Welcome to the forum   
Welcome Guest! To enable all features please Login or Register.

Notification

Icon
Error

2 Pages<12
Share
Options
View
Go to last post in this topic Go to first unread post in this topic
Offline Harryv40  
#51 Posted : 28 August 2015 19:21:19(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Wilshire
Hi all
I glad to see the news about a possible new CS, I was just about to spend 1,300 euros on a mega start set to get a CS! I will hold on to the money and wait and see.
Perhaps something will be said at Goppening, sorry I cannot spell, in a couple of weeks.

Or on a lighter note, perhaps I'll wait for the Apple/Marklin i6 Central station!!!!Laugh

Harry
Offline kiwiAlan  
#52 Posted : 28 August 2015 23:47:27(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all
I glad to see the news about a possible new CS, I was just about to spend 1,300 euros on a mega start set to get a CS! I will hold on to the money and wait and see.
Perhaps something will be said at Goppening, sorry I cannot spell, in a couple of weeks.

Or on a lighter note, perhaps I'll wait for the Apple/Marklin i6 Central station!!!!Laugh

Harry


As it is not announced in the Herbst NI it won't be announced until the Nurnberg toy fair at the earliest, and there will be an embargo on information until then.

Frankly I would get the set if that is the way you want to go to get one, assuming you want the other items in the set. Existence of a CS3 is pure speculation by everyone, there is no reason the CS2 can't be upgraded to make use of all the new capabilities announced for the new decoders.

And then if a CS3 does eventuate you can sell the CS2 and put the funds towards a CS3 - or use it as a slave device to a CS2 like you can slave a CS1 to a CS2 now.

thanks 2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Shamu  
#53 Posted : 29 August 2015 02:54:56(UTC)
Shamu

Australia   
Joined: 12/07/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,068
Location: In a building site in Yeppoon
In the grander scheme of things I would be very surprised if Marklin introduced a CS3 (or whatever its called) until component availability becomes a issue for the current one. After all ROI is the most important consideration for most businesses these days, not pandering to a vocal minority of tech obsessed model railroaders. I'm quite sure the average punter doesn't even come close to using the CS2 (or 1 for that matter) to its full capability.

The current unit is more than capable considering the interfaces and SW updates will manage future "loco/accessories" features with perhaps a conversion "box" to deal with any unforeseen developments.

Lets face it we are running model trains and not trying to do real time video conversion or play world of warcraft on it so it is more than up to the job at hand from a technical point of view. Well assuming you aren't trying to run 100+ loco's without computer control.

And for pete's sake who the hell needs 32 functions on a loco, god the real ones don't have that many LOL.

Just my take on it of course, I could be totally barking up the wrong tree BigGrin Unsure
Sad when its cheaper to buy a new 29640 starter set from Germany than a CS2 on its own in Oz, welcome to the joys of Marklin down under .
thanks 4 users liked this useful post by Shamu
Offline river6109  
#54 Posted : 29 August 2015 05:20:31(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 14,614
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
32 function on a loco ? I have more than 200 locos does this mean I need to press 6400 buttons ? this would take me close to 2 hours to go through them all, I rather would like to see the necessary functions can be activated automatically, this is without a PC control.

John

https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline Goofy  
#55 Posted : 29 August 2015 08:12:46(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,985
I guess MS3 will arrive out too...?
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#56 Posted : 29 August 2015 09:09:49(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
32 function on a loco? I have more than 200 locos does this mean I need to press 6400 buttons?
You will make Herr Sieber happy if you upgrade all your locos with those new, fantastic decoders. Cool
You will have to create your own sound projects to make use of 32 functions for each loco.

The current CS2 already supports 29 functions per loco - at least for those using PC control and DCC.

Let's face it: nowadays many sound locos come with more than 16 functions ex works and 16 functions per loco is outdated today.
mfx with 16 functions was a progress over fx locos with 9 functions, but that was 10 years ago.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#57 Posted : 29 August 2015 14:48:30(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,659
Location: New Zealand
Originally Posted by: Shamu Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Most likely there will be 60216 next year (or even earlier).

The 60215 is no longer available: red traffic lights, not in stock, discontinued.

Will the 60216 still be a "CS2" or will it be a "CS3"? Wait with baited breath ...


Arh, just curious Tom where you spotted that as I was just looking and its green traffic light and available from factory ?

LINK


I can verify that Tom was NOT seeing things. I checked the Marklin website as soon as I read his post, the 60215 was definitely shown as 'No longer produced'.

Originally Posted by: river6109 Go to Quoted Post
32 function on a loco ? I have more than 200 locos does this mean I need to press 6400 buttons ? this would take me close to 2 hours to go through them all, I rather would like to see the necessary functions can be activated automatically, this is without a PC control.


My thoughts, exactly. Thirty Two functions is way too many, and I really can't see the point of it except for someone to have bragging rights.......'My loco has 32 functions, yours only has 10....nah nah nah.......'

Who in their right mind is going to sit there activating all of those function, let alone try to control 32 functions on multiple locos. Personally, I don't use more than about 5 or 6.

John has hit the nail on the head, if you're going to have 32 functions, then there needs to be some method of automatically activating them.......whistle when a loco goes into a tunnel, smoke on when it comes out, etc.

As for having a CS3 as a black box, with no screen or throttle, rather it requires the use of an andriod / ithingy/PC tablet/phone/ whatever plus wifi to control it, the problem with that is that it would preclude the CS3 from being included in a mega starter set. Most folks buying a mega starter set would not want to have to purchase wifi plus a tablet/whatever to get the thing to run - yes I know most folks have that stuff already, but there are those who do not.
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Bigdaddynz
Offline sjlauritsen  
#58 Posted : 29 August 2015 18:09:24(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
As for having a CS3 as a black box, with no screen or throttle, rather it requires the use of an andriod / ithingy/PC tablet/phone/ whatever plus wifi to control it, the problem with that is that it would preclude the CS3 from being included in a mega starter set. Most folks buying a mega starter set would not want to have to purchase wifi plus a tablet/whatever to get the thing to run - yes I know most folks have that stuff already, but there are those who do not.

...and there are those who just do not want to use a smartphone or tablet for everything in life. That includes me. I like having a dedicated controller for my trains. Smile

Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by sjlauritsen
Offline kiwiAlan  
#59 Posted : 29 August 2015 22:49:01(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post

John has hit the nail on the head, if you're going to have 32 functions, then there needs to be some method of automatically activating them.......whistle when a loco goes into a tunnel, smoke on when it comes out, etc.


To me this is the reason for having so many functions available. It means a whistle will always be on a given function, smoke will also always be on another function that will be unused on an electric or diesel loco, but a diesel loco will have a startup initiated on another function that steam and electric won't use, etc. It means you don't need to have maps listing the functions of all your locos for automatic control of sounds such as whistle at railway crossing or tunnel.

Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post

As for having a CS3 as a black box, with no screen or throttle, rather it requires the use of an andriod / ithingy/PC tablet/phone/ whatever plus wifi to control it, the problem with that is that it would preclude the CS3 from being included in a mega starter set. Most folks buying a mega starter set would not want to have to purchase wifi plus a tablet/whatever to get the thing to run - yes I know most folks have that stuff already, but there are those who do not.


If they do produce a 'front panel-less CS' then I suspect it will be alongside the CS2 which will still be required for start sets.

Rather than something without a front panel, I would suggest that a new CS would be similar to the existing one but also have a built in wifi to allow use of smart phones without needing a router, or maybe Bluetooth instead of wifi. It could also have only a single control knob as part of the means of making the manufacturing cost cheaper - well why would you need two controls when you have a facility to use one or more smart phones as controllers?
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by kiwiAlan
Offline Mark_1602  
#60 Posted : 30 August 2015 05:10:39(UTC)
Mark_1602

Luxembourg   
Joined: 24/09/2014(UTC)
Posts: 704
Location: Luxembourg
Hi,

I've just visited the website of the Märklin Online Shop to find out how many CS2 they still have in stock. The answer is six right now. If you try to put more into the shopping basket, the system tells you that the shop doesn't have that many in stock.

Then I selected a locomotive at random, the Ludmilla 36420. The Märklin Online Shop has 30 of those in stock.

This doesn't really prove anything about the CS2, but it suggests that stock may be running low.

Best regards,
Mark
Best regards, Mark

I like Märklin items produced in the 1960s or early '70s, but also digital locos & current rolling stock.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Mark_1602
Offline NZMarklinist  
#61 Posted : 30 August 2015 06:00:40(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post
Hi all
I glad to see the news about a possible new CS, I was just about to spend 1,300 euros on a mega start set to get a CS! I will hold on to the money and wait and see.
Perhaps something will be said at Goppening, sorry I cannot spell, in a couple of weeks.

Or on a lighter note, perhaps I'll wait for the Apple/Marklin i6 Central station!!!!Laugh

Harry


This is what M doesn't want to happen, but I think there would be an out of stock situation for maybe component reasons, as Tom suggested, with a new version to be announced.
I think the layout and appearance of the CS2 is pretty good, but a larger screen would be nice RollEyes Smile

I recently acquired an I Phone 6 plus and it is so good I don't know how I made my iPh IV do for so long. M would never do a colab with Apple for a Controller or rather Apple wouldn't bother doing a colab with them on one. Huh

I had a little running session last night with my newly converted EP5 (Brown E52 Loksound V3 M4) from my 2860 Set using the
iPh 6+ and it brings a few new features to Touch Cab, and is a nice sized tool for the job ThumpUp Smile

Anyhow I continue to operate very happily & reliably, with my CS1-R with router attached for I thingys.
I will wait for my layout to be fully functional to buy a new Controller.
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NZMarklinist
Offline Goofy  
#62 Posted : 30 August 2015 09:46:06(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,985
Rocos Z21 and z21 has become success.
The cost of producing digital system makes big difference too.
Rocos cost only half of what CS2 does.
CS2 arrives without trafo,while Z21 does with the wi-fi router.
Just download app and you get ready to play.
But i must admit here,that Rocos Z21 don´t have nice keyboard etc...
It´s possible Märklin can and do want(?) to present different CSx this time.
Model railer do have mobil phone and tablets,to use it as controller.
Märklinist too use it.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline clapcott  
#63 Posted : 30 August 2015 10:12:35(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
I think the subject of this thread may be being unfortunately presumptuous.

The next Central Station (Ok lets call it 60216) may be a CS3 or it may be a CS2 extension. It is also possible that there may be both a tradition CS2 box and a blackbox version - but running the same code.

We have already seen that the CS2 may have a "soft" marketing update purpose (60213->60214 = primarily DCC support which was just software) or a more substantive feature ((->60215 = 5 Amp support for 1 Gauge). Who's to say that the next iteration may not be another "soft" marketing announce to distinguish/brand and align thinking with the (software support) capabilities of the new decoders. Further, marketing may feel the need to call it a CS3 simply because it has a "3" in it to align with the "3" in the msd3 and mld3.

In the last week we have seen other bits of information that really show no outward distinction that the new environment will have a different look that the current CS2 box.
1) The videos of the decoder program (version 2) show the familiar CS2 image as an option on the programming tool for the new decoders, at the same time making reference to the 32 functions.
2) the mAR marketing propaganda for the "Disco coach" again shows the familiar CS2 layout but with the F8-F15 functions using the right physical buttons.
(sure this may be to support the gimmick, but it does provide an insight into the thinking that is going on - the implied extension that I take is that F16-F31 will be the "touch only" indented rows on each side.)

As to the subject of 32 functions, I do think that some people are jumping to conclusions when they make the assertion that this automatically means that there will be 32 distinct functions. Again we have seen that there is no direct correlation,
1) Today you may "steal" one (or more) of the 16 Function positions of a loco and connect it to a CS2 memory function in order to run a sequence. That sequence may not even include any activity relating to the loco! What this DOES mean is that either, you cannot use this feature if the loco already has 16 functions, or you have to sacrifice one to make space.
2) The New Decoder video (programming example) also , quite distinctly, shows that F5 is not a tangible function at all but a sequence of 3 actual functions.
Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline Goofy  
#64 Posted : 30 August 2015 10:21:45(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,985
I did created an topic about digital functions.
The question was how many functions do you like to control.
For me i like between 10-12 functions to control locomotives and to use most interesting functions.
32 functions looks like to choose difference functions by use decoder/lok programmer.
ESU do have 21-23 functions,but it´s not necessary to use all functions.
Some of them can been disable by use CSx or Ecos...etc.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline H0  
#65 Posted : 30 August 2015 10:44:28(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
I think the subject of this thread may be being unfortunately presumptuous.
The funny thing is that this thread started in 2012 and that "next year" refers to 2013.

As of now, the 60215 is not marked as discontinued.
Time will tell what the 60216 will be and when it will be announced.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by H0
Offline Harryv40  
#66 Posted : 30 August 2015 11:38:12(UTC)
Harryv40

United Kingdom   
Joined: 07/08/2015(UTC)
Posts: 241
Location: Wilshire
I think we are all getting carried away!
Most manufactures want to make buyers spend more at no additional cost, if we use this as a basis how about these ideas

A new Central Station
Perhaps a slight increase to 20 f keys
Better connects for Internet, wifi, etc
A new hybrid box to bridge between Central Station and wifi to the track to provide train control via a table or mobile phone..
Improved display

No. Black box I am afraid simply because it would not sell many units costs would be to high because of tooling and possible issues with current locos already sold and in the new Central Station.

Marklin would not wish to kill the golden goose, it makes a lot more money out of locos, coaches, wagons, etc than the Central & Mobile stations.

Ok guys over to you and please be gentle!!!!!
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Harryv40
Offline Goofy  
#67 Posted : 30 August 2015 11:46:18(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,985
Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post
I think we are all getting carried away!
Most manufactures want to make buyers spend more at no additional cost, if we use this as a basis how about these ideas

A new Central Station
Perhaps a slight increase to 20 f keys
Better connects for Internet, wifi, etc
A new hybrid box to bridge between Central Station and wifi to the track to provide train control via a table or mobile phone..
Improved display

No. Black box I am afraid simply because it would not sell many units costs would be to high because of tooling and possible issues with current locos already sold and in the new Central Station.

Marklin would not wish to kill the golden goose, it makes a lot more money out of locos, coaches, wagons, etc than the Central & Mobile stations.

Ok guys over to you and please be gentle!!!!!


The problem is cost of producing.
CS2 are expensive.
To upgrade programs cost for Märklin too.
Bugs and defaults happens for some of the customer.
To fix the problem cost for the Märklin under the warranty.
I believe Märklin start to fix the problems,by solve it.
To do it,it´s to change the digital system to more clever and better ideas.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline clapcott  
#68 Posted : 30 August 2015 13:06:12(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,433
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post
.... No. Black box ... costs would be to high because of tooling


Whats wrong with the boxes they already have?

Here is a CS blackbox with a purely optional tactile throttle and 32 function keypad (everything else is wireless)

UserPostedImage
Peter
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by clapcott
Offline kiwiAlan  
#69 Posted : 30 August 2015 13:44:10(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 8,067
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post
.... No. Black box ... costs would be to high because of tooling


Whats wrong with the boxes they already have?

Here is a CS blackbox with a purely optional tactile throttle and 32 function keypad (everything else is wireless)

UserPostedImage


LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL ThumpUp ThumpUp ThumpUp

I come back to my premise that any new controller will have one control knob (to lower the production cost), though possibly a bigger display, and a Wi-Fi or Bluetooth interface to use smartphones or possibly their own android handset (like ESU have done) as a new wireless device.

This would allow them to produce mega start sets with a controller that is cheaper than the current one, and many purchasers will probably already have the necessary hardware in the form of one or more smartphones or tablets for additional controllers. There may even be a coupon to pay for the app download in with the start set.

Offline Goofy  
#70 Posted : 30 August 2015 14:45:22(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,985
I think you did misunderstand about the black box... Laugh
Technical and scientific concepts,describing the input and output as well as disregard the contents as a metaphor.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline NZMarklinist  
#71 Posted : 30 August 2015 15:56:53(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post


I come back to my premise that any new controller will have one control knob (to lower the production cost), though possibly a bigger display, and a Wi-Fi or Bluetooth interface to use smartphones or possibly their own android handset (like ESU have done) as a new wireless device.





So, actually it will be an CS/MS3 then, all in one unit Blink LOL
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
Offline Purellum  
#72 Posted : 30 August 2015 16:58:47(UTC)
Purellum

Denmark   
Joined: 08/11/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,496
Location: Mullerup, 4200 Slagelse
Cool

Originally Posted by: clapcott Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Harryv40 Go to Quoted Post
.... No. Black box ... costs would be to high because of tooling


Whats wrong with the boxes they already have?

Here is a CS blackbox with a purely optional tactile throttle and 32 function keypad (everything else is wireless)

UserPostedImage


Märklin can't use those as black boxes.

They are white. LOL LOL LOL LOL

Per.

Cool

If you can dream it, you can do it!

I, the copyright holder of this work, hereby release it into the public domain. This applies worldwide.

In case this is not legally possible:
I grant anyone the right to use this work for any purpose, without any conditions, unless such conditions are required by law.

UserPostedImage
thanks 2 users liked this useful post by Purellum
Users browsing this topic
2 Pages<12
Forum Jump  
You cannot post new topics in this forum.
You cannot reply to topics in this forum.
You cannot delete your posts in this forum.
You cannot edit your posts in this forum.
You cannot create polls in this forum.
You cannot vote in polls in this forum.

| Powered by YAF.NET | YAF.NET © 2003-2024, Yet Another Forum.NET
This page was generated in 1.160 seconds.