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Offline Goofy  
#1 Posted : 30 May 2015 09:05:49(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
I decides to start this topic by present reviews about Märklins new light signal.
Nobody other does care to present reviews about accessories in this forum.
Okey...
Nice package and easy to open.
Lot of candy inside by follows with the signal.
Decoder do have very small dip switches,so you need an magnifying glass and very small screw driver,to change dip switch.
It´s very nice details of the light signal.
The simulate box on the light signal looks like plastic,so to painting needed.
After i did test function,i will weathering the light signal.(pictures shows up in another topic)

What about disadvantage?
There is no parts to order,if the mast brokes and decoder stop in function or burn up.
However there is 2 years warranty,so you won't be afraid to get an new package.
Save the receipt!!
Without it,you can´t use the warranty!

I enclose the pictures here.
More pics later,after i did tested the light signal.
Goofy attached the following image(s):
DSC_0001_70.JPG
DSC_0002_71.JPG
DSC_0003_72.JPG
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Goofy  
#2 Posted : 30 May 2015 18:33:30(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Okey!
I did tested mfx signal and it works excellent! ThumpUp
I did decides to use DCC protocol and program by adjust CV value.
First to use an ghost locos adress and i did choised number 13.
Also this with DCC protocol.
Before to start programming,i did first change dip switches by use number 10,this to use DCC.
Second to use number 1-3-4 as adress for the signal.
Power must been shut off before to change dip switches!
I did programmed with CV 48 and 50,by change switching duration LED on/off and Cross fading behavior.
I choised value 1,so it simulate like prototype perfect.
The only i don´t like is sun shields,it protrudes too far out,so you can not see the lights obliquely downwards,but rather at the same level you look straight ahead.
I will change it,by shorten sun shields.
What about the brake section?
It works.
You can use signal brake modul in two difference way,by use Märklins for the Märklin locomotive and Lenz BM1 for the locomotives with the ABC-technik(only for the two rail).
I enclose few pictures here.

Goofy attached the following image(s):
DSC_0005_73.JPG
DSC_0006_74.JPG
DSC_0007_75.JPG
DSC_0008_76.JPG
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
thanks 6 users liked this useful post by Goofy
Offline Goofy  
#3 Posted : 31 May 2015 11:58:25(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
The problem for the two railer is brake modul to use with the DCC protocol.
Trix don´t have ABC technik,so to simulate brake auto to stop is not working.
It´s pity shame of Märklin!
Märklins own brake modul 72442 do only work for the three rail with MM and mfx.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Online H0  
#4 Posted : 31 May 2015 12:27:23(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Märklins own brake modul 72442 do only work for the three rail with MM and mfx.
Are you sure? AFAIK they also work with DCC. For two-rail users they even allow direction-dependent braking.
The 72442 manual mentions H0 and I gauge locos, so it can be used for two-rail I gauge operation.
The same principle is used by Bogobit braking modules - and Bogobit explicitly support DCC. You just need decoders that support this braking mode.

Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#5 Posted : 31 May 2015 15:14:15(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Märklins own brake modul 72442 do only work for the three rail with MM and mfx.
Are you sure? AFAIK they also work with DCC. For two-rail users they even allow direction-dependent braking.
The 72442 manual mentions H0 and I gauge locos, so it can be used for two-rail I gauge operation.
The same principle is used by Bogobit braking modules - and Bogobit explicitly support DCC. You just need decoders that support this braking mode.



Are you telling to me,that brake module 72442 can be use in the H0 scale two rails?
If so,why did´t Märklin verified this in the manual of the mfx signals!?
If Trix did just had ABC technik,i would use Lenz brake modul BM1.
Some customer use computer with the TC by use automatic.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline sjlauritsen  
#6 Posted : 31 May 2015 18:10:38(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Are you telling to me,that brake module 72442 can be use in the H0 scale two rails?

Of course it can - and N scale too. The current does not care if it comes out of a center rail or a left- or right rail.

I use one for my layout with an m83 as the controlling decoder. You simply feed the braking module through the decoder. Easy as pie.

The braking modules uses a safety zone in the beginning of the braking section. On 3-rail this has to be the length of the longest pickup shoe, on 2-rail is has to be the length of the longest train set(!) meaning that if you have a 4 meter true-to-scale ICE with current conducting couplers and multiple power pickups this has to fit in the safety zone. Luckily, I do not have that, so I make it the lenght of the longest locomotive which, in my case, is a BR 01 or a Ludmilla. Other than that, it is the same as with 3-rail. There are other "brake-on-DC" solutions than Märklins which do not have this safety-zone requirement. One of them is Bogobit-modules, but unfortunately the guy does not ship outside Germany.

With regards to the ABC, which is allows for so much more, there are only LokPilot 4.0 (and LokSound 4.0) as well as the Lenz decoders with ABC that supports it. Meaning, that every time you buy a loco, you have to be sure that it contains a compatible decoder. Meaning, that you will probably have to change many decoders to get a truly working setup. For that reason I gave up on the ABC system.

Zimo support parts of ABC as well, but not all of it, which is why I do not see those as candidates.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
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Offline Goofy  
#7 Posted : 01 June 2015 01:07:43(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Are you telling to me,that brake module 72442 can be use in the H0 scale two rails?

Of course it can - and N scale too. The current does not care if it comes out of a center rail or a left- or right rail.

I use one for my layout with an m83 as the controlling decoder. You simply feed the braking module through the decoder. Easy as pie.

The braking modules uses a safety zone in the beginning of the braking section. On 3-rail this has to be the length of the longest pickup shoe, on 2-rail is has to be the length of the longest train set(!) meaning that if you have a 4 meter true-to-scale ICE with current conducting couplers and multiple power pickups this has to fit in the safety zone. Luckily, I do not have that, so I make it the lenght of the longest locomotive which, in my case, is a BR 01 or a Ludmilla. Other than that, it is the same as with 3-rail. There are other "brake-on-DC" solutions than Märklins which do not have this safety-zone requirement. One of them is Bogobit-modules, but unfortunately the guy does not ship outside Germany.

With regards to the ABC, which is allows for so much more, there are only LokPilot 4.0 (and LokSound 4.0) as well as the Lenz decoders with ABC that supports it. Meaning, that every time you buy a loco, you have to be sure that it contains a compatible decoder. Meaning, that you will probably have to change many decoders to get a truly working setup. For that reason I gave up on the ABC system.

Zimo support parts of ABC as well, but not all of it, which is why I do not see those as candidates.


But the prices makes difference between Märklin and Lenz brake modul.
Märklins cost at least 5 times more than Lenz!
I can even build up own brake module same like Lenz,by use diodes,PCB and the wires.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline sjlauritsen  
#8 Posted : 01 June 2015 06:18:32(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
But the prices makes difference between Märklin and Lenz brake modul.
Märklins cost at least 5 times more than Lenz! I can even build up own brake module same like Lenz,by use diodes,PCB and the wires.

That is true, and that is what makes ABC a very attractive system. Unfortunately what you save in one end, you will have to spend on replacing decoders, which probably will end up being a much more costly adventure if you have a lot of locos.

If you like ESU, you basically will have to change all decoders to LokSound 4.0 or LokPilot 4.0. For those money you can buy quite a load of braking modules. Probably a lot more than you actually would need. Not all ESU MTC21 decoders will work with Märklin (or Trix) meaning that some locomotives will never have the abiliity to use ABC which again will ruin the whole idea.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Online H0  
#9 Posted : 01 June 2015 07:56:14(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,251
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
Not all ESU MTC21 decoders will work with Märklin (or Trix) meaning that some locomotives will never have the abiliity to use ABC which again will ruin the whole idea.
It's a pity that so many MäTrix locos do not have a NEM-compatible decoder socket.
ESU makes 21MTC decoders for NEM sockets only, Zimo also support NMRA sockets (MäTrix).
If you only need basic ABC features, Zimo decoders can be used directly (where ESU decoders would require changes to the loco).

AFAIK both Märklin braking modules and ABC braking modules use diodes to signal "brake" to the decoder.
Märklin 72442: € 69.99 RRP.
Bogobit kit (for Märklin brake system): € 12.70.

It's a pity that Bogobit only ships to two countries - they blame EU requirements. Maybe other companies offer similar PCBs/kits that are available in more/other countries.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline Goofy  
#10 Posted : 01 June 2015 08:43:56(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Thank you for the respons boys!
I enclose closer pics of the signal.

DSC_0001_80.JPG
DSC_0002_81.JPG
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline sjlauritsen  
#11 Posted : 01 June 2015 10:49:41(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
It's a pity that so many MäTrix locos do not have a NEM-compatible decoder socket.
ESU makes 21MTC decoders for NEM sockets only, Zimo also support NMRA sockets (MäTrix).

To be honest, I think ESU should just cave in and accept that this is the case. I mean, you can have all sorts of idealistic reasons, but the fact of the matter is that the NMRA socket exists and that some manufacturers have used them in their models. If ESU had done that, I would never had bought anything but the LokPilot. My guess is, that a lot of people feel the same way.

With regards to the Zimo-decoder: If I were to use the ABC system I would prefer that all my locos react the same way, simple because it is easier to plan a running session if you do not have to deal with special cases. I am not a fan of rebuilding my locomotive's electronics.

...and yes, the Märklin Brake module is very expensive compared to what it does and compared to other brake modules. The bogobit modules are - unfortunately - out of my reach. If you know what you're doing, you could basically just have a switch that sends DC into the track. That would also make the loco brake, but of course the risk of a short is there if you operate it wrong.

If ESU were to change their stand on the NMRA socket, I would buy LokPilot in a heartbeat. I feel a bit "limited" with decoders from other brands.


Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline jeehring  
#12 Posted : 01 June 2015 14:48:44(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: sjlauritsen Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Goofy Go to Quoted Post
Are you telling to me,that brake module 72442 can be use in the H0 scale two rails?

Of course it can - and N scale too. The current does not care if it comes out of a center rail or a left- or right rail.

...(...)...The braking modules uses a safety zone in the beginning of the braking section. ...(...)... on 2-rail is has to be the length of the longest train set(!)....(...)....


For this configuration don't you think that it has to be the lenght of the LONGEST LOCOMOTIVE ...only ?
(instead of "longest train set" , " longest locomotive" could be enough...don't you think so ? )

Offline Goofy  
#13 Posted : 01 June 2015 15:03:46(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post

For this configuration don't you think that it has to be the lenght of the LONGEST LOCOMOTIVE ...only ?
(instead of "longest train set" , " longest locomotive" could be enough...don't you think so ? )



Not if you use another kind of brake modul,like BM2 and BM3 from Lenz.
So call push/pull train must be longest train set inside of the brake section area.

H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline jeehring  
#14 Posted : 01 June 2015 15:23:50(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
...Soren & I we were talking about 72442 module in a specific configuration ( with two rails + safety zone at the beginning of braking section....)
Offline jeehring  
#15 Posted : 01 June 2015 16:39:20(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
...and I would be happy to know how these new signals behave with MFX, I guess they should be really easy to install & configure .., Is there, on the decoder, a free output eventually ready for the future to communicate to the rest of the network ?
Offline sjlauritsen  
#16 Posted : 01 June 2015 17:58:43(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post
...and I would be happy to know how these new signals behave with MFX, I guess they should be really easy to install & configure .., Is there, on the decoder, a free output eventually ready for the future to communicate to the rest of the network ?

The mfx functions are first available with software version 4.0 of the Central Station. This version should be out within the next months.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline sjlauritsen  
#17 Posted : 01 June 2015 18:11:41(UTC)
sjlauritsen

Denmark   
Joined: 18/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,081
Location: Denmark
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post
For this configuration don't you think that it has to be the lenght of the LONGEST LOCOMOTIVE ...only ?
(instead of "longest train set" , " longest locomotive" could be enough...don't you think so ? )

Nope! Smile I did mean the longest train set but, as I wrote, with multiple power pickups.

Some times, on 2-rail, you have multiple power pickups all over a train set. This ensures stable running in case of a dirty track and so on. We simply exploit the fact that we can use every axle, and thus get a better performance. This is a good thing. You may also have a train that have several coaches with interior lighting, with a power pickup on every coach, but shared between the coaches using current conducting couplers. If one coach passes some dirt on the track, it wont blink, because it will get the power from the shared power.

If those types of trains passes a too small safety zone, they will bridge the braking signal with the digital signal, which will cause a short.

One example is the Trix Class 420, which have power pickups on both driving trailers. That train will have to fit into the safety zone.
Søren from Denmark
Blog: https://railway.zone/ | Danish Model Railway Forum: https://baneforum.dk/
Offline Goofy  
#18 Posted : 01 June 2015 19:44:05(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
But Märklins brake modul are expensive to get to every each signal,just to simulate brake automatic train control.
But of course you do control manually or automatic with the signal with the brake modul or without it.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Goofy  
#19 Posted : 07 June 2015 14:34:38(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
I shall try to get one Viessmanns brake modul 5232 to test with the mfx signal.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Hackcell  
#20 Posted : 07 June 2015 22:49:47(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Now I'm wondering if the signals working on DCC will work with DCC braking modules.... Besides of trying with a viessmann MM braking module, I'll try to wire it to this ddcbitswitch braking module.
I hope it doesn't damage the signal...

Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline Goofy  
#21 Posted : 08 June 2015 17:43:04(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Originally Posted by: Hackcell Go to Quoted Post
Now I'm wondering if the signals working on DCC will work with DCC braking modules.... Besides of trying with a viessmann MM braking module, I'll try to wire it to this ddcbitswitch braking module.
I hope it doesn't damage the signal...



Viessmann says brake modul works only for the MM(connection red and brown).
But it seems it should do same way with the DCC...?
It will not damage light signal,because connection(two wires of the red) works separately(switch relay) in the decoder.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
Offline Hackcell  
#22 Posted : 08 June 2015 18:37:25(UTC)
Hackcell

Costa Rica   
Joined: 21/11/2013(UTC)
Posts: 521
Hi Goofy,

In theory the only difference between the braking modules is the DCC bitswitch will send a Zero packet signal (CV4 compatible) while the Viessmann just applies DC power instead of digital DC power.
Danilo Jiménez
Union Pacific and DB Cargo H0 models.
Märklin, Brawa, MTH and some Walthers cars (nobody is perfect!)
Pinball machines, jukeboxes and Horses.
Costa Rica, pura vida!!
Offline Goofy  
#23 Posted : 08 June 2015 21:26:27(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
The two red wires can been connecting with the MM or DCC.
Either you use Märklin or Viessmann brake modul,you use MM.
With Lenz asymmetrical brake modul(ABC brake),you use DCC.
The only you must think about Lenz,is to use locomotive decoder which supports ABC brake too.
No problem with this to use Märklins new light signals.
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline Goofy  
#24 Posted : 28 June 2015 19:50:47(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
My new distance light signal works fine. ThumpUp
I was forcement to cut down the sun shields,to see better with the LED´s lighting.

DSC_0004_92.JPG
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Goofy
H0
Offline Goofy  
#25 Posted : 29 June 2015 20:10:44(UTC)
Goofy


Joined: 12/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 8,986
Okey...here is few pictures.
It works fine.

DSC_0007_94.JPGDSC_0008_95.JPGDSC_0009_96.JPGDSC_0005_93.JPG
H0
DCC = Digital Command Control
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Offline NZMarklinist  
#26 Posted : 04 October 2015 02:44:41(UTC)
NZMarklinist

New Zealand   
Joined: 15/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,757
Location: Auckland NZ
The latest issue, (Vol 27 - No 23) of the Marklin Digital News gives an in depth description of how to use the new MFX signals with the CS2 ThumpUp

They also detail connecting them, using all the various C Track contact tracks , as well as offering economical alternatives, ie make your own using track insulators Wink

There is also detail on using and connecting the new S88's

It seems the new Digital guys in Marklin USA are on to it ThumpUp Smile
Glen
Auckland NZ

" Every Marklin layout needs a V200, a Railbus and a Banana car", not to mention a few Black and red Steamers, oh and the odd Elok !

CS1 Reloaded, Touch Cab, C Track Modules, K track layout all under construction. Currently Insider
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by NZMarklinist
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