality control.
Offline Moritz-BR365  
#592 Posted : 03 September 2016 17:29:37(UTC)
Moritz-BR365

Germany   
Joined: 02/04/2013(UTC)
Posts: 682
The painted mirror isn't nice, too.
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Offline river6109  
#593 Posted : 04 September 2016 14:26:30(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Perhaps a battered Re 6/6 that was involved in an accident or fell from the layout table? No, a current production HAG model freshly out of the box. Crying ThumbDown

UserPostedImage

Nice, eh? I just can't stop wondering what happened to their quality control.


Stefan, it looks like the bottom skirt is damaged as well.

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline Collector  
#594 Posted : 05 September 2016 21:09:42(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Ok, I admit I know NOTHING about HAG because I was never interested in any other trains than Marklin. That said I knew they are swiss made and supposedly excellent in quality.

The picture above kind of makes me think twice....

I was offered what is claimed to be a NEW digital HAG Re 4/4 II for AC for 270 euros. Is there something fishy here anything I should know about?

Did the Swiss franc crash and did I miss that news? It seems these are normally 600-700 or so?

DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline Unholz  
#595 Posted : 06 September 2016 05:58:36(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Hi Collector,

There must not be anything fishy about a new digital HAG Re 4/4 II for 270 Euros - it might simply be a bargain, or the seller desperately needs cash, or he doesn't know the actual value, or it is an older model, etc. etc. You will either have to take the risk or leave it.

Just generally be careful with the currently produced new stuff which is being delivered in gray boxes. Here you will most likely find defects like in the picture.
Offline Collector  
#596 Posted : 06 September 2016 06:21:10(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Hi Collector,

There must not be anything fishy about a new digital HAG Re 4/4 II for 270 Euros - it might simply be a bargain, or the seller desperately needs cash, or he doesn't know the actual value, or it is an older model, etc. etc. You will either have to take the risk or leave it.

Just generally be careful with the currently produced new stuff which is being delivered in gray boxes. Here you will most likely find defects like in the picture.


Thanks,


I think the model is 4 years old or so. In a green box.

What happened to the company that the quality took a hit as per the pictures?


I am guessing that the warranty on the offer I got is exactly zero. Are parts available to fix things or do these use exotic motors etc?


Regards,

Mike
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline H0  
#597 Posted : 06 September 2016 08:08:52(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,250
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post
What happened to the company that the quality took a hit as per the pictures?
The short version: new owner, machinery moved to a new place, mostly new workforce, experienced workforce mostly gone.
You can find the long story on this forum - maybe this thread, maybe another.

I didn't get my hands on a model from the new company yet. Judging from the pictures not everything is good.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline Unholz  
#598 Posted : 06 September 2016 10:07:03(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post

I think the model is 4 years old or so. In a green box.

What happened to the company that the quality took a hit as per the pictures?

I am guessing that the warranty on the offer I got is exactly zero. Are parts available to fix things or do these use exotic motors etc?


Mike, a green/black/orange box is generally a good sign. Four years old would mean one of the last production runs of the "good old HAG company".

The rest is like Tom just said. Parts should not be a problem. One of the (few) good features of the current situation is that the new owner took over most of the spares.

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Offline Collector  
#599 Posted : 06 September 2016 10:58:07(UTC)
Collector


Joined: 17/08/2016(UTC)
Posts: 147
Location: Europe
Originally Posted by: Unholz Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Collector Go to Quoted Post

I think the model is 4 years old or so. In a green box.

What happened to the company that the quality took a hit as per the pictures?

I am guessing that the warranty on the offer I got is exactly zero. Are parts available to fix things or do these use exotic motors etc?


Mike, a green/black/orange box is generally a good sign. Four years old would mean one of the last production runs of the "good old HAG company".

The rest is like Tom just said. Parts should not be a problem. One of the (few) good features of the current situation is that the new owner took over most of the spares.




Can I conclude that for 270 it is a bargain then?
DRG/DB/SBB Epoche II/III/IV
Offline Unholz  
#600 Posted : 06 September 2016 13:49:01(UTC)
Unholz

Switzerland   
Joined: 29/07/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,389
Location: Switzerland
...if working and undamaged, then it's probably not overpriced. Wink Any details like running number or HAG catalog/model number available?
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