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Offline H0  
#101 Posted : 24 May 2016 10:13:13(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: mattj70 Go to Quoted Post
Marklin is 3 rail
This thread is in "General MRR".
Märklin is two-rail in gauge Z, gauge N, gauge H0, gauge 1, gauge 2m.
They make three-rail for gauge H0 (Märklin) and very few items for Trix Express. And Trix H0 three-rail items cannot run on Märklin three-rail tracks ...

Gauges 0 and 1 used to have three rails, but the third rail has vanished there.
N and Z never had a third rail.

If the three-rail system has so many advantages, why did it "survive" in H0 gauge only?
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#102 Posted : 24 May 2016 10:34:51(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: mattj70 Go to Quoted Post
Marklin is 3 rail
This thread is in "General MRR".
Märklin is two-rail in gauge Z, gauge N, gauge H0, gauge 1, gauge 2m.
They make three-rail for gauge H0 (Märklin) and very few items for Trix Express. And Trix H0 three-rail items cannot run on Märklin three-rail tracks ...

Gauges 0 and 1 used to have three rails, but the third rail has vanished there.
N and Z never had a third rail.

If the three-rail system has so many advantages, why did it "survive" in H0 gauge only?


That's a very good point, Tom.

Why did Marklin continue with 3 rail? I suspect it's because they were doing very well with it and didn't wan't to rock the boat. They always had one foot in the H0 2 rail market, intitially with the Hamo range and then afterwards when they bought out Trix. I suspect they have always kept an eye on how those models are selling compared to the 3 rail versions as an indicator of the popularity of the 3 rail system.

Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Markus Schild  
#103 Posted : 25 May 2016 10:35:12(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


Gauges 0 and 1 used to have three rails, but the third rail has vanished there.
N and Z never had a third rail.

If the three-rail system has so many advantages, why did it "survive" in H0 gauge only?


Hi Tom,

It was never widespread outside Spain, but IBERTREN had a 3-rail N-gauge System named IBERTREN 3N. In Spain it was a popular system.
I think the classic US three rail model-railroads like LIONEL are still "alive". Also in Europe MERKUR and ETS still offer 3-rail 0-gauge which are compatible with pre-war model-railroads.

Regards

Markus

Offline michelvr  
#104 Posted : 06 April 2018 02:56:02(UTC)
michelvr

Canada   
Joined: 06/07/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,287
I'm a little slow in the news department but I just learnt that the Fleischmann HO 2 rail is going the way of the Dinosaurs starting in 2019.

Now would be a good time to buy a Marklin coffee mug and ponder the future.

I say it looks good for Marklin, c’est bon, n’est-ce pas ?
Offline baggio  
#105 Posted : 06 April 2018 03:31:38(UTC)
baggio

Canada   
Joined: 21/09/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,729
Location: Toronto
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
I'm a little slow in the news department but I just learnt that the Fleischmann HO 2 rail is going the way of the Dinosaurs starting in 2019.

Now would be a good time to buy a Marklin coffee mug and ponder the future.

I say it looks good for Marklin, c’est bon, n’est-ce pas ?


It's never a good time when a major player hits the dust. Marklin may be next.

Marklin needs to make a more economical line, maybe go back to straight analogue as an alternative.

Marklin should develop a good dual track so as to be able to run 2 rail and 3 rail on the same track.
Offline MaerklinLife  
#106 Posted : 06 April 2018 06:31:21(UTC)
MaerklinLife


Joined: 03/02/2016(UTC)
Posts: 490
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Marklin needs to make a more economical line, maybe go back to straight analogue as an alternative.

I don't see the point in straight analogue. I don't think it would make anything cheaper. The price of a decoder is not much these days. My guess would be that only a very few new customers would be interested in analogue today. If anything, Märklin could offer models without sound and make them cheaper that way.

What I need from Märklin is more simplicity in the product line. The mess with two CS3's, link modules that has several names (some times it is called S88 LINK, L88 etc) and a generally bad level of documentation of the digital products. It does not help anybody.

I also need them to stop with the cheap 3-pole motor and pick a good 5-pole motor design. That way they can end the "motor lottery" that many customers complain about. That would be something.

I need to feel secure that the models I buy from Märklin runs well. Currently it is a lottery. I never worry about a Roco model. Only a very few of my models from Roco has had any problems.

That being said, later models from Märklin (within 2016, 2017) has been running well. So maybe they are doing something. If that is the case: Let people know! Enlighten us!

Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Marklin should develop a good dual track so as to be able to run 2 rail and 3 rail on the same track.

Running 2 rail and 3 rail on the same track is doable, but definitely not for the majority of customers. I always advise people to just pick a system and go with it. If your friends run 3-rail, pick 3-rail, if they run 2-rail go with that.

Märklin has a perfectly good track in the C-track, and it can be used for 2-rail as well using the Trix C-track.

If you want to run both 2-rail and 3-rail, create a loop with the Trix C-track and make exchange points for waggons. But you have to remember to change all AC axles on your wagons to DC axles. At the end of the day, I don't think it is worth the cost. Pick a system and stay with it.
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by MaerklinLife
Offline H0  
#107 Posted : 06 April 2018 08:53:07(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: michelvr Go to Quoted Post
I'm a little slow in the news department but I just learnt that the Fleischmann HO 2 rail is going the way of the Dinosaurs starting in 2019. [...]
I say it looks good for Marklin, c’est bon, n’est-ce pas ?
It's never a good time when a major player hits the dust. Marklin may be next.
Who hits the dust?

Fleischmann is not going out of business. There will be no more products for H0 gauge with the Fleischmann logo.

Roco and Fleischmann are trademarks of the RoFl company like Märklin, Trix, and LGB are trademarks of the MäTrix company.

RoFl has financial problems and these are bad news.
But the good Fleischmann H0 products will survive with a Roco logo on the box.
If makes no sense for the RoFl company to offer three or four track systems for the H0 gauge.
And it's easier for customers to have all products in one catalogue.

Is it good for Märklin? The competitors still provide the same products, just under fewer logos. So it is the reverse of "divide and conquer".

Grandparents who only know Fleischmann and Märklin will no longer find H0 starter sets from Fleischmann in the shops. So far it's good news for Märklin.
But there will still be Fleischmann N starter sets in the shops and shop assistants will tell the grandparents that Fleischmann now comes in Roco boxes. So Märklin sales may not really double now.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline kiwiAlan  
#108 Posted : 06 April 2018 15:32:49(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: MaerklinLife Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: baggio Go to Quoted Post
Marklin needs to make a more economical line, maybe go back to straight analogue as an alternative.

I don't see the point in straight analogue. I don't think it would make anything cheaper. The price of a decoder is not much these days. My guess would be that only a very few new customers would be interested in analogue today. If anything, Märklin could offer models without sound and make them cheaper that way.


I would agree with this, Marklin was steadily replacing the mechanical reverse mechanism with delta decoders because it is cheaper to produce the decoder than it is to produce the reversing unit.

Then using a DC motor instead of having to wind a field coil makes it even cheaper.

But the trend to can type motors worries me, as each model ends up with a different motor with different shaft lengths. This leads down the path of irrepairableness as spares are used up. Crying
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Minok  
#109 Posted : 06 April 2018 20:36:45(UTC)
Minok

United States   
Joined: 15/10/2006(UTC)
Posts: 2,310
Location: Washington, Pacific Northwest
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post


But the trend to can type motors worries me, as each model ends up with a different motor with different shaft lengths. This leads down the path of irrepairableness as spares are used up. Crying


Is that the case? I'd have thought that the move to a small DC motor makes sense from an economies of scale perspective, with small DC motors being produced worldwide for so many different products that good and cheap DC motors wold become a commodity, meaning that there should be a big pool of replacements available. Are they using bespoke DC motors?
Toys of tin and wood rule!
---
My Layout Thread on marklin-users.net: InterCity 1-3-4
My YouTube Channel:
https://youtube.com/@intercity134
Offline kiwiAlan  
#110 Posted : 07 April 2018 16:48:35(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Minok Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post


But the trend to can type motors worries me, as each model ends up with a different motor with different shaft lengths. This leads down the path of irrepairableness as spares are used up. Crying


Is that the case? I'd have thought that the move to a small DC motor makes sense from an economies of scale perspective, with small DC motors being produced worldwide for so many different products that good and cheap DC motors wold become a commodity, meaning that there should be a big pool of replacements available. Are they using bespoke DC motors?


While the basic motor may well be a standard item they seem to be bulk supplied to the MRR manufacturer with a non-standard shaft length and gear or worm to the MRR manufacturers requirements. The result is a bespoke item that has a fixed production run and no part number (or at best an OEM part number specific to the MRR manufacturers drawing) that makes it impossible to order a spare once the MRR manufacturers spares have run out.
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