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Offline vilithejou  
#1 Posted : 27 May 2011 12:37:27(UTC)
vilithejou


Joined: 17/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 840
Location: Vic, Barcelona
In Märklin News announced a new model for insider.
It's a E17 111, complete neuconstruction!!!
Really a surprise
Joan Vilarrúbia
vilithejou@yahoo.es
Fan of Märklín, Kroko lover
Offline steventrain  
#2 Posted : 27 May 2011 13:28:25(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Picture and detail found on 3/2011 Club online view German (English not yet at the moment) today.

It is complete new tooling, metal body and MFX sounds Catalogue number 37061.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline Bigdaddynz  
#3 Posted : 27 May 2011 13:30:47(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 18,661
Location: New Zealand
Interesting, does it look a bit like this model? - this is a Roco E17


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Offline RayF  
#4 Posted : 27 May 2011 13:42:31(UTC)
RayF

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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Any chance of anybody posting a "cut and paste" for those outsiders in our group?
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline steventrain  
#5 Posted : 27 May 2011 13:48:53(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Originally Posted by: RayPayas Go to Quoted Post
Any chance of anybody posting a "cut and paste" for those outsiders in our group?


You need log in on Club website to see the pictures and detail.

Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline RayF  
#6 Posted : 27 May 2011 13:52:11(UTC)
RayF

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Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: RayPayas Go to Quoted Post
Any chance of anybody posting a "cut and paste" for those outsiders in our group?


You need log in on Club website to see the pictures and detail.



Yes.

I guess I'll have to wait a bit, then! Smile
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Marius in Africa  
#7 Posted : 27 May 2011 17:46:22(UTC)
Marius in Africa

South Africa   
Joined: 05/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 419
Location: Boksburg, Gauteng
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Interesting, does it look a bit like this model? - this is a Roco E17..


I would describe the green on the Marlin version as Khaki green and it does not have the white circling on the bump stops.
Marius in Africa

HO, ECoS 2, Märklin C-track, any country, any design, any era & any brand which i like.
Offline H0  
#8 Posted : 27 May 2011 21:13:25(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Picture and detail found on 3/2011 Club online view German (English not yet at the moment) today.

Thanks for the information, Joan and Stephen.

Deadline for orders: July 31, 2011. Price not yet known.

Only two axles powered (maybe a comeback of the E 18 frame?) and "el cheapo" sound module.

M* messed the photos up once again: the prototype pictures show the loco with both pantographs raised, the model always has only one raised pantograph (prototypically incorrect as it has old-style wipers with a single bar).

The Roco model shown here has new-style wipers (two bars), so raising a single pantograph is correct.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#9 Posted : 27 May 2011 23:16:43(UTC)
RayF

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Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline TimR  
#10 Posted : 28 May 2011 01:17:19(UTC)
TimR

Indonesia   
Joined: 16/08/2007(UTC)
Posts: 1,752
Location: Jakarta
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

Only two axles powered (maybe a comeback of the E 18 frame?) and "el cheapo" sound module.


Sounds like progress if they're making this one with DCM...
ThumbDown
Now collecting C-Sine models.
Offline steventrain  
#11 Posted : 28 May 2011 11:36:23(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
I guess price between 300 and 325 EUR.

Edit- 299 EUR on club order form - Stummi.

Edited by user 28 May 2011 21:43:19(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline H0  
#12 Posted : 28 May 2011 23:39:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
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Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: TimR Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

Only two axles powered (maybe a comeback of the E 18 frame?) and "el cheapo" sound module.

Sounds like progress if they're making this one with DCM...

OK, only speculation so far.
According to Insider News it's a completely new construction.
They don't write "centrally mounted motor". With two powered axles and a new design, it would be possible to power axles #2 and #5 of the model.
OTOH I still think they might recycle the trucks of the trusty E 18 design - powered axles would then be #4 and #5.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#13 Posted : 29 May 2011 00:24:55(UTC)
RayF

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Location: Gibraltar, Europe
My guess would be that they use a similar arrangement to the recent SDS versions of the E18, but with a small can type motor instead. Recently they've used good quality motors in their non-Hobby locos.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline I_love_Marklin_37538  
#14 Posted : 29 May 2011 11:15:19(UTC)
I_love_Marklin_37538


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My head just went LOL LOL LOL does it have operating sounds as well?
Offline H0  
#15 Posted : 29 May 2011 21:11:49(UTC)
H0


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Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: I_love_Marklin_37538 Go to Quoted Post
My head just went LOL LOL LOL does it have operating sounds as well?

"El Cheapo" serial operating sound (boring ventilation sound that stops when you activate the horn).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline I_love_Marklin_37538  
#16 Posted : 30 May 2011 01:15:26(UTC)
I_love_Marklin_37538


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Is the body metal or plastic?
Offline kariosls37  
#17 Posted : 30 May 2011 07:39:17(UTC)
kariosls37

New Zealand   
Joined: 02/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,067
Location: Auckland, New Zealand
Congrats to Marklin for making this model. It looks really interestingThumpUp
Another one for my wish list.
Offline vilithejou  
#18 Posted : 30 May 2011 07:58:20(UTC)
vilithejou


Joined: 17/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 840
Location: Vic, Barcelona
Originally Posted by: I_love_Marklin_37538 Go to Quoted Post
Is the body metal or plastic?


Metall body
Joan Vilarrúbia
vilithejou@yahoo.es
Fan of Märklín, Kroko lover
Offline jeehring  
#19 Posted : 30 May 2011 13:45:22(UTC)
jeehring


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Originally Posted by: RayPayas Go to Quoted Post
...'...).... Recently they've used good quality motors in their non-Hobby locos.


Yes Ray. Specially this Portescape or Portescape-type motor.....
But I bet for a trusty DCM motor....depending on the model all DCM + straight gears are not noisy, some of them are even very quiet (RE 4/4 II, etc....RE 6/6, ...)
They did it with Faulhaber : on a first range they buy a labellized motor.....If they are satisfied, then they deal with the manufacturer to buy exactly (or almost exactly) same motor in bulk....but non labelized...(about the Faulhaber type : there were no visible difference)
Offline steventrain  
#20 Posted : 30 May 2011 17:54:08(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Hi

37061 now on Marklin database with picture but no information at a present.

Click here >37061<
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline vilithejou  
#21 Posted : 30 May 2011 18:32:43(UTC)
vilithejou


Joined: 17/01/2004(UTC)
Posts: 840
Location: Vic, Barcelona
Originally Posted by: steventrain Go to Quoted Post
Hi

37061 now on Marklin database with picture but no information at a present.

Click here >37061<


In german have a description and price

Märklin Database of 37061 click here

Thank Steve
Joan Vilarrúbia
vilithejou@yahoo.es
Fan of Märklín, Kroko lover
Offline H0  
#22 Posted : 30 May 2011 22:02:02(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: vilithejou Go to Quoted Post
In german have a description and price

Description sez "motor with flywheel".
I guess this means no DCM.

Also available for Trix club members (#22172).
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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Offline RayF  
#23 Posted : 30 May 2011 22:26:25(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vilithejou Go to Quoted Post
In german have a description and price

Description sez "motor with flywheel".
I guess this means no DCM.

Also available for Trix club members (#22172).


Yes, you're right Tom. Let's hope it's a good quality can motor like the portescap, Faulhaber or Maxon.

It also confirms that the loco has the cheaper sound module with blower and horn sounds.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#24 Posted : 30 May 2011 23:47:43(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: RayPayas Go to Quoted Post
It also confirms that the loco has the cheaper sound module with blower and horn sounds.

They already wrote that in the Insider Club News, but they didn't mention the flywheel there.

The biggest unanswered question: will they power axles #2 and #5 or axles #4 and #5?
The former gives a better tractive weight.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline steventrain  
#25 Posted : 31 May 2011 20:11:06(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: vilithejou Go to Quoted Post
In german have a description and price

Description sez "motor with flywheel".
I guess this means no DCM.





Motor same as 37915 BR03.10?
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline steventrain  
#26 Posted : 31 May 2011 20:18:47(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
English edition 3/2011 now on Club online view to see more information on 37061.

Also Trix/LGB 3/2011 download in English as well.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline shannon  
#27 Posted : 01 June 2011 01:29:14(UTC)
shannon


Joined: 27/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 337
Location: Taipei,
Translating the descriptions of Marklin German version with Google.
It's so incredible the article can be smoothly translated and be easily reading in Google. Scared
I wonder if you can speak English and know the same meaning vocabularies in German you may speak German as well, right?

Gauge: H0 Era: III

Prototype:
Electric locomotive series E 17 of the German Federal Railroad (DB). Green bottles basic paint. With railroad lanterns. Solar panels on the cabs. Operating condition Approximately 1963.

Model:
With digital decoder mfx and controllable sound functions. Controlled high-performance drive with a flywheel. 2 axles powered. Traction tires. Cabs and engine room have interior details. Handles and other details separately applied. Detailed design of the roof equipment, with transverse arrangement of the supporting insulators on the current collectors, and the underlying bell insulators and grooved insulators. Changing direction of travel, three headlights and two red tail lights in conventional operation and can be controlled digitally. Peak signal to Lokseite 2 and 1 separately digitally switched off. If peak signal is turned off on both Lokseiten, then both sides of the double-A light function. Lighting with maintenance-free, warm white light emitting diodes (LED). Length over the buffers 18.3 cm.


Highlights:
Completely new tooling.
Metal.
With mfx decoder.
With fan noise and whistle.
Warm white light emitting diodes (LED).
Many separately applied details.

The electric locomotive 37 061 is being produced in 2011 in a time series only for Insider members.

This model can be found in a DC version in the Trix H0 assortment under item number 22 172 Trix exclusively for club members.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#28 Posted : 01 June 2011 08:35:49(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi,
I would be very interested to know what the German model train public think of this model.

What is their reaction to this model? Is it a hugely popular announcement?

Is it a must-have in the German modelling or hobby world?

Maybe the Stummi forum gives a clue, but I don't read German.
Perhaps Tom from Cologne has an idea.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline H0  
#29 Posted : 01 June 2011 21:31:26(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Maybe the Stummi forum gives a clue, but I don't read German.

Maybe the Google translation helps:
http://translate.google....p%3Fp%3D650620%23p650620

Some regret that the M* hand sample shows the same variation that was already made by Roco and Rivarossi.
Some say they already have an E 17 class model from Roco or Rivarossi and don't need another.
Other say they would never buy a Roco plastic model and they welcome the new M* metal model.

Several voices welcome an Insider model of an electric loco.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
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thanks 1 user liked this useful post by H0
Offline steventrain  
#30 Posted : 31 July 2011 16:59:12(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post


Deadline for orders: July 31, 2011. Price not yet known.



Deadline for orders date back to 31 August 2011.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline steventrain  
#31 Posted : 03 October 2011 22:02:01(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
37061 ready for delivery soon.
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline steventrain  
#32 Posted : 09 October 2011 22:15:32(UTC)
steventrain

United Kingdom   
Joined: 21/10/2004(UTC)
Posts: 31,601
Location: United Kingdom
Look but different model on stummi forum.

Need room for coupling.Bored

http://stummiforum.de/vi...48&start=200#p703351
Large Marklinist 3- Rails Layout with CS2/MS2/Boosters/C-track/favorites Electric class E03/BR103, E18/E118, E94, Crocodiles/Steam BR01, BR03, BR05, BR23, BR44, BR50, Big Boy.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#33 Posted : 10 October 2011 11:38:33(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Thanks Stephen.

I have just been reading those threads of the Stummi forum (Google translate), and I found it fascinating.
So many having a dig at Marklinists, and so much defence, I found it quite funny. I have learnt the Stummi is about all models, not just Marklin.

Anyway, one element of the debate is that Marklin in this model of the E17, had to install the leading axle a few mm short of the real position. This has upset quite a few people who either purchased or ordered the loco. One contributor described the axle position as a necessary design for running on R1 curves. And I guess that rings true. Many models have compromises to allow for home layouts.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline AshleyH  
#34 Posted : 10 October 2011 17:57:28(UTC)
AshleyH

United Kingdom   
Joined: 15/02/2008(UTC)
Posts: 693
Location: Bournemouth, Dorset
Yes, I just finished reading the Stummi thread.

OK I can accept that the positioning of the leading axles is wrong and the reason is probably the need to negotiate Radius 1 curves. But that is Märklin, look at the size of the wheels on the leading axles on the E18 and E19 models, undersized for the exact same reason.

This opens a wider debate. Should Märklin stop backwards compatibility and living in the past and from now on only build true scale models? They have tried this with their Trix brand, a number of exact scale models have been produced in the last 2 or 3 years, but with plastic bodies, E18, Traxx 2 etc. Maybe going head to head with Roco, LS Models etc, but many of these Trix models are now available on clearance for very low prices 80 to 80 Euros, so I guess they have not sold well.

Can Märklin be all things to all people?

Of more interest to me is the motor type and quality. It looks like the chassis may have been designed for Softdrive C Sine, but this has been replaced by an unknown DC motor. Disappointing that they have only fitted a cheap sound module. I thought we had seen the last of these.....
Offline H0  
#35 Posted : 10 October 2011 18:15:21(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: AshleyH Go to Quoted Post
But that is Märklin, look at the size of the wheels on the leading axles on the E18 and E19 models, undersized for the exact same reason.
The E 19 has larger runnig wheels than the E 18 - at least in 1:1, the Märklin models use the same wheel sizes. It's simply cheaper to re-use existing parts.

E 19 models with big wheels can also take radius 1.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline alonso231gery  
#36 Posted : 10 October 2011 19:13:46(UTC)
alonso231gery

Greece   
Joined: 24/08/2002(UTC)
Posts: 3,957
Location: Hellas (Athens)
I am surprised not to see another black and red smoking model. Sneaky
An outsider.
I'm looking for the owner of that horse. He's tall, blonde, he smokes a cigar, and he's a pig!
Offline applor  
#37 Posted : 11 October 2011 01:45:04(UTC)
applor

Australia   
Joined: 21/05/2004(UTC)
Posts: 1,653
Location: Brisbane, Queensland
Quote:
Disappointing that they have only fitted a cheap sound module. I thought we had seen the last of these


I personally do not mind the cheap sound modules on electrics. I find a horn sound is fine, though for an insider lok at premium price I would expect full sound.
modelling era IIIa (1951-1955) Germany
Offline jeehring  
#38 Posted : 11 October 2011 02:16:26(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: AshleyH Go to Quoted Post
But that is Märklin, look at the size of the wheels on the leading axles on the E18 and E19 models, undersized for the exact same reason.
The E 19 has larger runnig wheels than the E 18 - at least in 1:1, the Märklin models use the same wheel sizes. It's simply cheaper to re-use existing parts.

E 19 models with big wheels can also take radius 1.


....if my memory serves me correctly the difference is on the small wheels at each end of the frame.....and is only 100mm diameter (?)
So at 1:87 scale it is about 1.2 mm diameter.
It is visible only if you put the 2 kinds of wheels side by side.....
You know what....I have never, never, never, measured any of my models : I only look at them...Cool ..admire them...Wub ...and play ... I must be a poor fool..may be. Smile
What I prefer above all is having pictures of the real engine....and compare with my model : generally it gives me a lot of satisfaction....
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by jeehring
Offline H0  
#39 Posted : 11 October 2011 11:26:24(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post
What I prefer above all is having pictures of the real engine....and compare with my model : generally it gives me a lot of satisfaction....
I can understand that owners of the new E 17 are disappointed by the big void between buffers and running axle. The distance between buffers and running axle is bigger than it should be, making the void also bigger.

The running wheels of Märklin's E 19 are too small. You can easily see it if you have an E 19 from Fleischmann or Trix next to it.
I don't care about the smaller wheels, but they are not required to run on R1. No technical requirement for the smaller wheels, only economic reasons (cost cutting).

I wonder if there are technical reasons for the misplaced running axle on the E 17 - or maybe just economic reasons (using a part they had at hand ...).

If Märklin want to survive, they must grow in the "DC" market without shrinking in the "AC" market.
The new E 17 will have problems selling on the "DC" market (with Roco's E 17) - and even worse: many "AC" users will also prefer the Roco model.

Bad preconditions for a successful model.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline jeehring  
#40 Posted : 11 October 2011 11:37:05(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post
What I prefer above all is having pictures of the real engine....and compare with my model : generally it gives me a lot of satisfaction....
The running wheels of Märklin's E 19 are too small. You can easily see it if you have an E 19 from Fleischmann or Trix next to it.
.



That's exactly what I said : it may be visible only if you put the 2 types of wheel side by side....(and if we are searching for a difference ... ) .
Offline RayF  
#41 Posted : 11 October 2011 11:40:41(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
This is the only photo we have for reference, and is taken with a wide angle lens, making the problem look worse than it really is. Notice that the angle is such that the loco looks like it only has one buffer on each end! You cannot compare this to a technical drawing which shows no perspective at all.

UserPostedImage

I would like to see a photo taken with the loco at a slight angle, or with the camera in line with one end of the loco.
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#42 Posted : 11 October 2011 11:44:58(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 6,653
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post

.....

I wonder if there are technical reasons for the misplaced running axle on the E 17 - or maybe just economic reasons (using a part they had at hand ...).

If Märklin want to survive, they must grow in the "DC" market without shrinking in the "AC" market.
The new E 17 will have problems selling on the "DC" market (with Roco's E 17) - and even worse: many "AC" users will also prefer the Roco model.

Bad preconditions for a successful model.



Hi Tom,

My view is that Marklin know their market well enough.
They are probably testing various models and types, for market reaction.
With modern CAD and manufacturing systems, it is quicker and cheaper than before.

If a model is not successful, they will have others ready.

For many contributors here and on Stummis, Marklin do make desirable models.
The desire is there for many reasons, and does not necessarily include "exact" scale.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep II-III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail HO (Queensland Australia, UK, USA) - 3 rail OO (English Hornby Dublo) - old clockwork O gauge - Live Steam 90mm (3.1/2 inch) gauge.
Offline jeehring  
#43 Posted : 11 October 2011 11:52:13(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post
....

I wonder if there are technical reasons for the misplaced running axle on the E 17 - or maybe just economic reasons (using a part they had at hand ...).

.


How can they be sure of a "misplaced axle" ...if the model is not available on the market ? BigGrin
Only with pictures of the model ?
Did they give exact measurements of the prototype, of the model, of what it should be ? The answer is : NO. ( correct me if I'm wrong)
Offline shannon  
#44 Posted : 11 October 2011 11:58:41(UTC)
shannon


Joined: 27/01/2005(UTC)
Posts: 337
Location: Taipei,
What is the difference between model and toy ?

The model is to aim at the exact scale and realistic look.

Is Marklin a model or toy manufacturer after all ?
Offline RayF  
#45 Posted : 11 October 2011 12:16:27(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Originally Posted by: shannon Go to Quoted Post
What is the difference between model and toy ?

The model is to aim at the exact scale and realistic look.

Is Marklin a model or toy manufacturer after all ?


Shannon, this is a long running debate!

All manufacturers aim to get as close as possible to the real thing, but have to make compromises so that the model runs well on model tracks. This is especially true of Marklin who like to claim that their trains are compatible from the 1950s to the present.

As to the questions of toys, I think all models are also toys. Do we not play with them? Toys are something we use to amuse ourselves or to fill our spare time. There is no difference. Of course, toys aimed for children are different in that they also have to be safe and easy to use without breaking, but I don't think anyone would call an insider model a child's toy!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline H0  
#46 Posted : 11 October 2011 12:18:53(UTC)
H0


Joined: 16/02/2004(UTC)
Posts: 15,254
Location: DE-NW
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post
How can they be sure of a "misplaced axle" ...if the model is not available on the market ? BigGrin
The model is available on the market - and there are several pictures on Stummi's Forum.

The new E 17 comes with a visible cog wheel. Another Märklinism that pi**es some potential customers off.
Regards
Tom
---
"In all of the gauges, we particularly emphasize a high level of quality, the best possible fidelity to the prototype, and absolute precision. You will see that in all of our products." (from Märklin New Items Brochure 2015, page 1) ROFLBTCUTS
UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#47 Posted : 11 October 2011 12:27:54(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks to Tom I found some more pictures on Stummis forum. In this one, where the perpective effect is nullified, you can see that there is no significant offset in the position of the axle. I think it looks fine!

UserPostedImage
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline jeehring  
#48 Posted : 11 October 2011 12:31:57(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: shannon Go to Quoted Post
What is the difference between model and toy ?

?

This kind of difference is something that you made in your brain. It is not from the nature of the object.
Give a child a few assembled Lego cubes : it will represent for him the most beautiful LOK of the world. Just because he has a tremendous imagination.
Give an adult a real helicoptere : he will be abble to tell you that it is his favorite toy .
As we are getting old we loose more or less capacity of imagination and many of us feel to be "forced" to refere to reality (after all we have spent such a long time into "reality" now...BigGrin )...that's why they spend their time to measure millimeters by millimeters...The evolution of all the comments about MRR , the necessity of measuring, etc , show one thing : MRR customers are getting old ...
....& as we have a bad eyesight , looking at our models : it just strains your eyes ....BigGrin BigGrinBigGrin(poor joke)
Offline jeehring  
#49 Posted : 11 October 2011 12:40:27(UTC)
jeehring


Joined: 25/09/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,786
Location: ,
Originally Posted by: H0 Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: jeehring Go to Quoted Post
How can they be sure of a "misplaced axle" ...if the model is not available on the market ? BigGrin
The model is available on the market - and there are several pictures on Stummi's Forum.

The new E 17 comes with a visible cog wheel. Another Märklinism that pi**es some potential customers off.


a visible cogwheel.... where ?... on the roof ?
Stummi forums often is a medium for marketting campaigns , as well...
(Stummi forums was also the forum on which they started to say that Marklin forced their dealers not TO MAKE more than 10% discount...BigGrin )

Let's wait for MIBA or MOBA magazine - or any good magazine - review....to know the truth about measurements...
Above all I 'll try to make my opinion by myself...
Offline RayF  
#50 Posted : 11 October 2011 13:12:22(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,838
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Roland,

I simpathise with your views. It seems that any new model from Marklin is an excuse for the "Marklin bashers" to start complaining.

Personally, I welcome every new model, whether I intend to buy it or not. Some have errors in the details, others might have compromises from the scale, and others might have reduced functions, but at least it's a new model.

Not all babies are beautiful and healthy...
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
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