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Offline Oscar  
#1 Posted : 24 January 2010 18:39:09(UTC)
Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: ,
UserPostedImage

This old little 3000 was a non-runner. Its motor seemed to be fine yet the loco would not move. If I applied more voltage, eventually the relay would be activated without the loco moving at all. Today I took it almost completely apart to figure out the cause of the problem. In one word: filth. Turned out there was a mixture of grease, oil and dirt between the wheels and the chassis which basically glued the wheels in place. It took me a long time to clean it thoroughy because the amount of gunk was unbelievable. After cleaning all the gears, axles etc I put the loco back together again. A mild drop of oil on the designated places and she moved as soon as the transformer control left the "zero" position ThumpUp. Cleaning and carefully putting the wheels and axles back in also rid the loco of a nasty wobble it had somehow developed over the years (I eventually traced this to the wheels being squeezed to tightly on their axles, eliminating any play whatsoever). It now runs very, very smoothly and at low speeds too. That's the virtue of these old beasts: they're purely mechanical and electrical and if you're moderately comfortable with "how stuff works" then you'll be able to fix almost anything Woot. By contrast, when one of my digital locos started to cause short-outs recently I could not locate the source of the problem. Heck, despite following the instructions in the booklet to the letter I could not even open the model up! I had to bring it back to the shop under warranty and now will have to wait 6 weeks or so before I get it back Mad. Don't get me wrong: Märklin is producing great stuff these days, but if something breaks down then in most cases there's not much that you can do to fix it.

Anyway, an afternoon well spent!
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Offline Caplin  
#2 Posted : 24 January 2010 19:28:39(UTC)
Caplin


Joined: 23/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 2,497
Location: Denmark
Well done Oscar. Isn't just a nice feeling when an old timer comes to life again. Smile
Regards,
Benny - Outsider and MFDWPL

UserPostedImage
Offline RayF  
#3 Posted : 24 January 2010 19:34:36(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,705
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Wonderful!

Well done Oscar, you rescued the old lady!
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline intruder  
#4 Posted : 24 January 2010 21:14:40(UTC)
intruder

Norway   
Joined: 16/08/2006(UTC)
Posts: 5,532
Location: Akershus, Norway
Very good, Oscar.

It's a good feeling when a locomotive starts working agin.
Best regards Svein, Norway
grumpy old sod
Offline agvera  
#5 Posted : 25 January 2010 01:50:13(UTC)
agvera

Argentina   
Joined: 04/02/2009(UTC)
Posts: 146
Location: Nordelta, Buenos Aires
Well done Oscar!
I love those oldies and keeping them on the rails. It is an important piece of Märklin history and ours too.
Cheers
Alberto
era II + III + IV
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Offline LionelMPC  
#6 Posted : 25 January 2010 02:09:36(UTC)
LionelMPC


Joined: 03/05/2005(UTC)
Posts: 212
Location: Washington state, USA
Great job!

For me, these old models have a certain charm that new locomotives, as great as they are, just can't quite match.

-James
Offline river6109  
#7 Posted : 25 January 2010 03:57:13(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,164
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Oscar wrote:

By contrast, when one of my digital locos started to cause short-outs recently I could not locate the source of the problem. Heck, despite following the instructions in the booklet to the letter I could not even open the model up! I had to bring it back to the shop under warranty and now will have to wait 6 weeks or so before I get it back Mad. Don't get me wrong: Märklin is producing great stuff these days, but if something breaks down then in most cases there's not much that you can do to fix it.

Same applies to cars of today !

congratulation of bringing 1,000.001 back to life.
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by river6109
Offline Ranjit  
#8 Posted : 25 January 2010 04:42:07(UTC)
Ranjit

Malaysia   
Joined: 18/06/2003(UTC)
Posts: 2,945
Location: Chennai, Tamil Nadu, INDIA
Great, Oscar! Btw, how old is the 3000?

Cheers,
Ranjit
"If you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need" - Marcus Tullius Cicero
"Nothing is as powerful as an idea whose time has come" - Victor Marie Hugo
"If you can dream it, you can do it" - Walt Disney
Offline river6109  
#9 Posted : 25 January 2010 05:08:59(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,164
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Ranjit wrote:
Great, Oscar! Btw, how old is the 3000?

Cheers,
Ranjit


off the subject:
If it is a 3000/1000.8 with roadnumber 90068, it could be worth a bit of money today. (misprint)

This is a Production tablet from the Märklin loco Cat, No. 3000


3000/1000.1: Tenderloco, "C" (DB BR 89) black, plastic
Inscription: "CM 800" , 2 Headlights, Road Number: 89005, Hand lever, Rubbertyres, 11cm, Production year: 4 Years, 1953-1956

1000.2: dito, but Road Number: 89028, Production Year: 2 Years, 1957-1958

1000.3: as 1000.1 but 3 Headlights, Inscription: "3000" Road Number: 89028, Hand lever,
Production Year: 3 Years, 1959-1961

1000.4: as 1000.1 although Hosuing transparent / special edition

1000.5: as 1000.1, although 3 Headlights, Inscription: "3000", Road Number: 89005,
Hand lever, Production year: 1962

1000.6: as 1000.1 with 3 Headlights, Inscription: "3000", Road Number 89005, No hand lever, Production Year: 5 Years, 1963-1967

1000.7: as 1000.1 but 3 Headlights, Inscription: "CM 800", ("3000" deleted), Road Number: 89006 and DB signet on both sides on raised plate printed, No Hand lever, Production Year: 6 Years, 1968-1973

1000.8: as 1000.7 but Road Number: 90068 (misprint), Production Year: around 1970

1000.9: as 1000.1 but 3 Headlights, Inscription: "CM 800", ("3000" deleted),
Road Number: 89006 and DB signet on both sides on flat surface printed, No Hand lever, Production Year: from 1974 onwards.


1000.20: in digital Set 2602, Production Year: 5 years, 1987-1991.


regards.,
John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
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Offline RayF  
#10 Posted : 25 January 2010 10:45:50(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,705
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
Thanks for that table, John. Never seen them called "1000" before though. (?)

Based on that table, my two Br89s are a 3000.2 (CM800, 89028, 2 headlights, reversing lever), and 3000.5 (3000, 89005, 3 headlights, reversing lever).
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
Offline Oscar  
#11 Posted : 25 January 2010 11:00:32(UTC)
Oscar


Joined: 25/11/2003(UTC)
Posts: 783
Location: ,
Ranjit wrote:
Great, Oscar! Btw, how old is the 3000? Cheers, Ranjit


Mine is the fifth subversion, i.e. 1962. By the way, as beautifully as it may run now, for some reason it tends to become quite hot when I run it for a while (even with light loads). Looks like another Sunday afternoon will be needed to sort that out!
Offline river6109  
#12 Posted : 25 January 2010 13:20:23(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,164
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
RayPayas wrote:
Thanks for that table, John. Never seen them called "1000" before though. (?)

Based on that table, my two Br89s are a 3000.2 (CM800, 89028, 2 headlights, reversing lever), and 3000.5 (3000, 89005, 3 headlights, reversing lever).

Kolls, use(d) a subcategoty: 1000
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline river6109  
#13 Posted : 25 January 2010 14:06:09(UTC)
river6109

Australia   
Joined: 22/01/2009(UTC)
Posts: 13,164
Location: On 1965 Märklin Boulevard just around from Roco Square
Oscar wrote:
Mine is the fifth subversion, i.e. 1962. By the way, as beautifully as it may run now, for some reason it tends to become quite hot when I run it for a while (even with light loads). Looks like another Sunday afternoon will be needed to sort that out!

Have a look at the 3 pole Armature and see if all wires are connected.
Eeach section has 2 wires soldered to the rim of the copperplate.


UserPostedImage

UserPostedImage

another task you can perform, the swiveling contact points of the reversing unit.

regards.,
John
https://www.youtube.com/river6109
https://www.youtube.com/6109river
5 years in Destruction mode
50 years in Repairing mode
Offline rrf  
#14 Posted : 27 January 2010 02:20:42(UTC)
rrf

United States   
Joined: 15/11/2009(UTC)
Posts: 264
Location: Silver Spring, Maryland USA
river6109 wrote:

If it is a 3000/1000.8 with roadnumber 90068, it could be worth a bit of money today. (misprint)

This is a Production tablet from the Märklin loco Cat, No. 3000

<3000's I wish I owned removed>


1000.7: as 1000.1 but 3 Headlights, Inscription: "CM 800", ("3000" deleted), Road Number: 89006 and DB signet on both sides on raised plate printed, No Hand lever, Production Year: 6 Years, 1968-1973

1000.8: as 1000.7 but Road Number: 90068 (misprint), Production Year: around 1970

1000.9: as 1000.1 but 3 Headlights, Inscription: "CM 800", ("3000" deleted),
Road Number: 89006 and DB signet on both sides on flat surface printed, No Hand lever, Production Year: from 1974 onwards.


1000.20: in digital Set 2602, Production Year: 5 years, 1987-1991.




John,

Your post got me to run downstairs to check my 70's vintage 3000Smile Of course it's a 1000.7, not the rare misprint. She was purchased summer of '73, the box is dated 10/71.

I was under the impression that CM800 was an old catalog number from the 50's. I'm surprised that it would be inscribed on models from twenty years later. By the way, where would one find this inscription? I looked on my locomotive but didn't see it.

Also, where would my 1992 vintage 3000 fit into this history? Oh and pardon my ignorance, what is the hand lever on the early models?

Thanks,
Rob
Mackenrode Wende Bahn
Offline RayF  
#15 Posted : 27 January 2010 09:52:18(UTC)
RayF

Gibraltar   
Joined: 14/03/2005(UTC)
Posts: 15,705
Location: Gibraltar, Europe
rrf wrote:
John,

Oh and pardon my ignorance, what is the hand lever on the early models?

Thanks,


On models up the early 1960s, there was a lever on the model to allow you to reverse the loco direction without using the controller. I find it useful when there is more than one loco on the track and you don't want all of them to reverse. The lever manually switched the reversing relay inside.

In this photo you can make out the lever just behind the vaccuum pump beside the boiler:

UserPostedImage
Ray
Mostly Marklin.Selection of different eras and European railways
Small C track layout, control by MS2, 100+ trains but run 4-5 at a time.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by RayF
Offline Joseph Meiring  
#16 Posted : 27 January 2010 23:15:02(UTC)
Joseph Meiring

South Africa   
Joined: 27/12/2009(UTC)
Posts: 1,157
Location: Western Cape Cape Town
wow, just did he same to my old 3000; stripped and cleaned it thoroughly, I got it in 1959 - made in Germany, no "West Germany" of course; such a lovely old "workhorse", also with the little hand lever. Had to replace many bits n pieces, but is working so smoothly now, gosh, the memories just come flooding back to when I first got it as a Xmas gift....used to watch it going round n round on the kitchen floor for hours...what bliss!
I also had to do some repairs to my 3021, purchased in 1972; the pick up shoe was actually touching the side rail on curves and curve turnouts, (M track),had to do some serious bending on the shoe, but all is well now - I think the grandkids were a little bit too rough with it of late....could also be that some of my curve turnouts are also VERY old, and also in need of repairs? Could this be the time to switch to C track turnouts? are they more "efficient" than M....
happy railroading
Joe Meiring
Cape Town - getting ready 4 the world cup soon......
Offline Mark5  
#17 Posted : 13 March 2012 10:15:27(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,204
Location: Montreal
Great stuff, just saying on the new analog thread that I have 6 of these 3000s and want to get them all up and running.
I think of them as the old VW beetle of the Marklin world. Mass production, easy to repair (hoping, since I don't know yet!) and popular... I read in a old catalogue that there were 5 million of the 3000 model made and that was years ago. Wondering what the total is now.

Cheers!
- Mark
Interested in history of DB, DR and FS circa 1955 to 1965. Fan of signals, catenary, stations and yards.
Father of four girls running an exhibition layout, the Mädchenbahn--
https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=30519&b=1
Large version of my present avatar-- https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=29910&b=1
Source of previous avatar in "zoomify" detail-- http://bit.ly/1QqMgL0
Offline foumaro  
#18 Posted : 13 March 2012 14:58:49(UTC)
foumaro

Greece   
Joined: 08/12/2004(UTC)
Posts: 4,366
Location: Attiki Athens Greece
Welldone my friend,these great classics deserve our respect.You done great job.
Offline Ian555  
#19 Posted : 13 March 2012 15:01:15(UTC)
Ian555

Scotland   
Joined: 04/06/2009(UTC)
Posts: 19,986
Location: Scotland
Hi all,

My first Märklin Loco, was of course a CM800 way back in 1959.

She still runs today on my 1960's Münstertal layout.

I have 3 of those lovely little 3000 Loco's.

Ian.

Offline Johnvr  
#20 Posted : 13 March 2012 19:42:47(UTC)
Johnvr

South Africa   
Joined: 03/10/2010(UTC)
Posts: 1,198
Location: Cape Town, South Africa
I have 2 x CM800 and 3 x 3000.

I used them recently on my "Matterhorn Project" because they respond when called.
No derailments too on old M-Track.
Just busy around the track.
And visitors always love them.

I leant how things work by opening up the 3000 loco and prodding with a screwdriver !

Regards,BigGrin
John
Offline 20-VOLT-AC  
#21 Posted : 14 March 2012 21:44:12(UTC)
20-VOLT-AC

United Kingdom   
Joined: 27/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 250
Location: united kingdom
Good job Oscar, another classic on the rails again !

Neil.
1950's Marklin Fan .
Offline sudibarba  
#22 Posted : 15 March 2012 02:54:02(UTC)
sudibarba

United States   
Joined: 28/07/2006(UTC)
Posts: 873
Location: Augusta, GA USA
Great Oscar. I, like I think you do, really enjoy cleaning and reviving the older motors. I have plenty of new ones but maintaining and upgrading the old ones is my favorite part of the hobby.
Eric
Offline stjohnso  
#23 Posted : 25 March 2012 10:55:33(UTC)
stjohnso

United States   
Joined: 26/02/2012(UTC)
Posts: 2
Location: chicago
Got my 3000 working....it fell over dead today and I fixed it with a stone knife and a broomstick.

I just had a problem with an old 3000 that I just got from Trainz. I was setting up for G-kids and 3000 fell off track at a bad spot. Tipped over. Now 3000 didn't run. Lights OK, solenoid worked. Fiddled with manual lever arm on reverser because engine would sit and vibrate...solenoid trying to engage. Looked at reverser leads off driver windings and wires were pretty fried right at junction. Solder job? I'm no solderer. Avoid avoid. Me think hard, save soldering job for others. Looked at wiring diagram and probed for continuity. Thought about the 3000 circuit diagram I had. The two coils share a common solder joint...the "main solder joint". Power was distributed from there. Looked at Main motor solder joints and resistors. I was getting 400 ohms on various places when I should have gotten zero or sometimes many more. Other loc's showed many more in same spots. On powered track.. Milli-amp meter said some power was getting to the main windings. I could see solenoid got plenty and from the shared "main solder joint"...but only when I gave the track the 24volt goose. Light was really bright and solenoid arm activated fine...must be getting taking too much juice and trying to activate itself. 3000 sat on track, light on and just buzzed softly when I let up on Tranny. I could make buzz stop with my finger. I could even "help" the gears turn with my fingernail but lok would not move. OK...seemed some power was on the rotor...but not much. Bad field coils on main core? Looked hard. Nope...just those stupid fried leads. Were they leaky?...well, they both had a little voltage...9 volts but no real current..moving reverser didn't change anything and reverser ground still provided good continuity. I couldn't test leads directly without scraping off gooey insulation but I kept getting something through the leads...that would be resistance and a few milliamps right on the solder joints and on the activator ground piece that the main solenoid arm moved that cam thing that sits on a vertical spring. Cam itself provided alternate ground to field windings and there was no resistance to ground. It wasn't a grounding issue. Hmm...Was it a current distribution issue? Main rotor windings and core windings not taking their share and solenoid had to take up the difference. A current division thing. Not sure the details but seemed likely. Then I saw those little brass springy things by the resistor just off the main solder junction....OMG....those must be the rotor brushes...hmm...bad contact...bad brushes? (like I'm an electrical person?...never had a circuits class in my life...just a few Ohms and Ahs from monkying with my Marklin as a kid (seriously) and then suffering through it in Physics and math). Nothing made sense until I remembered the 3000 stopped when it fell on right side. That was the Brush side...AHA...the Brushes were loose! One lost partial contact with rotor!...That was were the resistance was actually developing. Couldn't test brushes though...I looked and saw the springy things...wasn't in its little brush groove...the spring wire itself was too long. It simply hit the side of the brush housing and the brush rattled loose when the train fell over. Now that's an issue for a rehab person putting in brushes....hint hint! How much current distribution do you get? So, the way the reverser works is that the spring and spring lever arm must be balanced with respect to the forces developed by the main motor at 24 volt stall. So, if the brushes get less contact, the main rotor gets weak and the solenoid winding potential takes on extra potential at all times and buzzing happens if lok stalls and you get max current flow. The electromagnet would try to activate very gently at 60 hz! Yes...I see it all now..the solenoid arm spring lever-arm can be bent to compensate for changes in power distribution so that the reverser works in balance. Like a teeter toter...one side goes up the other goes down and the main solder junction is the pivot. Or so I think. So, for me..the reverser in the 3000 evidently had enough potential to buzz but not activate. That meant the Main coils were "too light" and the reverser side bumped on the ground. Well, once I saw the spring actually hit the side of the little brush holder and wouldn't do its job that is...making the brush touch the rotor hard enough to get contact and take its share of energy (weight), I took tweezers and nail cutter dikes to the end of the wire and "gave it to the cat". I Cut off 1/128 th in. Moved the copper mesh springy one a bit and it was OK. Put frame back on track and PRESTO CHANGO! It worked. Yay...and for all those out there...analog is fun too.
stjohnso attached the following image(s):
3000%20diagram.jpg
3000%20diag%20key.jpg
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Offline BR01097  
#24 Posted : 25 March 2012 18:44:55(UTC)
BR01097

United States   
Joined: 17/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Denver, Colo. USA
Quote:
It now runs very, very smoothly and at low speeds too. That's the virtue of these old beasts: they're purely mechanical and electrical and if you're moderately comfortable with "how stuff works" then you'll be able to fix almost anything . By contrast, when one of my digital locos started to cause short-outs recently I could not locate the source of the problem. Heck, despite following the instructions in the booklet to the letter I could not even open the model up! I had to bring it back to the shop under warranty and now will have to wait 6 weeks or so before I get it back . Don't get me wrong: Märklin is producing great stuff these days, but if something breaks down then in most cases there's not much that you can do to fix it.

Anyway, an afternoon well spent!






Can't have said it better myself!


____________________________________________________________________________

Collector of Märklin fine-quality trains since 1966.




Offline BR01097  
#25 Posted : 25 March 2012 18:49:17(UTC)
BR01097

United States   
Joined: 17/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 228
Location: Denver, Colo. USA
Originally Posted by: Johnvr Go to Quoted Post
I have 2 x CM800 and 3 x 3000.

I used them recently on my "Matterhorn Project" because they respond when called.
No derailments too on old M-Track.
Just busy around the track.
And visitors always love them.

I leant how things work by opening up the 3000 loco and prodding with a screwdriver !

Regards,BigGrin
John





Doesn't the "Matterhorn Project" involve Enrico Ferme and a squash court under a Chicago stadium? (I thought that was secret.)


____________________________________________________________________________

Collector of Märklin fine-quality trains since 1966.




Offline john black  
#26 Posted : 01 April 2012 13:15:53(UTC)
john black

United States   
Joined: 22/04/2004(UTC)
Posts: 12,139
Location: New York, NY
Congratulations, Oscar - for bringing back the old girl to duty, again Laugh Cool
I hope no one visits a poor Southener's layout in Brooklyn. Intruders beware of Gators.
AT&SF, D&RGW, T&P, SP, WP, UP, BN, NYC, ARR, epI-III - analog & digital Marklin Classics only.
CU#6021 FX-MOTOROLA DIGITAL SYSTEM. Fast as lightning and no trouble. What else ...
Outlaw Member of BIG JUHAN's OUTSIDER CLUB. With the most members, worldwide

Offline Mark5  
#27 Posted : 11 April 2012 18:03:42(UTC)
Mark5

Canada   
Joined: 29/01/2012(UTC)
Posts: 1,204
Location: Montreal
Originally Posted by: stjohnso Go to Quoted Post
Got my 3000 working....it fell over dead today and I fixed it with a stone knife and a broomstick.

I just had a problem with an old 3000 that I just got from Trainz... [...] ... [...] ...Well, once I saw the spring actually hit the side of the little brush holder and wouldn't do its job that is...making the brush touch the rotor hard enough to get contact and take its share of energy (weight), I took tweezers and nail cutter dikes to the end of the wire and "gave it to the cat". I Cut off 1/128 th in. Moved the copper mesh springy one a bit and it was OK. Put frame back on track and PRESTO CHANGO! It worked. Yay...and for all those out there...analog is fun too.


Whoa ... that was quite a saga, but glad you wrote it, because made me think through all the steps.

Moral of the story seems to be, always check the brushes first.

Cheers on getting another 3000 on the rails!
- Mark

Interested in history of DB, DR and FS circa 1955 to 1965. Fan of signals, catenary, stations and yards.
Father of four girls running an exhibition layout, the Mädchenbahn--
https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=30519&b=1
Large version of my present avatar-- https://www.marklin-user...rce.ashx?i=29910&b=1
Source of previous avatar in "zoomify" detail-- http://bit.ly/1QqMgL0
Offline MNunez  
#28 Posted : 26 September 2018 03:51:10(UTC)
MNunez

United States   
Joined: 26/09/2018(UTC)
Posts: 1
Location: Rhode Island, Providence
Originally Posted by: Oscar Go to Quoted Post
UserPostedImage

This old little 3000 was a non-runner. Its motor seemed to be fine yet the loco would not move. If I applied more voltage, eventually the relay would be activated without the loco moving at all. Today I took it almost completely apart to figure out the cause of the problem. In one word: filth. Turned out there was a mixture of grease, oil and dirt between the wheels and the chassis which basically glued the wheels in place. It took me a long time to clean it thoroughy because the amount of gunk was unbelievable. After cleaning all the gears, axles etc I put the loco back together again. A mild drop of oil on the designated places and she moved as soon as the transformer control left the "zero" position ThumpUp. Cleaning and carefully putting the wheels and axles back in also rid the loco of a nasty wobble it had somehow developed over the years (I eventually traced this to the wheels being squeezed to tightly on their axles, eliminating any play whatsoever). It now runs very, very smoothly and at low speeds too. That's the virtue of these old beasts: they're purely mechanical and electrical and if you're moderately comfortable with "how stuff works" then you'll be able to fix almost anything Woot. By contrast, when one of my digital locos started to cause short-outs recently I could not locate the source of the problem. Heck, despite following the instructions in the booklet to the letter I could not even open the model up! I had to bring it back to the shop under warranty and now will have to wait 6 weeks or so before I get it back Mad. Don't get me wrong: Märklin is producing great stuff these days, but if something breaks down then in most cases there's not much that you can do to fix it.

Anyway, an afternoon well spent!


Congrats. By the way, I have a CM800 and need to replace a headlight. Any idea how/where I can get one?

Manuel Nunez

Offline Markus Schild  
#29 Posted : 26 September 2018 07:21:38(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,802
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi Manuel,

Welcome to the forum.

The CM800 uses two bulbs Märklin 600000. They are still available. If you don't have a dealer near you, these can be obtained from Ebay or other mail-order dealers.

Regards

Markus

Offline Steve Hurd  
#30 Posted : 25 October 2018 14:33:38(UTC)
Steve Hurd

United States   
Joined: 25/10/2018(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Idaho, Jerome
Originally Posted by: Oscar Go to Quoted Post
UserPostedImage

This old little 3000 was a non-runner. Its motor seemed to be fine yet the loco would not move. If I applied more voltage, eventually the relay would be activated without the loco moving at all. Today I took it almost completely apart to figure out the cause of the problem. In one word: filth. Turned out there was a mixture of grease, oil and dirt between the wheels and the chassis which basically glued the wheels in place. It took me a long time to clean it thoroughy because the amount of gunk was unbelievable. After cleaning all the gears, axles etc I put the loco back together again. A mild drop of oil on the designated places and she moved as soon as the transformer control left the "zero" position ThumpUp. Cleaning and carefully putting the wheels and axles back in also rid the loco of a nasty wobble it had somehow developed over the years (I eventually traced this to the wheels being squeezed to tightly on their axles, eliminating any play whatsoever). It now runs very, very smoothly and at low speeds too. That's the virtue of these old beasts: they're purely mechanical and electrical and if you're moderately comfortable with "how stuff works" then you'll be able to fix almost anything Woot. By contrast, when one of my digital locos started to cause short-outs recently I could not locate the source of the problem. Heck, despite following the instructions in the booklet to the letter I could not even open the model up! I had to bring it back to the shop under warranty and now will have to wait 6 weeks or so before I get it back Mad. Don't get me wrong: Märklin is producing great stuff these days, but if something breaks down then in most cases there's not much that you can do to fix it.

Anyway, an afternoon well spent!


Oscar can you help me to replace the headlight on my engine? It is the same model.
Offline Steve Hurd  
#31 Posted : 25 October 2018 14:35:15(UTC)
Steve Hurd

United States   
Joined: 25/10/2018(UTC)
Posts: 6
Location: Idaho, Jerome
Originally Posted by: Steve Hurd Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Oscar Go to Quoted Post
UserPostedImage

This old little 3000 was a non-runner. Its motor seemed to be fine yet the loco would not move. If I applied more voltage, eventually the relay would be activated without the loco moving at all. Today I took it almost completely apart to figure out the cause of the problem. In one word: filth. Turned out there was a mixture of grease, oil and dirt between the wheels and the chassis which basically glued the wheels in place. It took me a long time to clean it thoroughy because the amount of gunk was unbelievable. After cleaning all the gears, axles etc I put the loco back together again. A mild drop of oil on the designated places and she moved as soon as the transformer control left the "zero" position ThumpUp. Cleaning and carefully putting the wheels and axles back in also rid the loco of a nasty wobble it had somehow developed over the years (I eventually traced this to the wheels being squeezed to tightly on their axles, eliminating any play whatsoever). It now runs very, very smoothly and at low speeds too. That's the virtue of these old beasts: they're purely mechanical and electrical and if you're moderately comfortable with "how stuff works" then you'll be able to fix almost anything Woot. By contrast, when one of my digital locos started to cause short-outs recently I could not locate the source of the problem. Heck, despite following the instructions in the booklet to the letter I could not even open the model up! I had to bring it back to the shop under warranty and now will have to wait 6 weeks or so before I get it back Mad. Don't get me wrong: Märklin is producing great stuff these days, but if something breaks down then in most cases there's not much that you can do to fix it.

Anyway, an afternoon well spent!


Oscar can you help me to replace the headlight on my engine? It is the same model.
My Email is Hurdstevenr@yahoo.com. My name is Steve any info or sites that will help me are appreciated


Offline Soest  
#32 Posted : 02 November 2018 18:11:20(UTC)
Soest


Joined: 05/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 188
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
I picked up a CM800 at my local train store for the equivalent of about $15 -20 Cdn. It would reverse but would not run forward. The problem was a broken wire from the coil to the reversing mechanism. Trouble was the wire was broken right by where it passed through the coil housing. I could only see the wire with a magnifying glass but managed to maneuver it out to the side where I put some insulating tape underneath it and managed to get some old lead solder to adhere to the end. This then gave me an attachment point to solder a new wire to the reversing mechanism. Bingo she goes forward. It has some chassis distortion where the screw attaches the housing to the chassis - zinc pest? The housing fits on the chassis but I cannot secure it with a screw. I also find that the traction tires are very hard and provide little traction. I made a half heated attempt to remove them but they seemed petrified. No matter it now pulls three early 327's some 60 years after it was made.

Mike
Why do grown men play with trains?
Their wives insist they are insane
But their dreams they won't let down the drain
'Cause there ain't no thing so hard to lose as those disappearing railway blues.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Soest
Offline cookee_nz  
#33 Posted : 02 November 2018 23:01:32(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,509
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: Soest Go to Quoted Post
I picked up a CM800 at my local train store for the equivalent of about $15 -20 Cdn. It would reverse but would not run forward. The problem was a broken wire from the coil to the reversing mechanism. Trouble was the wire was broken right by where it passed through the coil housing. I could only see the wire with a magnifying glass but managed to maneuver it out to the side where I put some insulating tape underneath it and managed to get some old lead solder to adhere to the end. This then gave me an attachment point to solder a new wire to the reversing mechanism. Bingo she goes forward. It has some chassis distortion where the screw attaches the housing to the chassis - zinc pest? The housing fits on the chassis but I cannot secure it with a screw. I also find that the traction tires are very hard and provide little traction. I made a half heated attempt to remove them but they seemed petrified. No matter it now pulls three early 327's some 60 years after it was made.

Mike


You were lucky to be able to repair that wire, sometimes they break where there is just nothing to grab. Well done.

The CM800/3000 is not known for Zinkpest, from your description it sounds like maybe the screw thread has been stripped out?, you could do a very easy rough repair by simply filling the hole with hot-glue, then thread the screw in while the glue is cooling and setting, then remove the screw and refit the body, don't over-tighten. I'm sure others here have their own methods to suggest.

Re the traction tyres, they are most likely the original plastic ones, and they do go very hard. I have found easiest way to remove those is with a pair of fine side-cutters, and simply cut the tyre off. ie using the points of the cutters to 'pinch' the tyre, just try not to scratch the wheel. If you are lucky, you can cause the tyre to buckle out of the groove and then you can use a very small screwdriver, tweezers etc to get it off the wheel. Fitting a new rubber tyre is very easy.

Best.
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Soest  
#34 Posted : 04 November 2018 03:50:56(UTC)
Soest


Joined: 05/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 188
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Thanks, Cookie. Actually the top part of the casting which forms a bit of a tower to house the threads is canted slightly from the vertical. So the screw opening in the body does not line up with the threads and the screw will not fit. I suppose I could cut away some of the body to allow the proper angle to the threads but am reluctant to do so. As it is the body fits quite well on the chassis but I think there is some slight misalignment which causes the body to bear on the manual reversing lever and impede automatic reversing. I should spend a bit more time with a magnifying glass and see if my diagnosis is correct. The locomotive reverses better with the body removed, hence my feeling that the misalignment causes some interference. In the meantime it runs very well forward but tends to spin it's wheels a bit over turnouts, presumably because of the hard tires. I will have another go at the traction tires. Thanks again.

Mike
Why do grown men play with trains?
Their wives insist they are insane
But their dreams they won't let down the drain
'Cause there ain't no thing so hard to lose as those disappearing railway blues.
Offline kiwiAlan  
#35 Posted : 04 November 2018 12:05:46(UTC)
kiwiAlan

United Kingdom   
Joined: 23/07/2014(UTC)
Posts: 5,322
Location: ENGLAND, Didcot
Originally Posted by: Soest Go to Quoted Post
Thanks, Cookie. Actually the top part of the casting which forms a bit of a tower to house the threads is canted slightly from the vertical. So the screw opening in the body does not line up with the threads and the screw will not fit.


That sounds like it may have been dropped, possibly while the body was removed, and landed on that 'tower' which has then bent under the impact.

I wouldn't try and straighten it, it is too likely to break off. The best you could do would be to drill it and fit a thread insert. But that would be a risky operation if you don't have suitable devices to hold everything square and steady.

Offline cookee_nz  
#36 Posted : 06 November 2018 04:22:27(UTC)
cookee_nz

New Zealand   
Joined: 31/12/2010(UTC)
Posts: 3,509
Location: Paremata, Wellington
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Soest Go to Quoted Post
Thanks, Cookie. Actually the top part of the casting which forms a bit of a tower to house the threads is canted slightly from the vertical. So the screw opening in the body does not line up with the threads and the screw will not fit.


That sounds like it may have been dropped, possibly while the body was removed, and landed on that 'tower' which has then bent under the impact.

I wouldn't try and straighten it, it is too likely to break off. The best you could do would be to drill it and fit a thread insert. But that would be a risky operation if you don't have suitable devices to hold everything square and steady.



Or, the body itself has warped, not exactly unknown with Märklin plastic.

Some photos would sure help
Cookee
Wellington
NZ image
Offline Soest  
#37 Posted : 13 November 2018 03:57:54(UTC)
Soest


Joined: 05/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 188
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
I cut the old traction tires off with an Exacto knife and replaced them - no more wheelspin. Thanks for comments and suggestions.

Mike
Why do grown men play with trains?
Their wives insist they are insane
But their dreams they won't let down the drain
'Cause there ain't no thing so hard to lose as those disappearing railway blues.
Offline jvuye  
#38 Posted : 13 November 2018 08:04:34(UTC)
jvuye

Belgium   
Joined: 01/03/2008(UTC)
Posts: 2,848
Location: South Western France
Originally Posted by: kiwiAlan Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Soest Go to Quoted Post
Thanks, Cookie. Actually the top part of the casting which forms a bit of a tower to house the threads is canted slightly from the vertical. So the screw opening in the body does not line up with the threads and the screw will not fit.


That sounds like it may have been dropped, possibly while the body was removed, and landed on that 'tower' which has then bent under the impact.

I wouldn't try and straighten it, it is too likely to break off. The best you could do would be to drill it and fit a thread insert. But that would be a risky operation if you don't have suitable devices to hold everything square and steady.



Agreed.
Probably best to be left alone.
However, a simple precautionnary measure: when putting the body back on the chassis, tighten the screw just enough to keep it in place.
If you tighten it all the way you will see the body starting to bend...
Cheers
Jacques
Jacques Vuye aka Dr.Eisenbahn
Once a vandal, learned to be better and had great success!
Offline Soest  
#39 Posted : 13 November 2018 20:18:41(UTC)
Soest


Joined: 05/09/2009(UTC)
Posts: 188
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Thanks, Jacques. I'm afraid I can't even get the screw to catch with the body because the threads are at an angle from the vertical. The body stays on quite well without the screw but I suspect there is enough misalignment to put pressure on the reversing lever, resulting in the locomotive not reversing with the body on. I think my options are to try and bend the lever, which might do more harm than good, or to relieve the body around the lever with a nail file.

Mike
Why do grown men play with trains?
Their wives insist they are insane
But their dreams they won't let down the drain
'Cause there ain't no thing so hard to lose as those disappearing railway blues.
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