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Offline Yumgui  
#101 Posted : 25 April 2013 00:04:18(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: Sparrow Go to Quoted Post
If anyone might be interested, I have this one for sale on Ebay just now.

Way off-topic ... ^^ Glare

Edited by user 06 May 2013 20:35:47(UTC)  | Reason: Mods: please delete this post if/when user is redirected ... tx !

If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
Offline Sparrow  
#102 Posted : 25 April 2013 01:02:33(UTC)
Sparrow

Spain   
Joined: 05/09/2011(UTC)
Posts: 219
Hey, by no means I was trying to make a business out of this, or hijack the thread.
Just happened I came across the topic and thought it might be of interest.
I´ll delete my previous post just now.
Sorry. Blushing
Best regards.
Luis.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#103 Posted : 06 May 2013 06:14:45(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,829
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi,

I have purchased a couple of wine wagons as a result of this topic.

Here they are. The Trix twin-tank car model on the left is similar to, but not the same as, Trix model #23938. This car represents the period between 1946 and 1952, before DB lettering was introduced on the German railways. This car came with a 5 wagon Trix set #23859.

The model on the right (Simotra) is from a Marklin SNCF set #47892, representing French rolling stock, also of the early 1950s.

http://www.qldrail.net/altkloster/47892-t23859winetanks800-2.jpg

regards
Kimball

HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline winetrains  
#104 Posted : 06 May 2013 12:35:52(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hi,

I have purchased a couple of wine wagons as a result of this topic.

Here they are. The Trix twin-tank car model on the left is similar to, but not the same as, Trix model #23938. This car represents the period between 1946 and 1952, before DB lettering was introduced on the German railways. This car came with a 5 wagon Trix set #23859.

The model on the right (Simotra) is from a Marklin SNCF set #47892, representing French rolling stock, also of the early 1950s.

http://www.qldrail.net/altkloster/47892-t23859winetanks800-2.jpg

regards
Kimball



Thankyou Kimball, really nice photos and sadly I don't have either of them. But I am now on the lookout. It is difficult for a wine wagon collector to pick up individual wine wagons when they are part of a mixed box set. I fancy the wine wagon in Marklin's 3 car set 44140 but am reluctant to fork out money for the whole set.

I like to leave readers with a photo and posted below is an HO scale wine wagon that I know nothing about. I can't be sure whether it was made by a manufacturer or home built in someone's garage. Happy to receive opinions from anyone.

Regards, David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
a.JPG
Offline kimballthurlow  
#105 Posted : 07 May 2013 02:31:45(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,829
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi David,

The underframe of your unknown car 'appears' to be similar to your Electrotren models. But you will be able to tell easily no doubt. Comparison with other models will be the best judge.

Regards my two wine wagons, I do have an interest in early 1950s wagons, so I was eager to purchase a complete set where it also added to my favoured stock. The impetus was to have a couple of wine wagons.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline mattj70  
#106 Posted : 07 May 2013 02:42:35(UTC)
mattj70

United States   
Joined: 19/03/2010(UTC)
Posts: 620
Location: Hudson FL
great collection here! wonderful pics!
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Offline Yumgui  
#107 Posted : 08 May 2013 20:26:49(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
Hi David,

No clue on the above unknown ... ^^ :/ Will keep an eye out though ...

Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post
Let me introduce you to Sachsenmodelle; a prolific manufacturer of HO scale wine wagons. My collection includes 47 of these wagons, from France, Germany, Prussia, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary and Italy. Generally not expensive, although plastic not wooden. Some photographs posted below.

David

First Sachsenmodelle arrived thanks to this thread (few others in the post atm ...), and to my dismay I thought one ladder was broken ...

But, in fact, seems a short ladder on one side is part of the design (and hard to see on frontal shots), which I haven't seen on other models ... can you confirm, or are there others with this particularity ?

Also, I assume the reference number changes with or without brakeman's cab ... here's a shot of 16020 (differing from your 14102):

Yum Tongue
Yumgui attached the following image(s):
DSCN2485_mod.jpg
DSCN2486_mod.jpg
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
Offline kimballthurlow  
#108 Posted : 08 May 2013 23:18:03(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,829
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Yumgui Go to Quoted Post
....

First Sachsenmodelle arrived thanks to this thread (few others in the post atm ...), and to my dismay I thought one ladder was broken ...

But, in fact, seems a short ladder on one side is part of the design (and hard to see on frontal shots), which I haven't seen on other models ... can you confirm, or are there others with this particularity ?

Also, I assume the reference number changes with or without brakeman's cab ... here's a shot of 16020......
Yum Tongue


Hi Yum,

Your photo of 16020 is very interesting, as it reveals clearly the method of holding the barrels onto the wagon platform.
The fine metal straps lock around a plastic tongue on the sole plate, quite ingenious. Are these straps real metal, or plastic?

The Marklin and Trix wagons with wooden barrel, have a slightly more complex strapping. Each real metal strap end locks into a butterfly which is underneath the wagon. This is OK, but where it right angles around the sole plate, it can break.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline winetrains  
#109 Posted : 09 May 2013 07:19:36(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Yumgui Go to Quoted Post
Hi David,

No clue on the above unknown ... ^^ :/ Will keep an eye out though ...

Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post
Let me introduce you to Sachsenmodelle; a prolific manufacturer of HO scale wine wagons. My collection includes 47 of these wagons, from France, Germany, Prussia, Switzerland, Austria, Hungary and Italy. Generally not expensive, although plastic not wooden. Some photographs posted below.

David

First Sachsenmodelle arrived thanks to this thread (few others in the post atm ...), and to my dismay I thought one ladder was broken ...

But, in fact, seems a short ladder on one side is part of the design (and hard to see on frontal shots), which I haven't seen on other models ... can you confirm, or are there others with this particularity ?

Also, I assume the reference number changes with or without brakeman's cab ... here's a shot of 16020 (differing from your 14102):

Yum Tongue


Hi Yum, the majority of my Sachsenmodelle bi-foudre wine wagons have a full-length ladder leading to the top of the barrels on one side, and a short ladder leading to the platform area between the two barrels. Interestingly, Marklin's better quality bi-foudre wine wagons have only a single full length ladder on one side of the wagon; nothing on the other side. Same applies with the quality VB bi-foudre wine wagons. However, Marklin's more inferior wine wagons (308, 4510) have a full length ladder on each side of the wagon. I think it is practical to have a short ladder leading to the platform. I'll have to check my photos of real-life wine wagons to see how ladders were used.

The two wagons in the photos below is another example of Sachsenmodelle producing a version with cab and without cab, however in this case it sold as a 2-wagon pack.

Regards, David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
14105a.JPG
14105b.JPG
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Offline Yumgui  
#110 Posted : 09 May 2013 16:04:56(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post

The fine metal straps lock around a plastic tongue on the sole plate, quite ingenious. Are these straps real metal, or plastic?

regards
Kimball

Hiya Kimball,

The straps are metal and continuous with the name plate ... please see another shot below.

In fact, aside from the couplers and wheels, it's the only other metal part on the whole wagon ;P

Yum Cool

Yumgui attached the following image(s):
DSCN2493_mod.jpg
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Yumgui
Offline Yumgui  
#111 Posted : 09 May 2013 16:19:02(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
David,

As my first VB 36 arrived a few days ago, I had a look back at one of your earlier posts to compare :
https://www.marklin-user...e-wagons.aspx#post393938

I also came up with a VB Catalog circa 1955 which shows two types of "bi-foudre" (double barrel) wagons; VB 36 and 61

So have a look down at the pix, and tell me what you think please ...

Aside from the different colors, or the presence of a "guérite" (brakeman's cab), these are the differences I see :

VB 36 : running plate to the right with additional text on chassis
VB 61 : running plate to the left

VB 36 : Upper walk has 5 boards (my ladder looks modified ...)
VB 61 : Upper walk has 6 or more boards

VB 36 : old style couplers (mine, unfortunately, was mounted with Märklin couplers : Bügelkupplung Typ 4.2)
VB 61 : new style couplers

Yum Wink

Edited by user 12 May 2013 21:41:52(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Yumgui attached the following image(s):
00_DSCN2497_mod lite_VB 36.jpg
VB 36_mod.jpg
VB 61_mod.jpg
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
Offline Yumgui  
#112 Posted : 09 May 2013 16:31:21(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
Here's a few more shots of the lettering details ...

According to les trains de guillaume website, the lettering was initially painted by hand and farmed out to various "concierges" (building watchperson), including the one that supervised the V & B premises, and to art students at the Beaux Arts school ...

Man, that writing is SMALL !

Yum Tongue

PS: By the way, what I wrote in the post above, does not jibe with the reference numbers on that same website ... I have sent an email to the site owner to try and get any further info ...

Edited by user 18 May 2013 21:55:29(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

Yumgui attached the following image(s):
DSCN2503_mod lite.jpg
DSCN2509_mod lite.jpg
DSCN2510_mod lite.jpg
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Yumgui
Offline winetrains  
#113 Posted : 09 May 2013 21:56:04(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Yumgui Go to Quoted Post
Here's a few more shots of the lettering details ...

According to les trains de guillaume website, the lettering was initially painted by hand and farmed out to various "concierges" (building watchman), including the one that supervised the V & B premises, and to art students at the Beaux Arts school ...

Man, that writing is SMALL !

Yum Tongue

PS: By the way, what I wrote in the post above, does not jibe with the reference numbers on that same website ... I have sent an email to the site owner to try and get any further info ...


Yum, according to my records:

VB 36 is a brown SNCF bi-foudre "Cazanave" without cab (1948-1955)
VB 37 is a brown SNCF bi-foudre "Cazanave" with cab (1948-1957)
VB 43 is a mono-foudre SNCF "Grap" with cab that comes in grey and brown (1948-1957)
VB 61 is a bi-foudre SNCF "Cazanave" that comes in brown, red, light blue, yellow and silver (1950-1958)
VB 62 is a mono-foudre SNCF "STE des VINS de France" in metal that comes in Yellow, red, brown and silver (1950-1958)

They are nice to collect if one can find them.

Posted below are photos of two 2011/2012 Era 3 Makette SNCF HO scale wine wagons which come in a box set. Amazing the number of manufacturers that made or still make wine wagons. And concerning given how expensive it is to build a collection. I told my wife 3 years ago that I had most of them when my collection was around 80 wagons.

David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
Makette 4520.JPG
Makette 4521.JPG
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Offline Yumgui  
#114 Posted : 10 May 2013 20:33:26(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
Hi David,

Nice Makette wagons ! Just learned of a new brand ...

Thanks also for the VB info, but what my catalog tells me is that the ones you posted are version 61 and not 36 ... TBC ^^

Anyway, it's raining wine wagons here last days ...
For info, some other JL and VB wagons which you may have already but haven't posted :

01 - JL : unmarked double barrel wagon, looks like VB chassis and couplers ...
Note : JL = Jean Laffont produced hand made items from 1949-1972, and collaborated with JR Allard (Au Pullman)

02 - JL : mono barrel wagon marked "Postillon" (odd chassis, missing strapping and couplers are incomplete ...)

03 - VB : ref n° 41-T, red version (T = "Tonneaux" (barrels) I believe ...)

Yum Wink

PS: One very nifty detail about VB/JL wagons is that the buffers are spring loaded ... !

Edited by user 11 May 2013 09:42:44(UTC)  | Reason: Spring loaded buffers ...

Yumgui attached the following image(s):
01_DSCN2465_VB-JL_mod lite.jpg
02_DSCN2464_VB-JL_mod lite.jpg
03_DSCN2466_VB 41T_mod2_lite.jpg
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Yumgui
Offline Yumgui  
#115 Posted : 10 May 2013 20:38:23(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
... And some other Electrotren wagons which you probably have already but haven't posted :

01 - Electrotren 801

02 - Electrotren 808/2

03 - Electrotren 1104

Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post
I look forward to starting a debate here, but I will argue that Electrotren has made the best HO scale wooden barrel wine wagons.

Along with VB, I would agree with you about these having great character and presence ...

Yum ThumpUp

Edited by user 24 August 2013 16:02:27(UTC)  | Reason: Ref: Electrotren 808/2

Yumgui attached the following image(s):
04_DSCN2459_Electrotren 801_mod lite.jpg
05_DSCN2458_Electrotren 808-1_mod lite.jpg
06_DSCN2466_Electrotren 1104_mod1_lite.jpg
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
thanks 1 user liked this useful post by Yumgui
Offline kimballthurlow  
#116 Posted : 11 May 2013 00:44:00(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,829
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Yum,
Just love those JL and VB wagons. Particularly the character of the 'tonneau' gondola. And to be able to purchase one after all these years, with the barrels complete, is amazing.

Yes, I agree that the Electrotren have a particular charm. The embellished lettering on the original must be a cultural thing. (Think of the taxis in places like the Phillipines also).

About David's great barrel debate, I personally believe the Marklin/Trix barrels to be truer models, because the strapping on the Electrotren is overdone. However, the M/T lacks any strap contrast to the barrel, so probably misses on that count. Overall therfore I prefer the M/T.

I did purchase one of the Electrotren Frederico Paternina wagons, and the wheels are shot (disengaged from the axle), so OK, I thought I could replace the wheels and axles with spare Marklin or Fleischmann. However, I cannot dismantle the wagon, even though it is screwed together. I cannot dislodge the screws, so I have set this wagon aside for my wine cabinet, simply as a display model.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline Markus Schild  
#117 Posted : 14 May 2013 13:03:44(UTC)
Markus Schild

Germany   
Joined: 14/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 1,746
Location: Wurttemberg
Hi David,

It seems to be very hard to show a wine-car you don't own.

This one comes from GEM (Giocattoli Elettro Meccanici) in Milan, Italy. The manufacturer is better known as BIAGGI for his tin-plate trains in 0 and 1-gauge made from the 1950s to the 1980s. But BIAGGI also produced H0-gauge trains for a short period after WWII.
The chassis is made of die-cast, the barrels of wood.

GEM wine wagon

Regards

Markus

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Offline winetrains  
#118 Posted : 14 May 2013 23:08:02(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
Hi David,

It seems to be very hard to show a wine-car you don't own.

This one comes from GEM (Giocattoli Elettro Meccanici) in Milan, Italy. The manufacturer is better known as BIAGGI for his tin-plate trains in 0 and 1-gauge made from the 1950s to the 1980s. But BIAGGI also produced H0-gauge trains for a short period after WWII.
The chassis is made of die-cast, the barrels of wood.

GEM wine wagon

Regards

Markus



Thankyou Markus, I certainly don't have all the wine wagons (yet). Yum recently showed photos of three top notch wagons which I don't have, and now you have shown a beauty as well. Italian HO scale wine wagons seem hard to come by. I have already posted photos of my ACME, Pocher and Sachsenmodelle Italian wine wagons in this topic; the Pocher wagons are my favourite. The only one I have not posted is a Liliput Ermefer tank wagon that I now show pictured below. I will keep an eye out for GEM and Biaggi wagons.

Regards, David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
225807.JPG
Offline winetrains  
#119 Posted : 18 May 2013 11:51:28(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Pictured below are five wine wagons I received this week. The Trix wagon with 3 barrels was manufactured in 2001 and the Trix box wagon in 2004. The Electrotren tank wagons are large. You will need plenty of shelf space if you plan to collect these big boys.

Unfortunately I was not aware at the time of purchase that the pair of Trix wagons are Trix Express. According to Wikipedia,Trix express was first introduced at the Leipzig exhibition in the spring of 1935 and was the main model train product range of the Trix of Nuremberg Germany, currently owned by Märklin. During WW2, the company was forced to move to Britain and founded the Trix Ltd London, which initially used the same system. This brand was called TTR (Trix Twin Railway). Like other systems introduced before WW2, it used a third (centre) rail as a means to supply current to the models. Unlike other systems, such as Märklin H0 and Hornby Railways, the outer tracks were insulated, using the centre rail as a common pick-up. This allowed the independent operation of two model engines on the same track and even three if overhead catenary wires were used. Apart from the centre pick-up, the Trix Express system also retained the larger wheel flanges, customary in the 1930s, right till the recent end, making derailments rather uncommon, but at the same time making their rolling stock incompatible with more modern two-rail NEM systems. The Trix Express system still has a large following in countries such as United Kingdom, Germany and the Netherlands with active clubs.

Thus, beware, my pair of Trix Express wagons are useless, except for look at on a shelf.


Regards, David

Edited by user 19 May 2013 20:17:34(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

winetrains attached the following image(s):
33533.JPG
33834.JPG
5819k.JPG
5821k.JPG
5870k.JPG
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#120 Posted : 18 May 2013 12:11:27(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,829
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi David,

Very nice wagons.

Your collection includes wagons for a wide time-span.
The ADAMS tanker is one of those for which you have models from earlier times.
ERMEFA is another one I think.
The PUJAS French tanks are another one.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
Offline winetrains  
#121 Posted : 18 May 2013 12:27:17(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hi David,

Very nice wagons.

Your collection includes wagons for a wide time-span.
The ADAMS tanker is one of those for which you have models from earlier times.
ERMEFA is another one I think.
The PUJAS French tanks are another one.

regards
Kimball


Thanks Kimball,

There is no shortage of these wine wagons.
ADAMS: REE, Tillig, Electrotren, Fleischmann and LS Models.
Ermefer: REE, Liliput, Sachsenmodelle and Schicht
Pujas: Piko, REE, Sachsenmodelle and Schicht

Adams and Ermefer are all tank wagons in my collection.
Pujas are barrel types. Interestingly there is an L Pujas and J Pujas. The Piko wagon is the former.

Regards, David
Offline winetrains  
#122 Posted : 19 May 2013 12:45:35(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Some interesting wine wagons pictured below.

Firstly, an SNCF ROCO tank wine wagon. Dubonnet is a sweet, wine-based aperitif. It is a blend of fortified wine, herbs, and spices (including a small amount of quinine) with fermentation being stopped by the addition of alcohol. Dubonnet was first sold in 1846 by Joseph Dubonnet, in response to a competition run by the French Government to find a way of persuading French Foreign Legionnaires in North Africa to drink quinine. Quinine combats malaria but is very bitter. The brand-name Dubonnet was taken over by Pernod Ricard in 1976. It was re-popularised in late 1970s by an advertising campaign starring Pia Zadora.

Next, the only Liliput box wine wagon I have encountered, the rest being tank wagons. It is a smallish wagon but looks great behind a steam train. I ended up buying 3 of them at 10 Euro each (new). A steal.

Finally, an Electrotren Tio Pepe box wagon. Tío Pepe (named after one of the founders' uncle) is a brand of Sherry, the best selling brand in the world. It is best known for its fino style of dry sherry made from the palomino grape. The Tio Pepe brand is owned by the Gonzalez Byass Sherry house.

Regards, David


winetrains attached the following image(s):
4337F.JPG
Liliput 224801.JPG
1994.JPG
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Offline Yumgui  
#123 Posted : 19 May 2013 21:58:34(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
Hey Kimball,
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
I did purchase one of the Electrotren Frederico Paternina wagons, and the wheels are shot (disengaged from the axle), so OK, I thought I could replace the wheels and axles with spare Marklin or Fleischmann. However, I cannot dismantle the wagon, even though it is screwed together. I cannot dislodge the screws, so I have set this wagon aside for my wine cabinet, simply as a display model

Nothing some WD40 cannot handle ? No reason why you cannot unscrew those ...
Just be careful that the oil doesn't "jump" to the wood barrels ... makes for nasty spots on bare wood casks !

Hallo Markus,
Originally Posted by: Markus Schild Go to Quoted Post
This one comes from GEM (Giocattoli Elettro Meccanici) in Milan, Italy. The manufacturer is better known as BIAGGI for his tin-plate trains in 0 and 1-gauge made from the 1950s to the 1980s. But BIAGGI also produced H0-gauge trains for a short period after WWII.
The chassis is made of die-cast, the barrels of wood.

Wonderful wagon, again I have learned of another manufacturer ... thanks for that ^^ !

And hello again David,
Besides the very nice Tio Pepe wagons, reading about Dubonnet, this brings back many memories about "Lillet", another Gasgogne region "aperitif" which we would "sip" with my grandparents in happier times ... any wagons you may have associated with this wine product ?

And further, BR01097 ...
Originally Posted by: BR01097 Go to Quoted Post
For some strange reason I was expecting to see just a whole slew of the collector's variations on the "Bordeaux" model #308.

Considering the above, and in order to attempt to appreciate the "character" and "presence" of these various wagons, I thought it might be interesting to compare the classic Märklin model 308/4510 (which everyone should at least have one copy of) with the many others already shown here :

Märklin 308/4510 model (always on the right in photos below) compared to :
1 - SachsenModelle 16020
2 - VB 36 (Character/presence here is assured by shear height ..)
3 - JEP 6680 (Dito above ...)
4 - Electrotren 808/1 (Character/presence here is assured by shear length ..)
5 - JR Allard/Pullman 120B
6 - JL Postillon
7 - And Märklin compared to itself : Primex CIWL 4546 (Same mold ?)
8 - Märklin 4432 (Wow, this Märklin model is big !)

Yum Tongue
Yumgui attached the following image(s):
Comparative 01_SaMo 16020 + VB 36.jpg_lite.jpg
Comparative 02_JEP 6680 + Electrotren 808-1_lite.jpg
Comparative 03_JRA 120B + JL Postillon_lite.jpg
Comparative 04_Primex 4546 + Märklin 4432_lite.jpg
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
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User is suspended until 23/03/4752 12:54:35(UTC) Mulldog Lemon  
#124 Posted : 20 May 2013 00:07:45(UTC)
Mulldog Lemon

Australia   
Joined: 27/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 635
I'm quite impressed by the detail of all the Electrotren models.
UserPostedImage
Offline winetrains  
#125 Posted : 20 May 2013 12:21:41(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Following on from Yum....
winetrains attached the following image(s):
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Offline winetrains  
#126 Posted : 20 May 2013 12:35:05(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Mulldog Lemon Go to Quoted Post
I'm quite impressed by the detail of all the Electrotren models.


Photos below of more Electrotren box wagons to enjoy, in addition to those I have shown earlier. They are worth collecting.

Regards, David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
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Offline Bigdaddynz  
#127 Posted : 20 May 2013 12:44:50(UTC)
Bigdaddynz

New Zealand   
Joined: 17/09/2006(UTC)
Posts: 16,656
Location: New Zealand
Great topic! ThumpUp Thanks for all the pictures.

I never knew there were so many wine cars made!
Offline nevw  
#128 Posted : 20 May 2013 23:36:07(UTC)
nevw

Australia   
Joined: 27/08/2005(UTC)
Posts: 11,002
Location: Murrumba Downs QLD
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Great topic! ThumpUp Thanks for all the pictures.

I never knew there were so many wine cars made!


Wot he sed.RollEyes

NN

wearing the Pink Pinny, which is hard to see and now have 2 new shiny tin Hips that is badly in Need of Repair matching tin shoulders
and a hose pipe on the aorta
Junior member of the Banana Club, a reformist and an old Goat with a Bad memory, loafing around
User is suspended until 23/03/4752 12:54:35(UTC) Mulldog Lemon  
#129 Posted : 21 May 2013 00:05:49(UTC)
Mulldog Lemon

Australia   
Joined: 27/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 635
Originally Posted by: nevw Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Great topic! ThumpUp Thanks for all the pictures.

I never knew there were so many wine cars made!


Wot he sed.RollEyes

NN



There's five wagons coming from Fleischmann:
Wienkesselwagons

Blushing era II of course...
UserPostedImage
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#130 Posted : 21 May 2013 00:56:11(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,829
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Arlo,

Those F ones look good.
They have slotted that into the market well, I would think.
The wine box cars are very similar to the ones that ACME have released lately for the FS in era III and IV.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
User is suspended until 23/03/4752 12:54:35(UTC) Mulldog Lemon  
#131 Posted : 21 May 2013 22:58:22(UTC)
Mulldog Lemon

Australia   
Joined: 27/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 635
Originally Posted by: kimballthurlow Go to Quoted Post
Hi Arlo,

Those F ones look good.
They have slotted that into the market well, I would think.
The wine box cars are very similar to the ones that ACME have released lately for the FS in era III and IV.

regards
Kimball


I'll get a least one of them, to see how it looks.
Not following the other eras, I'm afraid. These five are from four different railways, which is nice.ThumpUp

UserPostedImage
User is suspended until 23/03/4752 12:54:35(UTC) Mulldog Lemon  
#132 Posted : 21 May 2013 23:04:23(UTC)
Mulldog Lemon

Australia   
Joined: 27/11/2010(UTC)
Posts: 635
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Great thread! ThumpUp


Thankyou Biedmatt,

I have posted below a photo of a Marklin wine wagon that has sliding doors and wooden barrels inside that contained bulk wine. It is a Swiss wagon made between 2000-2001.

Regards, David


Not sure if you're aware that this is part of a 2-pc set (42762). The other car is the type with two large strapped barrels. Swiss again, not sure if it's the same wine brand.
UserPostedImage
Offline winetrains  
#133 Posted : 22 May 2013 13:57:20(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Mulldog Lemon Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: nevw Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: Bigdaddynz Go to Quoted Post
Great topic! ThumpUp Thanks for all the pictures.

I never knew there were so many wine cars made!


Wot he sed.RollEyes

NN



There's five wagons coming from Fleischmann:
Wienkesselwagons

Blushing era II of course...


Photos below of three 2012 Fleischmann wine wagons.

545501, German, Era 2, DRG railways
545502, German, Era 1, K.Bay.Sts.B railways
545503, Swiss, Era 2, SBB-CFF railways

I will now order the Fleischmann 2013 wine wagons that I do not have thanks to Mulldog, namely 545504, 545506 and 545507.

Regards, David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
545501.JPG
545502.JPG
545503.JPG
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Offline winetrains  
#134 Posted : 26 May 2013 10:24:40(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Mulldog Lemon Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post
Originally Posted by: biedmatt Go to Quoted Post
Great thread! ThumpUp


Thankyou Biedmatt,

I have posted below a photo of a Marklin wine wagon that has sliding doors and wooden barrels inside that contained bulk wine. It is a Swiss wagon made between 2000-2001.

Regards, David


Not sure if you're aware that this is part of a 2-pc set (42762). The other car is the type with two large strapped barrels. Swiss again, not sure if it's the same wine brand.


Thanks Biedmatt, but I think you will find it is part of the Marklin 46762 2-piece set pictured below. I double checked on Google.

Regards, David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
46762a.JPG
46762b.JPG
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Offline winetrains  
#135 Posted : 26 May 2013 12:44:26(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Colleagues, a collection of real-life European wine wagons photographed below from a number of sources.

Regards, David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
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Offline winetrains  
#136 Posted : 26 May 2013 12:53:48(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
And some more..

Regards, David
Offline winetrains  
#137 Posted : 26 May 2013 12:55:22(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Oops..
winetrains attached the following image(s):
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Offline rmsailor  
#138 Posted : 26 May 2013 18:07:04(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 477
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
Nice pictures.

Bob M.
Offline Yumgui  
#139 Posted : 27 May 2013 22:03:55(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
Great photos David !

The strapping techniques underlined by Kimball above are all there to see ....
Also, I see now your interest in the Italian vertical wine cask concept (quite innovative) and I really get a kick out of the oceans of barrels :

https://www.marklin-user...um/resource.ashx?p=14587
https://www.marklin-user...um/resource.ashx?p=14609
https://www.marklin-user...um/resource.ashx?p=14612

To this end, and with "character" in mind, I will harp again on a comparative between the Electrotren 1104 and other VB models already shown :

1 - Electrotren 1104 compared with VB 41T

2 - Electrotren 1104 compared with VB 647T

Dumb question comes to mind concerning the 1104; how the hell did they keep those beautiful yellow and red barrels (marked "Coñac" and "Vino") from rolling around during transport Confused

What ya think ... ;)

Yum Cool
Yumgui attached the following image(s):
Comparative 06_Electrotren 1104 + VB 41T_lite.jpg
Comparative 07_Electrotren 1104 + VB 647T_lite.jpg
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#140 Posted : 28 May 2013 00:51:50(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,829
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Originally Posted by: Yumgui Go to Quoted Post
.......

Dumb question comes to mind concerning the 1104; how the hell did they keep those beautiful yellow and red barrels (marked "Coñac" and "Vino") from rolling around during transport Confused

What ya think ... ;)

Yum Cool


Hi Yum,

Thanks for the photo comparisons, very nice.

I have some ideas about the rolling barrels. Open wagons had wood floors. This enabled large chocks of wood to be skew nailed to the floors on a temporary basis to retain various loads. On a less than full load of barrels, timber could have been used to chock them. Of course the optimum solution is to have the barrels tightly fill the wagon so they could not roll.

Over time, wagon wood floors became quite used/abused, and began to disintergrate. On an empty wagon, it is a very nice feature to model, using the ultimate weathering technique.

Of course it is possible that the Electrotren came with a barrel frame, which has been lost.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline winetrains  
#141 Posted : 01 June 2013 08:22:39(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Four interesting wine wagons pictured below.

Firstly, three box wagons from a Spanish company K* which I had never heard of before. The website on the box is www.ktrain.es.
Secondly, the first Marklin HO scale tank wine wagon I have encountered, an SNCF wagon that operated in 1955 and which came in a 4 car freight set number 47892. I was lucky enough to buy the wine wagon without having to pay for the whole set.

Regards, David

Edited by user 01 June 2013 12:55:31(UTC)  | Reason: Not specified

winetrains attached the following image(s):
0710C.JPG
0710D.JPG
0711B.JPG
47892.JPG
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Offline rmsailor  
#142 Posted : 04 June 2013 09:07:30(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 477
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
Hi David,

It is not often that you hear about an established manufacturer that you have never heard about but this is the case with ktrains. Looking at their web-site they have been around since the year 2000 and the range while small does contain some interesting items.
Thanks for the pictures and the information.

Bob M.
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Offline Yumgui  
#143 Posted : 09 June 2013 22:19:46(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
Hello again,

Kimball, thanks for the "chocks" info, will have to consider adding those to the Electrotren model ...

And David, thanks for the Ktrains info ... great info for the many poorly known but skillful manufacturers still working at it !

OK, while participation time has unfortunately been limited for me here lately, and while this thread is technically about HO scale ... I will follow up on David's "large scale" post with these three O scale 1/43 well worn wagons dug out from boxes :

- Hornby/Meccano 4 barrel wagon (am sure Kimball will be appalled by the strapping technique ^^ ;)
- Hornby/Meccano 2 barrel wagon
- BLZ (Bourdeaux, L'Heure, Zedda) mono barrel wagon

While all three seem to be from late 40s to early 50's, I have no real reference numbers to speak of ... so if you have any info, please let me know ... ^^ ;)

Enjoy,

Y Wink

Edited by user 10 June 2013 19:26:16(UTC)  | Reason: usual adjustment stuff ... + better photo of first wagon

Yumgui attached the following image(s):
DSCN2696_mod_Hornby 4 barrels_1950s.jpg
DSCN2593_mod_Hornby bi-foudre 1950s.jpg
DSCN2578_mod_BLZ mono foudre.jpg
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Offline winetrains  
#144 Posted : 10 June 2013 12:44:28(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Originally Posted by: Yumgui Go to Quoted Post
Hello again,

Kimball, thanks for the "chocks" info, will have to consider adding those to the Electrotren model ...

And David, thanks for the Ktrains info ... great info for the many poorly known but skillful manufacturers still working at it !

OK, while participation time has unfortunately been limited for me here lately, and while this thread is technically about HO scale ... I will follow up on David's "large scale" post with these three O scale 1/43 well worn wagons dug out from boxes :

- Hornby/Meccano 4 barrel wagon (am sure Kimball will be appalled by the strapping technique ^^ ;)
- Hornby/Meccano 2 barrel wagon
- BLZ (Bourdeaux, L'Heure, Zedda) mono barrel wagon

While all three seem to be from late 40s to early 50's, I have no real reference numbers to speak of ... so if you have any info, please let me know ... ^^ ;)

Enjoy,

Y Wink


Thanks for the pictures Yum,

I would really like to collect O-scale wine wagons because they have great character and style. Unfortunately, they are large and take up a lot of shelf space which is now becoming a premium in my wine cellar. I have had to move my old Triang carriages to the garage to make room for new purchases. Followers of this thread are posting photos of wine wagons I don't have, so I am now eagerly chasing them on eBay and elsewhere. Possibly we are all now bidding against each other on eBay. To put a stake in the ground for all lovers of wine wagons, I have lodged a request to the Guinness Book of Records for the largest collection of HO scale wine wagons, which currently stands at over 340 different wagons. I will keep you posted as to whether they take me seriously or not. If they do, hang on to your wagons as they will soar in value.

David
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Offline rmsailor  
#145 Posted : 10 June 2013 13:50:05(UTC)
rmsailor

Scotland   
Joined: 20/01/2006(UTC)
Posts: 477
Location: Kirkcaldy, Fife
0 gauge two and three barrelled wine wagons are produced by the Czech manufacturer "ETS". They also produce a Champagne Mercier covered van along with various beer vans. Details can be found their web-site www.ets.com.
ETS models are produced in the style of traditional tin-plate toys like Hornby, the current UK firms of Ace and Darstead or Lionel in America.

Bob M.
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Offline Yumgui  
#146 Posted : 10 June 2013 21:19:05(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
David,

Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post
I would really like to collect O-scale wine wagons because they have great character and style. Unfortunately, they are large and take up a lot of shelf space which is now becoming a premium in my wine cellar.

Yes, this a real problem for me too. It has gotten to the point that we are now looking for a new house ! *sigh*

Originally Posted by: winetrains Go to Quoted Post
Possibly we are all now bidding against each other on eBay.

Aha, so that's why a sudden spike has appeared on VB, Electrotren, SaMo wine wagons ... ? We should organize ... ;)
Coming from the annual Paris Model Show (Mondial du Modélisme) on Sunday, I noted prices for some "pristine" boxed VB models at between 150 to 250€, way above the avg. 70 to 90€ found on eBay for less pristine unboxed ones ...

Good luck there with the Guinness Book of Records ... and keep us posted ^^ ;)

---
Bob M,
Thanks for that info !
While I have gathered a small smattering of US brands like Lionel, Marx and MTH O scale trains, especially some splendid New Haven locos without any wine wagons (yet), I will look into the brands you mention now with "special" attention ...
---

As a follow-up on the above post, thought y'all might be interested in a story about the BLZ wagon. The "renovation" or rather "rehabilitation" process is dear to my heart and consists in rehabilitating old and forgotten trains to give them new life ... this activity, more than wine per se, is my primary attachment to this hobby. So, below you can find some comparative before-after photos of the BLZ wagon; a totally unexpected and rare find (still dunno what the missing platform at top of ladders should look like) ...

While I really liked the lighter patina of the "original" wood barrel, the task of carefully taking apart all the rusted metal parts (see exploded parts diagram below ;)) made a few drops of oil on the wood inevitable. Therefore, the cask was entirely treated with linseed oil which by experience will lighten with time while preserving the wood. I am not equipped (yet) with sand blaster and paint cabin so all rusted surfaces were simply brushed and oiled ... I prefer that any "rehabilitation" be limited to a strict minimum (without "cosmetics") to keep the object healthy without denaturing it completely; it has to keep it's patina !

Some results of the "rehabilitation" are; smooth running characteristics, straight ladders, seeing daylight between brake-house and barrel ... and that the O scale baby I found inside the brake-house, who in fact looks like an old man, has been freed ! ThumpUp

Plz enjoy,

Y Tongue
Yumgui attached the following image(s):
01_DSCN2529_mod.jpg
02_DSCN2540_mod2.jpg
03_DSCN2580_mod_BLZ mono foudre.jpg
DSCN2541_mod.jpg
DSCN2548_mod.jpg
DSCN2707_mod.jpg
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Offline kimballthurlow  
#147 Posted : 11 June 2013 00:50:29(UTC)
kimballthurlow

Australia   
Joined: 18/03/2007(UTC)
Posts: 5,829
Location: Brisbane, Australia
Hi Yum,

Thankyou for the description of the 'restoration' of the O scale wine wagon. I particularly love the photo of the parts that were removed for refurbishment.

I can understand your love of this type of hobby work, having done a couple of Hornby O scale wagons and coaches myself.

Regards the strapping on the Hornby, I am sure that was probably OK, even on the real one. Chains were also used to strap logs of timber.

To reassure yourself and David, I have not been bidding on any eBay items. I purchased only 5 items from retailers, and have completed my wine wagon acquisition to suit my layout style.

David, good luck with your Guinness thing.

I wrote an article on wine wagons generally, it was published in Mainline last moth. It is a journal of the National Model Railroad Association in Australia. If any of you want a digital copy of this article, I can send it to you.

regards
Kimball
HO Scale - Märklin (ep III and VI, C Track, digital) - 2 rail (USA and Australia) - 3 rail (English Hornby Dublo) - a few old O gauge.
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Offline winetrains  
#148 Posted : 17 June 2013 13:28:55(UTC)
winetrains


Joined: 03/08/2011(UTC)
Posts: 100
Location: Melbourne
Photos below of two recent Marklin acquisitions.

Regards, David
winetrains attached the following image(s):
4415g.JPG
4680g.JPG
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Offline Yumgui  
#149 Posted : 23 June 2013 22:39:59(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
Hello again,

Right on Kimball ... the best word is "restoration", no doubt ... just still needs a fine tuned limit on "over" or "under" restoration, for which I prefer the latter; no more than necessary imho !

In large O scale, here is a recently acquired and lightly "restored" (see after and before pix below) LR N° 2005 (Louis Roussy) three barrel wagon (1/60 scale in this odd case) ... I regret the lack of a more prototypical under-slung beam as can be seen here :
http://www.lestrainsdeguillaume...%20foudres&pixmrq=LR
... but I'll deal with it atm.

You can see another LR product posted here : https://www.marklin-users.net/fo...00--4001.aspx#post360589

Plz enjoy !

Y Tongue
Yumgui attached the following image(s):
DSCN2762_mod.jpg
DSCN2768_mod.jpg
DSCN2733_mod.jpg
DSCN2749_mod.jpg
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
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Offline Yumgui  
#150 Posted : 23 June 2013 22:47:05(UTC)
Yumgui

United States   
Joined: 20/03/2011(UTC)
Posts: 1,657
Location: Paris, France
... and back to HO scale, a wonderful VB RICARD wagon N° 35R ...

Not wine per se ... but a great liquor non the less ... ;)

Y Wink
Yumgui attached the following image(s):
DSCN2776_mod.jpg
DSCN2780_mod.jpg
If your M track is rusted ... DON'T throw it out !
Working on : http://www.arep.fr/en/#/welcome
Inspired by : http://www.nakedmarklin.com/ ... I am not alone in this universe, phew.
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