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Informative Improving ET420 (Marklin 37501-37505)
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Offline Gregor  
#1 Posted : 10 August 2013 19:11:16(UTC)
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Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 996
Location: Netherlands
Hi all,

Since a long time I wanted to buy an ET420 S-Bahn train, but I could not decide which one to go for: The orange Stuttgart version 37501 or the blue Munich version 37504.

Then I saw pictures on internet showing both blue and orange units in one consist and learned:
- That orange units would be operated several months in Munich before being shipped to other regions
- That later also the units for Munich were painted orange
- That often units from other regions were lent out to Munich in case of material shortage.

I decided therefore that a orange/blue combination would be prototypical and bought both. I set speed and acceleration cv's similar to both units and checked whether their speed would be close enough to couple them into one consist. It worked with one issue: Each unit has two sliders and only the one going in front is used. When driving slow, when the first unit looses contact due to dirty rail, it stops, and the rear one pushes the front waggons off the rails (when in a curve).

I have opened the driving units and connected the input wires of both sliders (see yellow circles). Now each unit uses 2 sliders to pick up current. Runs flawless now !

Best regards,
Gregor
PS: Who thinks it is brave to wield a soldering iron in a newly purchased train: The brave part was opening this unit: You have to bend and twist the motor unit as if you are strangling your mother in law!
Gregor attached the following image(s):
ET420 improvement.jpg
301.jpg
Blauw-oranje.jpg
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Offline xxup  
#2 Posted : 10 August 2013 22:59:54(UTC)
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xxup

Australia   
Joined: 15/03/2003(UTC)
Posts: 9,473
Location: Australia
Originally Posted by: Gregor Go to Quoted Post
...as if you are strangling your mother in law!


Sounds like you have some experience in this area? LOL
Adrian
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Offline jvuye  
#3 Posted : 11 August 2013 06:20:26(UTC)
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jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,881
Location: South Western France
Hello Gregor!
Good job.!
Well it's only the first time that counts, after that it get's easier!
I have done that so many times in the last 60 years!!!
(err...Opening model trains I mean, not strangling my Mother in law... Well, maybe, on second thought, I should have tried that too...BigGrin )

Seriously now: just a couple of observations / questions..

I do not know how your layout power supply is set up.
But I'll assume it's digital.
If you only have one Central unit and no additional boosters, you are fine.
But if you have layout sections powered by a second booster, you may , in some cases, bridge the gap between the two sections and create a short *inside the train* .

Also I'd be interested to see how the two units are physically coupled

Thanks a lot

Cheers
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
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Offline H0  
#4 Posted : 11 August 2013 08:20:30(UTC)
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H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,267
Location: DE-NW
Hi!
Originally Posted by: jvuye Go to Quoted Post
But if you have layout sections powered by a second booster, you may , in some cases, bridge the gap between the two sections and create a short *inside the train* .
Should be fine with most boosters. Setups that require a centre rail rocker are a "no go", but most boosters nowadays don't need them. You cannot work with signal braking modules with such a train configuration either.

I've heard at the MiWuLa they run all their trains with two sliders.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline Gregor  
#5 Posted : 11 August 2013 09:23:12(UTC)
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Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 996
Location: Netherlands
Quote:
Sounds like you have some experience in this area?


Even that should be done with delicacy...
Gregor
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Offline Gregor  
#6 Posted : 11 August 2013 09:37:28(UTC)
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Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 996
Location: Netherlands
Hi,

I power the layout with 8x 6021-like boosters. Indeed the train will now connect different booster sections. I found as long as the boosters are fed by the same control system, their input signal is identical, so their output to the tracks is in sync. (There will be some small differences between the outputs of individual boosters, due to slightly different response times and voltage amplifications, but these are marginal, so no large currents will flow from one booster to the other). I made sure that where the trains stop, both front and rear slider are in sections fed by the same booster.

If the various boosters are fed by different control systems, or if there some sections are analog next to a digital section, there will indeed be a short circuit. These are the situation which H0 refers to, that require a rocker.

As for the physical connection: The units come with a non functional scharfenberg coupling which is clipped into the front and rear. Also included is a double scharfenberg coupling, with clips on both sides. This connects the units physically.

Best regards,
Gregor
Gregor attached the following image(s):
ET420 Coupling.jpg
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Offline danmarklinman  
#7 Posted : 11 August 2013 14:00:12(UTC)
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danmarklinman

United Kingdom   
Joined: 18/10/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,379
Originally Posted by: Gregor Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

I power the layout with 8x 6021-like boosters. Indeed the train will now connect different booster sections. I found as long as the boosters are fed by the same control system, their input signal is identical, so their output to the tracks is in sync. (There will be some small differences between the outputs of individual boosters, due to slightly different response times and voltage amplifications, but these are marginal, so no large currents will flow from one booster to the other). I made sure that where the trains stop, both front and rear slider are in sections fed by the same booster.

If the various boosters are fed by different control systems, or if there some sections are analog next to a digital section, there will indeed be a short circuit. These are the situation which H0 refers to, that require a rocker.

As for the physical connection: The units come with a non functional scharfenberg coupling which is clipped into the front and rear. Also included is a double scharfenberg coupling, with clips on both sides. This connects the units physically.

Best regards,
Gregor


Nice Gregor, just out of interrest did they not do a dummy set as well. cheers Dan
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Offline Gregor  
#8 Posted : 11 August 2013 20:11:57(UTC)
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Gregor

Netherlands   
Joined: 17/04/2003(UTC)
Posts: 996
Location: Netherlands
Originally Posted by: danmarklinman Go to Quoted Post
Nice Gregor, just out of interrest did they not do a dummy set as well. cheers Dan


Hi Dan,

I think Marklin did not. Trix issed dummy units in orange and red livery, but these are without interior lighting. I decided to go for the motorised Marklin ones, so they can run as a single unit as well.

Best regards,
Gregor
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