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Offline Graham HO  
#1 Posted : 12 May 2013 02:22:16(UTC)
Graham HO

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/07/2008(UTC)
Posts: 120
Having just spent a frustrating 10 days trying to figure out how to get my head around the instructions for CS2/60215 Memory set up [pages 64/65] - can some of you very clever members please point me in the right direction for a definitive solution - save having a brain transplant. Many thanks in advance.
Offline clapcott  
#2 Posted : 12 May 2013 12:18:58(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,321
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Hi Graham,

I do not think you will find a definitive solution. Features keep getting added and tweaked.
(Please indicate the version of your CS2 - as this will affect the screens that are displayed and will most likely not match those of the manual 100%)

The base concept of setting up a route is one thing, however HOW you intend using it is another.
Is it the setup of the route that you are querying about?
Or its use/operation

if you could identify what you wish to use the memory for and how you envisage it being used, we might be a bit more focused in our replies.

options for use are (not limited to) ..
- manual trigger from the memory tag
- trigger from the layout diagram
- trigger from sensor input (from the layout)

Peter
Offline Graham HO  
#3 Posted : 13 May 2013 01:51:04(UTC)
Graham HO

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/07/2008(UTC)
Posts: 120
Hi Peter - many thanks for your reply - I hope that I can express myself satisfactorily to your questions.

Firstly - I managed a recent update on the CS2 to s/w 3.0.1 on h/w 4.33.

Secondly - my main motive for wanting to install the 'Memory' is that it is there for a purpose, and as I have multi-layered track with some slightly complex point work - it would suit my needs to have a semi automated "location cum feedback cum one button" system - to set a Route for a particular train/consist until such time as I choose to change it - if this is not too much of an ask.

Thirdly - on a few occasions over the said previous 10 days, I have actually managed to get a couple of points to connect to the 'Memory A1 Route' - but subsequently lost this connection and been unable to retrieve it. I do not know what I am not doing in the correct order according to the instructions on p.64/65 - in part these instructions are inadequate - and not fit for purpose. One of the big problems is transferring a point/switch/signal icon from the 'Keyboard' into the 'Memory'. Green and sometimes Yellow spots pop up in the route buttons, but there has been no benefit from this success - and there are precious few there now.

I would like to use S88 based feedback modules triggered by Viessmann 6840 Reed Switches - but until the installation of the 'Memory Routes' can be resolved - this wish list is going know where.

Having read many threads on this Forum about other issues to do with initiating and controlling various options on Märklin products, I see that I am not alone in getting my head around some of the apparent complexities of the digital system.

Hope this info. is of some help.

Graham
Offline clapcott  
#4 Posted : 15 May 2013 10:45:02(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,321
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Graham HO Go to Quoted Post
... I have actually managed to get a couple of points to connect to the 'Memory A1 Route' - but subsequently lost this connection and been unable to retrieve it.


Graham,

I will focus my reply on this part of your dilemma, (The linking to have a sensor trigger the route is an extension of the base function - and not worth getting into until the route is correctly defined to your satisfaction).

At this point I take the term
-> "get a couple of points to connect" to mean you saw them appear in the route builder strip on the right as you were configuring/editing a route
-> "unable to retrieve ...." may refer to the (short sighted) design of the CS2s memory function panels which have a limitation, in that you will only be able to "see" the Route Builder Strip again if you return to configuration/edit mode for the route being considered

The user manual does contain the essential steps you need, however they have inserted a number of distracting "options" and notes that are not needed to get things going.

You indicate that you have navigated as far as the route Edit screen before
-> MemTab Memory Tab (to access the memory panels)
-> MemEd Service Button (to enter configuration mode - note the screen background goes blue)
-> MemID Select "A1" (or another route ID of your choice)

At this point ..
-> MemID the RouteID icon will acquire a blue border to identify which route is being configured
-> (image below) Advance details will be displayed at the bottom of the screen (Like Route name and the s88 sensor definition stuff)
-> (image below) the "Route Builder Strip" will appear on the right.
MemID

The concept is to add accessories(identifying their desired aspect) to the "Route Builder Strip".
(Once the route is built, either the "save" or "save_and_exit" buttons must be selected, following this it is also desirable to "shutdown" the CS2 correctly - don't just turn off the power switch)

To add accessories to the "route builder strip" one must change to either the Keyboard tab or the layout tab( assuming accessories have been added there) In doing so you will notice the Memory Tab remains BLUE indicating you are still in configuration/edit mode. From the keyboard panel you can select the accessory items and will observe them appear in the "Route Builder Strip". When you have built the route be sure to save it.
MemID

Edited by user 16 May 2013 10:26:52(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Peter
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Offline Graham HO  
#5 Posted : 16 May 2013 06:10:39(UTC)
Graham HO

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/07/2008(UTC)
Posts: 120
Hi Peter - many thanks for your on going interest with the "Memory Set-up" - your graphics have helped a great deal - and it has been interesting to compare where I have "been" on the CS2 screen - with your well written support.

I now have Green spots in 6 consecutive buttons in route order representing 6 "switches" [points - apologies for lack of clarity in my previous thread] on line A1.

Do I need to be concerned about the Advanced Settings facility "Erweiterte Einstellungen für Fahrstraße" where there is an option/need to copy the identity of the button number on each individual switch? i.e. Auslöser on the left and Bedingung on the right. Apologies for asking this question, but I need to put it to rest as there doesn't appear to be any reference in the instruction book.

Having got to where I am now - the next phase would be to link these 6 buttons [switches] into a 'Daisy Chain' effect, either by an input - from a single S88 contact - say at button A1 in Auto Mode or a manual input on the Memory screen.

I have not mentioned the 'Layout' facility on CS2 at this stage - it is up and running to the extent of 6 pages, but I don't want to go there - unless there is a significant element in it that is likely to help me.

I also notice that the "S" icon inside each 'on screen' button in line A1 is not broken - on a number of isolated occasions in the past, this break has enabled me to get a signal from the Memory screen to activate a 'switch' - but no Daisy Chain effect even though 2 consecutive buttons had a break in the S.

Hope this sheds some more light on the situation - I believe our dialog could be generating a certain amount of interest with other members who are or have had similar problems.

Cheers
Graham
Offline clapcott  
#6 Posted : 16 May 2013 09:54:14(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,321
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Quote:
I now have Green spots in 6 consecutive buttons in route order representing 6 "switches" [points - apologies for lack of clarity in my previous thread] on line A1.

Hi Graham, your phrasing is giving me cause to wonder if there is a misunderstanding about what is the route. Apologies if I am being a bit basic.

The "A line" (not the "A1 line") is just a reference on the screen and contains 8 routes (by default named A1,A2...A8 - although those names can be changed). The line itself is NOT a route containing up to 8 objects (turnout/signal/function). There is no link/chaining between routes (on the same line or else where) unless you specifically create it!

While it is valid to have only one item (Turnout/Signal/Function) within each route, as you suggest you have done with the "6 consecutive" buttons, it is more common (dare I say expected) that all the items you want to daisy chain are WITHIN the route (e.g. you could put the 6 points of a fiddle yard in one route so that pressing one button will cause 6 devices to fire in sequence to the desired state)

Please confirm that you are intending to set up 6 routes with 1 switch/point in each and are not wanting a single route containing 6 switches/points

Quote:

Do I need to be concerned about the Advanced Settings facility "Erweiterte Einstellungen für Fahrstraße" where there is an option/need to copy the identity of the button number on each individual switch? i.e. Auslöser on the left and Bedingung on the right. Apologies for asking this question, but I need to put it to rest as there doesn't appear to be any reference in the instruction book.

Absolutely not - Personally I recommend steering clear of this option until it is enhanced to be practical. FYI refer to Review of Memory Conditioning Feature

Quote:

I also notice that the "S" icon inside each 'on screen' button in line A1 is not broken - on a number of isolated occasions in the past, this break has enabled me to get a signal from the Memory screen to activate a 'switch' - but no Daisy Chain effect even though 2 consecutive buttons had a break in the S.


Again, as above, each button represents a route the ICON has the following meaning
-> MemIconNew This is an empty undefined route container , i.e. contains no turnout/signal/function objects
-> MemIconSplit This route contains objects but at least one is not in the desired state
-> MemIconIntact This route contains objects and ALL of them are in the desired state
-> MemIconInwork This route contains objects and has been activated and is in the process of setting all object to the desired state. This is transient and will last only long enough for the CS2 to send commands to each of the objects in the route - on completion the yellow dot will change to green.

For example if a route contained only one item (Signal #3) with a desired state of GO(Green) and the signal was in that state, then the icon would have a green dot. As it would after you pressed the button to activate the route and set it to that state. Now if , say on the keyboard, you changed the state of Signal #3 to Stop(Red) the route would be compromised and the icon for the route would have a split "S"


Note: A point worth making that relates to your observation is that once a route has gone green and set the objects to the desired state - pressing it again will do NOTHING- i.e. if you manually change a turnout to the "wrong" state. The Route has no knowledge of this and thinks that everything is where it should be and does NOT fire again. Only when "it thinks" the Route is split will it react to an activation.

Warning: And as a sanity check, be aware that there are still bugs in the Route edit function (@3.0.1) I have found these "appear" after a number of edit where you are building up a route but get something wrong (e.g. red instead of green) and do a number of re-edits on the same item. If you suspect this I can only suggest noting down the route objects, delete them all back an empty route (and save that) then build the route again with as few re-edits as possible.
Peter
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Offline Graham HO  
#7 Posted : 18 May 2013 06:21:18(UTC)
Graham HO

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/07/2008(UTC)
Posts: 120
Hi Peter - your excellent instructions have at last borne fruit - I now get the daisy chain effect on 'switch' changes, providing each 'switch' is set on it's opposite direction - "the Penny has dropped" as they say. I think you should submit this comprehensive explanation to our friends in Goppingen for inclusion in a future instructions edit. They have much to learn about plain understandable English

Having jumped this hurdle - can I now ask about the "Erweitere Einstellungen für Fahrstraße" - where does this facility come in to play? BTW I will look at the "Review of Memory Conditioning Feature".

Many thanks
Graham
Offline Janne75  
#8 Posted : 18 May 2013 09:37:04(UTC)
Janne75

Finland   
Joined: 23/03/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2,681
Location: Finland
Thanks to Peter from very good instructions regarding Memory and Routes ThumpUp . Thanks also to Graham for asking these questions as without them these instructions could not be read here now RollEyes .

I just set up many different Routes some weeks ago. There is 17 turnouts and this Route function is very good and I like it very much. I just wonder why I operated all my individual turnouts manually one at a time for so long from Keyboard page before I setup my Routes? Better to do it after a year than never though Wink . I operate these Routes manually as I have not any S88 modules or contact tracks. My 16 signals are from Märklin My World series and I operate them manually with their control boxes. Signals don't cut track current in my setup. I wanted to use them manually myself and run my trains according to them manually = stop them to red lights and run again when the light gets green.

These instructions would have helped me also when I was setting up my Routes, but I figured things out by myself with help of quite limited CS 2 instruction manual Memory chapter. CS2 Help function also helped me a bit to get it done. I think that the most confusing thing can be if Route is thought as A1-A8. A1 is one route including all the turnouts and signals in that Route. I have renamed all my Routes that is setup to have better and easier control of them. These names has to be quite short. I have setup Routes from main lines to all side tracks and three locomotive sheds. When I figured out how to do it I even setup Routes from different side tracks to other side tracks. Also from one loco shed to another etc.

I have also setup all my turnouts and a bit simplified track layout on the Layout page. After doing these Routes and Layout I'm really happy of the easier operation of my layout as before.

Best regards,
Janne
Märklin H0 digital layout. I have analog and digital H0 Collection. Rolling stock mostly from era I, II, III and IV. Märklin 1 gauge beginner.
Offline clapcott  
#9 Posted : 18 May 2013 10:41:19(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,321
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Graham HO Go to Quoted Post
... can I now ask about the "Erweitere Einstellungen für Fahrstraße" - where does this facility come in to play?

The "Erweitere Einstellungen für Fahrstraße" (Advanced settings for Routes). Is new with the recent CS2 v3 software update. Currently it has 2 parts, the left is just a duplication of the S88 trigger information available at the bottom of the main edit page. The Right contains a "Route Conditioning" feature that allows for the ability to only trigger the route if a 2nd condition exists

Note:
- this only applies to the S88 triggering - the route will operate if the manual button is pressed - regardless of the conditioning
- at this stage the only type of "condition" that can be used is another sensor

Quote:
BTW I will look at the "Review of Memory Conditioning Feature".

Please do, I am waiting for some examples of how people can actually make this a practical feature
Peter
Offline clapcott  
#10 Posted : 18 May 2013 10:50:41(UTC)
clapcott

New Zealand   
Joined: 12/12/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,321
Location: Wellington, New_Zealand
Originally Posted by: Janne75 Go to Quoted Post
I have also setup all my turnouts and a bit simplified track layout on the Layout page. After doing these Routes and Layout I'm really happy of the easier operation of my layout as before.

Best regards,
Janne

Just to be clear, once a Route is created in the Memory panels, it can also be referenced on the Layout Pane , in a logical place amongst the tracks .
The icon for this is on the "TOP LEFT" of the layout edit page. (the Split "S").

This way you do not have to switch between the the Layout and Memory panels

Note: While there is limited space above the Route icons for a meaningful description (i.e. it gets truncated). putting in a "good" description will be helpful on the Layout edit page as the full description is seen in the selection box.
Peter
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Offline Graham HO  
#11 Posted : 19 May 2013 02:11:05(UTC)
Graham HO

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/07/2008(UTC)
Posts: 120
Hi Janne - thanks for your input - clearly you had more initial success than I did with setting up the Memory Screen, but thanks to Peter's excellent instructions you have also been able to move on and enhance the Memory Screen capability. As you have experienced - I did not want to change individual 'switches' - in some cases 6 to 8 per circuit of each consist/train. There are 35 switches in total on the layout - some of which, have been a challenge to manage.

So for me there is a sense that the Memory will bring a new dimension - given the 'multi layered' nature of the track.

Now that I can 'activate' a Memory Route - there will not be the need to visually scan individual keyboards on a chosen route. I just want to sit back and watch my trains run - "at the touch of a button" - many thanks to Peter again.
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Offline Graham HO  
#12 Posted : 21 May 2013 06:52:19(UTC)
Graham HO

New Zealand   
Joined: 03/07/2008(UTC)
Posts: 120
Hi Peter - it is possible that you could answer another question related to CS2 Memory - I have built (yes built) a Feedback Dekoder to a design by the Swedish model rail fan and writer Rutger Friberg. I appreciate that this design is from the early/mid 1990's, but have no reason to believe that the componentry and capability are any different to an S88, save that there are only 8 outlets not 16.

A brief background - I have built and presently run 6 of his K83 type decoders - otherwise known as M80's together with similar Märklin K83's, Viessmann 5211' s and self assembly 5291's. The Friberg design is robust and has not given me any problems or strife in 5 years.

Having come through the 'Memory set-up' with your help - I have decided to test the Friberg Feedback S44 device connected to my CS2 with a 6 conductor ribbon cable and suitable plugs. At this stage there is no response on the Memory screen to an input from a push button connection [earth/Brown - and one of the circuits] on the S44 as per S88 set-up.

I have had the build quality of the device checked by a qualified Electronic Engineer on his own CS2 in Memory mode, and a Yellow spot appears in the appropriate place - line A - button A1 indicating that CS2 is attempting to connect to a solenoid device(s) in the track work. However when I try to replicate this sequence on my own CS2 there is no response.

Perhaps you could advise as to where some 'fine tuning' might be directed within CS2?

Many thanks
Graham





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