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Offline Sparrow  
#1 Posted : 18 July 2015 21:21:17(UTC)
Sparrow

Spain   
Joined: 05/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 219
Hello gents. Some time ago I read this great post by Martin T regarding M Track turnouts and how to upgrade them. I was especially impressed by the “tape fix”, intended to solve the tendency of DC coaches to derail on M track turnouts.

https://www.marklin-user...total-upgrade#post395361

It is widely known that AC and DC wheelsets are slightly different in width. AC wheels are a tad nearer to each other than DC ones. The difference does not prevent DC cars to run nicely on three rail track, but they frequently derail when take the curved side of a turnout, especially when they are pushed, rather than pulled, by a loco. The severity of the problem widely varies between different makes, models, and even different units of the same model, but is quite a pain in the *ss for those of us that like models not made by Märklin but still want to stick to our beloved three rail system.

Reading Martin T´s thread I first thougt that the problem would only affect M track, but as I started to use C track, I discovered that the problem persists, maybe not as severe, but still there in 24611, 24612, 24671 and 244672 turnouts.


The classic solution to this problem is change wheelsets. It cures it for sure, but can be expensive and not always easy to find appropriate replacements.
Wheels can be also “re-spaced”, forcing them to approach each other, but that is not easy without specific equipment and results can be difficult to consistently replicate.

So I decided to try a modification of the “tape fix” and cure the turnouts and not the wheels.

The solution is easy and dirty cheap. It takes me less of five minutes to tune a turnout. And it works just fine.

This is how I do it.


In this video the problem is clearly shown. This is a Ktrain boxcar. A spanish made model, with DC wheelsets.



The next series of pictures show the turnout before the tune-up and then how I cut a 1.5 x 30 mm, 0.25 mm thick Evergreen strip. Then I glue it with Tamiya Extra Thin or Humbrol liquid poliestirene glue to the outer face of the outer support rail of the turnout. It takes seconds to get fixed in place forever. Then I wheather it in the same fashion of the rest of the turnout and voilá.
If you don´t wheather your track, just paint it in a matching shade of gray.

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This video finally shows the result of the operation.
Hope you find it useful.

Best regards.
Luis.
thanks 27 users liked this useful post by Sparrow
Offline Hackcell  
#2 Posted : 19 July 2015 03:12:06(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Muy buena solución!

Voy a intentarlo, esto puede que solucione los problemas que tengo con los vagones Walthers.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
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Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 19 July 2015 10:22:02(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,837
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Interesting solution!

How does this affect the running of proper 3 rail wheels through the turnout? I would think that they might catch on the extra thickness of the check rail?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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Offline Sparrow  
#4 Posted : 19 July 2015 11:22:08(UTC)
Sparrow

Spain   
Joined: 05/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 219
Thank you Danilo and Ray.
As far as I have tried, regular AC wheelsets are not affected by this modification. Of course I can not completely rule out some exception, but they do not seem that likely since Märklin stock seems to be far more tolerant that other brands'.
Best regards.
Luis.
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Offline jvuye  
#5 Posted : 23 July 2015 22:52:53(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Smart solution, and effective.
I couldn't say you'll have trouble with original Märklin wheelsets, except maybe possibly with the ones from the 50's and before that had significantly thicker flanges.
Another one to keep in the bag of tricks!
Thanks!
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline hxmiesa  
#6 Posted : 27 July 2015 15:48:17(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
It´s a very nice trick to know and keep in mind if suddenly in a tight spot.
BUT... I doubt if it´ll last in the long run. With heavy running over a long time, I´ve learned that everything you put on the rails, eventually will be riding around with the wheelsets, and spread over the whole layout. I know this because I used to use tinfoil and double-sided tape to fabricate contact-tracks om M-rails; Eventually the wheels will chew into the stuff and tear it up. An adhesive paper-strip is no match for thousands of metal-wheels rubbing against it.
I repeat; Over the years (5+) and with heavy running...

Edited by user 28 July 2015 16:37:14(UTC)  | Reason: Just grammar. No words were added or deleted :-)

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
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Offline Sparrow  
#7 Posted : 27 July 2015 17:13:26(UTC)
Sparrow

Spain   
Joined: 05/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 219
Thank you Jacques and Henrik!.

Regarding durability, well, I can not tell for sure since I have been using this trick for a short time, but since the strip used is poliestirene plastic, glued to the track (that is also a kind of poliestirene) with a solvent that effectively melts together both plastics, it really should last forever. Of course it can be "sanded" down over time by passing wheel flanges, but in that case it should be easy to repeat the fix.

Best regards.
Luis.
Offline Goofy  
#8 Posted : 27 July 2015 17:14:46(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,985
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
It´s a very nice trick to know and keep in mind if suddenly in a tight spot.
BUT... I doubt if it´ll last in the long run. With heavy running over a long time, I´ve lerned that everything you put on the rails, eventually will be riding around with the wheelsets, and spread over the whole layout. I know this because I used to use thinfoil and double-sided tape to fabricate contact-tracks om M-rails; Eventually the wheels will chew into the stuff and tear it up. An adhesive paper-strip is no match for thousands of metal-wheels rubbing against it.
I repeat; Over the years (5+) and with heavy running...


Kids do have hobby.
Grownup do prefer use more advance tracks.
I suggest Märklin should start produce more advance tracks.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Sparrow  
#9 Posted : 27 July 2015 18:46:46(UTC)
Sparrow

Spain   
Joined: 05/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 219
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post

I suggest Märklin should start produce more advance tracks.


Well, that would be great, but I gess that a part not so small in our hobby is related to the pleasure of spotting a problem, facing it, and, with some luck and help from our friends, solve it. I really enjoy that part.

By the way, I´d like to know if Trix 2 rail C track has the same issue. If not, it should be easy for Märklin to implement the solution in 3 Rail C track.
Best regards.
Luis.
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Offline hxmiesa  
#10 Posted : 28 July 2015 16:40:48(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Sparrow Go to Quoted Post
Regarding durability, well, I can not tell for sure since I have been using this trick for a short time, but since the strip used is poliestirene plastic, glued to the track (that is also a kind of poliestirene) with a solvent that effectively melts together both plastics, it really should last forever. Of course it can be "sanded" down over time by passing wheel flanges, but in that case it should be easy to repeat the fix.

Then you will probably be okay, also into the far future. I dont know why I had the impression that you were using paper. My fault!

Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline hxmiesa  
#11 Posted : 28 July 2015 16:47:52(UTC)
hxmiesa

Spain   
Joined: 15/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 3,519
Location: Spain
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Kids do have hobby.
Grownup do prefer use more advance tracks.
I suggest Märklin should start produce more advance tracks.

Why is it that the whole world is always wrong, and everybody has to agree to your opinion? Do you think that is normal???

I am NOT a kid, but I DO have a hobby.
I`m a grownup, and prefer to use the tracks that Märklin already have.
So your above statements are wrong!



Best regards
Henrik Hoexbroe ("The Dane In Spain")
http://hoexbroe.tripod.com
Offline Sparrow  
#12 Posted : 28 July 2015 17:14:56(UTC)
Sparrow

Spain   
Joined: 05/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 219
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Then you will probably be okay, also into the far future. I dont know why I had the impression that you were using paper. My fault!



No wonder you thought it was paper. Looking again at the pictures, it sure looks like paper!

Best regards.
Luis.
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Offline Goofy  
#13 Posted : 29 July 2015 15:10:10(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,985
Originally Posted by: hxmiesa Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Kids do have hobby.
Grownup do prefer use more advance tracks.
I suggest Märklin should start produce more advance tracks.

Why is it that the whole world is always wrong, and everybody has to agree to your opinion? Do you think that is normal???

I am NOT a kid, but I DO have a hobby.
I`m a grownup, and prefer to use the tracks that Märklin already have.
So your above statements are wrong!





No my idea is correct.
Many rail roader did complainment about Märklins tracks.
Märklins tracks both K and C turnouts are far away correct term about the geometry with the guide/check rail.
Even live frog do have to big gap,which result worse safety train traffic.
Did i said you are kid!?
Märklins track geometry are for the kids with hard games and high speed.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline marklinist5999  
#14 Posted : 18 March 2021 00:38:10(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,044
Location: Michigan, Troy
Thank you for this solution! Yes, the Trix C track has same issue. That guy used Evergreen #133 styrene strips.
Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 18 March 2021 10:22:53(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
Yes, the Trix C track has same issue.
?????
Trix C track has the correct spacing for DC wheelsets. The tape trick should not be necessary for NEM DC wheelsets. Not sure about RP25.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
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Offline marklinist5999  
#16 Posted : 18 March 2021 11:35:56(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,044
Location: Michigan, Troy
I did a search on how to stop dc wheel derailment on Marklin c track turnouts. The video with Trix C track was too result.
Offline H0  
#17 Posted : 18 March 2021 11:38:13(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,249
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
I did a search on how to stop dc wheel derailment on Marklin c track turnouts. The video with Trix C track was too result.
Would you share the link to the video?

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline marklinist5999  
#18 Posted : 18 March 2021 12:09:02(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,044
Location: Michigan, Troy
[
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post
I did a search on how to stop dc wheel derailment on Marklin c track turnouts. The video with Trix C track was too result.
Would you share the link to the video?



Sorry, its early. Still on first cup of coffee. It's not a video. It's railway.zone
A forum by Soren from Sweden. Lot's of good tips for European modelers.
Offline dickinsonj  
#19 Posted : 18 March 2021 14:15:10(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,675
Location: Crozet, Virginia
Originally Posted by: marklinist5999 Go to Quoted Post

A forum by Soren from Sweden. Lot's of good tips for European modelers.


Just to be precise, Søren lives in Denmark, not Sweden, unless he has moved. He has been a friend for years and is as knowledgeable about Märklin/Trix trains as anyone I know.

Everyone should check out railway.zone because there is a ton of useful information on Søren's forum.
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
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Offline marklinist5999  
#20 Posted : 18 March 2021 21:27:43(UTC)
marklinist5999

United States   
Joined: 10/02/2021(UTC)
Posts: 3,044
Location: Michigan, Troy
Yes, it was early morning, and I confused Denmark and Sweden, neighbors just accross the Oresund.
Offline dickinsonj  
#21 Posted : 18 March 2021 21:43:34(UTC)
dickinsonj

United States   
Joined: 05/12/2008(UTC)
Posts: 1,675
Location: Crozet, Virginia
That is why I never post until after the second cup of coffee and I don't post after the second beer. ThumpUp
Regards,
Jim

I have almost all Märklin and mostly HO, although I do have a small number of Z gauge trains!
So many trains and so little time.
Offline nmbssncb  
#22 Posted : 04 August 2021 18:12:15(UTC)
nmbssncb


Joined: 07/08/2008(UTC)
Posts: 27
Location: ,
Luis,

Did you try to alter (reduce) the wheel spacing?

Willy
Offline PacoM  
#23 Posted : 04 August 2021 21:50:50(UTC)
PacoM

Spain   
Joined: 20/08/2020(UTC)
Posts: 60
In case it is of any help, I present my experience with some DC long vehicles that derailed at turnouts of C track.
Each axle was provided with a plastic tube between the right and the left wheel that assured the separation between them.
Cutting out a thin slice at one end and pushing the wheels conveniently solved the problem.
Regards
Paco
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